American Politics VIII: Dancin' with Manchin

[Soviet Socialist Kazakhstan]

Until capitalism is overthrown, this is all just smoke and mirrors protecting the ruling class, the robber barons of the bourgeoisie.

[Hukhalia]

Until capitalism is overthrown, this is all just smoke and mirrors protecting the ruling class, the robber barons of the bourgeoisie.

Pretty reductionist take. The machinations of capitalist politics can be studied and from a proper analysis once can derive a sense of historical progression, as well as the correct course of action for any forward-thinking left-wing movement.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Can we see the data that shows that's what made people flip?

Nah, I’d argue it was Terry opening his mouth and saying this on a debate stage. “ I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.” Yeah, the moms got PISSED at this. You don’t say that to a mother, her kid’s education is her concern.

Yeah I agree with that. I feel like parents should be more involved in education.

[Kowani]

New York state Democratic Party spent no money on ballot props that lost

The state Democratic Party spent no money on the three ballot proposals that it unexpectedly lost Tuesday that were intended to expand voting access, according to Chairman Jay Jacobs.

The party, he said, was not asked by the political campaign committee and associated groups advocating for the propositions to back their efforts, otherwise it would have supported the cause.

"There was no initiative that we were asked to do by anybody to begin a campaign or undertake the financing of or the running of the campaign on these issues," Jacobs said. "Maybe, in that sense, the ball was dropped, but I will tell you that is not something that came to my attention."

Senate Democrats reached out to the party around mid-October for help on supporting the ballot initiatives, according to state Sen. Michael Gianaris, a Queens Democrat who was responsible for one of the ballot questions. That outreach may call into question whether Jacobs, as he said, was aware of the party being asked to support the ballot questions.

"The question is why the Republican Party didn't need to be asked and who the chairman is waiting for to ask him to do something that is in the interest of the party," Gianaris said. "The Republican Party leadership seemed to know that they should do this."

Brooklyn NAACP President L. Joy Williams tweeted after publication of the story that she had been "actively trying to get people to engage on this for months."

Gov. Kathy Hochul, who took office in August, had limited, if any, public comment on the matter. The governor sent a tweet from her campaign account on the morning of Election Day to support the ballot questions and "strengthening our democracy." The governor's office directed comments on her position to her campaign, because they were in political nature. The campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

The state Senate had been advocating for the initiatives without much support, aside from $327,000 it spent of its own cash, according to the Senate majority's spokesman. The proposals on the ballot, which included opening a pathway to same-day voter registration and a "no excuse" vote-by-mail right, were pushed through the Legislature by Democratic senators.

The fate of the ballot questions became increasingly unsteady in the final days, said Blair Horner, executive director of the New York Public Interest Research Group. His nonpartisan organization and Common Cause NY, along with several voter-forward advocacy groups and high-powered unions, had supported, at least in name, a campaign for the ballot proposals. The nonpartisan groups said that it is likely the campaign was outspent in the ballpark of 10-to-1 by the "no" push, although final spending totals are not yet available.

"We were very nervous about what was going to happen because you're only seeing one side of the story being described to voters," said Horner, who was describing the onslaught of attack ads on the ballot measures that the state Republican and Conservative parties unleashed.

Jacobs, who is from Long Island, said he had not seen any of the attack ads on TV there. The ads compared the ballot questions to nationwide talking points, like the unfounded concept of voter fraud. States like Florida have long held no-excuse absentee ballot voting and were not widely accused of fraud.

New York GOP Chairman Nick Langworthy, during a victory lap in Albany Wednesday, supported the party's messaging, comparing it to the Democratic Party's efforts. He had coupled the TV ads with a statewide tour, entitled "Just Say No."

"The funny part of that is where were the Democrats that were so proud of their efforts to put these things on the ballot?" Langworthy told reporters outside the state Capitol building. "I don't think in my own travels or any piece of your publications did I see Democrat politicians stand at a podium like I did, 40 times in the last 10 days, and say why these were virtuous ideas — because they were trying to steal in the dead of night."

The success Langworthy celebrated also mirrored Republican victories across the country a year after Democrat Joe Biden was elected president over former President Donald Trump. The success the party had leaning into issues of voter integrity and crime, plus key wins in states like Virginia, are a "great blueprint for us to follow," he said.

The attack on voting integrity is something that might need to be tackled more directly moving forward, League of Women Voters of New York Deputy Director Jennifer Wilson said.

"The onus is on us — us being voting rights advocates — to do better education about voter fraud and the lack of voter fraud," Wilson said. "A lot people, regardless if they're Democrats, Republicans or some other party, are afraid of voter fraud."

Despite the defeat of the amendments, which took many Democrats by surprise, the margins could have been much closer if not for a couple of baseline voting elements.

For example, on Proposal 1, which tackled a host of redistricting issues, it lost by about 516,000 votes, according to election returns Wednesday afternoon. In New York City, 23 percent of voters left their ballot blank; outside of the city, the average was 8 percent.

In New York City, 21 percent of its electorate turned out to vote; outside of the city, 28 percent voted. If New York City voters both turned out and left its ballot blank at the same clip as the rest of the state, the question may have been defeated by 16,000 votes, based on a review of Board of Elections data by the Times Union.

Proposals 1, 3 and 4 all received about 38 percent of New Yorkers voting in favor and around 50 percent rejecting the measures. The rest left their ballots blank. The measures were not necessarily comparable with each other, despite failing at all about the same rate. It gives both the good government groups and the state GOP reason to believe that the reason for the failure was the loud messaging by the Republican Party, which may have resonated with a wide swath of voters — especially in the absence of a silent counterattack.

The proposals were part of a ballot campaign, led by the nonpartisan group Common Cause NY. It would be atypical for a nonpartisan group to reach out to a partisan group, like the state Democratic Party, for support on a ballot measure. Jacobs said he typically would wait for groups or politicians to reach out to him to then offer whatever financial support they could.

"It's clear that Republicans and Conservatives were far-more motivated to run a 'no' campaign as they saw these as existential threats to the future of the party's power in New York, and acted like it," Sarah Goff, deputy director of Common Cause NY, said. "Unfortunately the supporters of the propositions were complacent."

[Punished UMN]

Nah, I’d argue it was Terry opening his mouth and saying this on a debate stage. “ I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.” Yeah, the moms got PISSED at this. You don’t say that to a mother, her kid’s education is her concern.

Yeah I agree with that. I feel like parents should be more involved in education.

Well the issue you're inevitably running into is that you have parents of one group trying to prevent schools from teaching historical contexts that undermine their system of political beliefs, often at the expense of other groups, and you have to ask yourself if it's in the public interest to allow parents to dictate education. It wasn't controversial here that schools should, for example, teach evolutionary theory when parents objected to that, why should it be controversial that schools teach about historical realities of our country's social development? The answer hints at the motivation for these political actions: that it weakens the stranglehold of of a particular strand of American political thought on legitimacy. For the side of the spectrum that talks about censorship or thoughtcrime, the GOP on this issue is trying to limit education on specific topics in history into a hagiography.

[Saiwania]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

[Kowani]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

an unironic conservapedia link

that's it i'm done for the day
see y'all later


this is full of lies, i should mention

[The Jamesian Republic]

Yeah I agree with that. I feel like parents should be more involved in education.

Well the issue you're inevitably running into is that you have parents of one group trying to prevent schools from teaching historical contexts that undermine their system of political beliefs, often at the expense of other groups, and you have to ask yourself if it's in the public interest to allow parents to dictate education. It wasn't controversial here that schools should, for example, teach evolutionary theory when parents objected to that, why should it be controversial that schools teach about historical realities of our country's social development? The answer hints at the motivation for these political actions: that it weakens the stranglehold of of a particular strand of American political thought on legitimacy. For the side of the spectrum that talks about censorship or thoughtcrime, the GOP on this issue is trying to limit education on specific topics in history into a hagiography.

That’s true. I didn’t really think about that.

[The Reformed American Republic]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

Get a job Sai.

[Port Caverton]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

>conservapedia
bruh

[Neu California]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

Isn't Conservapedia just trolls and other assorted assholes at this point?

[The Reformed American Republic]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

Isn't Conservapedia just trolls and other assorted assholes at this point?

They're either trolls or insane.

[Nora Xent]

Isn't Conservapedia just trolls and other assorted assholes at this point?

They're either trolls or insane.

most likely the latter. I say this because their founder is a nut job.

[The Reformed American Republic]

They're either trolls or insane.

most likely the latter. I say this because their founder is a nut job.

Agreed.

[San Lumen]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

thats not a source.

[San Lumen]

Also aren’t all parties to blame for their own failures?

To an extent, but Kowani's made the point that TPO was the largest factor AKA the classic "throw the bums out and swing the pendulum" mentality that all non-Presidential election years face.

so every two or four years the House and Senate are going to switch hands? Thats not sustainable.

[Umeria]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

I read this and it looks like the overall argument is that critical race theory will be used as a justification for taking away freedom of speech, equal rights, etc. If this is the case, then why not just go after the attempts to take away free speech directly? I don't like the fact that my economics class taught trickle-down economics, which can be used to justify all sorts of horrible policies, but that didn't make me want to ban the material.

[The Reformed American Republic]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

thats not a source.

It shows that Sai is now seeking a full divorce from reality.

[Dreria]

https://conservapedia.com/Critical_race_theory

This should give the American right's perspective on the topic. (The website has some challenges, but just be patient and try again or refresh page until you get the page to load or past a server connection time out- and chances are you can get to it.)

I read this and it looks like the overall argument is that critical race theory will be used as a justification for taking away freedom of speech, equal rights, etc. If this is the case, then why not just go after the attempts to take away free speech directly? I don't like the fact that my economics class taught trickle-down economics, which can be used to justify all sorts of horrible policies, but that didn't make me want to ban the material.

we should ban trickle down economics from being taught in school tbh

[Page]

Conservapedia has a page called "The Biden Putsch." And the very first two sentences on their article of Biden himself is that he "occupied" the White House on January 20 and that he is the first President to hold the dishonor of being held in contempt of the British Parliament.

Funny enough, I remember Conservapedia from all the way back in 2006 during my teenage atheist days (still an atheist just don't care about atheism anymore) and I can tell you that the years have not been kind to it, not that it ever had anything good going for it in the first place.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Conservapedia has a page called "The Biden Putsch." And the very first two sentences on their article of Biden himself is that he "occupied" the White House on January 20 and that he is the first President to hold the dishonor of being held in contempt of the British Parliament.

Funny enough, I remember Conservapedia from all the way back in 2006 during my teenage atheist days (still an atheist just don't care about atheism anymore) and I can tell you that the years have not been kind to it, not that it ever had anything good going for it in the first place.

It's cringy how they literally just invent "facts" about Biden. The closest thing I could find was some British MPs criticizing Biden, which is not the same as the Parliament holding him in contempt.

[Umeria]

I read this and it looks like the overall argument is that critical race theory will be used as a justification for taking away freedom of speech, equal rights, etc. If this is the case, then why not just go after the attempts to take away free speech directly? I don't like the fact that my economics class taught trickle-down economics, which can be used to justify all sorts of horrible policies, but that didn't make me want to ban the material.

we should ban trickle down economics from being taught in school tbh

That sounds good in theory, but it creates a precedent for whoever's in charge to ban anything they don't like. That's why, as much as I dislike trickle-down economics, I still believe that people should have the right to teach it.

[Dreria]

we should ban trickle down economics from being taught in school tbh

That sounds good in theory, but it creates a precedent for whoever's in charge to ban anything they don't like.

yes that's called the state being in charge of state schools

[Vassenor]

Consider this: if the “boss makes a dollar, i make a dime” line was real Amazon workers would all have 19 billion dollars. If the “boss makes a thousand and gives me a cent” line was real, Amazon workers would all have over 100 million dollars.

That’s what income inequality looks like in practice.

[San Lumen]

thats not a source.

It shows that Sai is now seeking a full divorce from reality.

white supremacy is a divorce from reality in itself.