American Politics VIII: Dancin' with Manchin

[The Jamesian Republic]

That’s kind of my point. It’s not just one size fits all. Yes Trump and Biden lied about things and obviously it’s not okay, but they aren’t exclusive to the label as far as politicians go.

When I have stated Republicans are not Political Saints and Democrats are not Political Saints, who agrees who disagrees? no one agrees with my statement, I have often been accused of whataboutism, or Republicans do it more than Democrats.

For the NS Posts records, I Added my second edited statement to your quote above.

I agree that the political parties are not saints and even then it’s foolish to think that way. Any wrongdoings by politicians should be held accountable and disciplined accordingly.

[Cannot think of a name]

People need to stop saying this shit.

I know it's meant to make you sound like you're savvy and above it all, but it doesn't do that.

First of all, it is to political commentary what 'take my wife, please' or 'why did the chicken cross the road'.

But more importantly, it's not holding politicians accountable, it's making excuses for them. It's literally letting them off the hook.

Look at what just happened in this conversation. Trump was pathological in his lies, and not in that bullshit 'he said this policy I don't agree with would be good bullshit either. But that's okay, right, because Biden lies. All politicians lie and so we're not dealing with the actual issue, just giving them a pass. Tacitly saying, "It's okay to lie. We covered for you with kneejerk empty cynicism. Doesn't matter now. It doesn't make you cool and it deteriorates the discourse.

I wasn’t trying to be savvy nor cool nor was I trying to say it is okay to lie.

And yet...

I just trying to point out that it not just that Trump or Biden exclusively being liars but all politicians have lied to a certain extent.

Again, not really a hot take. And framing it this way as you and millions of others have, regardless of what you think you were doing, actually provides cover for them instead of holding them accountable by addressing their specific actions not some generic wanky 'all politicians lie' horseshit that says nothing and only succeeds in trivializing it.

Granted I could have worded it better.

Much. Much much better. Or, you know, not at all. Because it's the most cliched political take you could do. Look some shit up, act like you're paying attention.

[The Jamesian Republic]

I wasn’t trying to be savvy nor cool nor was I trying to say it is okay to lie.

And yet...

I just trying to point out that it not just that Trump or Biden exclusively being liars but all politicians have lied to a certain extent.

Again, not really a hot take. And framing it this way as you and millions of others have, regardless of what you think you were doing, actually provides cover for them instead of holding them accountable by addressing their specific actions not some generic wanky 'all politicians lie' horseshit that says nothing and only succeeds in trivializing it.

Granted I could have worded it better.

Much. Much much better. Or, you know, not at all. Because it's the most cliched political take you could do. Look some shit up, act like you're paying attention.

I’m sorry. I will try to be less cliché and be more attentive when it comes to taking sides.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

And yet...

Again, not really a hot take. And framing it this way as you and millions of others have, regardless of what you think you were doing, actually provides cover for them instead of holding them accountable by addressing their specific actions not some generic wanky 'all politicians lie' horseshit that says nothing and only succeeds in trivializing it.

Much. Much much better. Or, you know, not at all. Because it's the most cliched political take you could do. Look some shit up, act like you're paying attention.

I’m sorry. I will try to be less cliché and be more attentive when it comes to taking sides.

Republicans and Democrats are not Political Saints either. But many persons seem to make it seem like Democrats are the only ones who are Political Saints.

[Diahon]

Diahon also thinks we should start wars with the Russians and Chinese and keep making the rubble bounce in Afghanistan; it’s less a clear political vision and more the unrestrained application of apocalyptic bloodlust to any conceivable situation

Is this what playing too much HoI4 and reading to much alt-history does to a person?

Or are neocons and neolibs just different skins for the same kind of warmongering asshole?

if i'm an asshole, i try to do it for the right sort of reasons, and not due to hol4 (whatever that is -- i think it's a game?) or alternate history

but i understand you don't want war, and that's fine...

... to a bloody point, and that point may well be soon eough

[The Jamesian Republic]

Is this what playing too much HoI4 and reading to much alt-history does to a person?

Or are neocons and neolibs just different skins for the same kind of warmongering asshole?

if i'm an asshole, i try to do it for the right sort of reasons, and not due to hol4 (whatever that is -- i think it's a game?) or alternate history

but i understand you don't want war, and that's fine...

... to a bloody point, and that point may well be soon eough

Creating a one party state to preserve democracy isn’t the answer and will make the situation worse.

[American Legionaries]

if i'm an asshole, i try to do it for the right sort of reasons, and not due to hol4 (whatever that is -- i think it's a game?) or alternate history

but i understand you don't want war, and that's fine...

... to a bloody point, and that point may well be soon eough

Creating a one party state to preserve democracy isn’t the answer and will make the situation worse.

The minister of elections is happy to announce that Diahon has won re-election to his eleventh term as President with 683% of the vote.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

if i'm an asshole, i try to do it for the right sort of reasons, and not due to hol4 (whatever that is -- i think it's a game?) or alternate history

but i understand you don't want war, and that's fine...

... to a bloody point, and that point may well be soon eough

Creating a one party state to preserve democracy isn’t the answer and will make the situation worse.

Like in my native Cuba.

[Diahon]

Creating a one party state to preserve democracy isn’t the answer and will make the situation worse.

The minister of elections is happy to announce that Diahon has won re-election to his eleventh term as President with 683% of the vote.

fuck no i don't want that

[Great Algerstonia]

The minister of elections is happy to announce that Diahon has won re-election to his eleventh term as President with 683% of the vote.

fuck no i don't want that

Good PR move, Mr. President-for-Life... uh, keep that last part off of documented record.

[Comerciante]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

[Big Bad Blue]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

The demise of the Republican Party is the first step toward a much fairer nation and a better economic system. The contest then will be between the moderate and progressive wings of the current Democratic Party. Rinse and repeat.

[Juristonia]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

That's why I never get the "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" thing.
I can count the number of people I know that actually like the dems on one hand. It's just that, well, they're a bit less shit than the alternatives.

[Big Bad Blue]

SCOTUS is now hearing oral arguments in Mississippi v. Dobbs, the abortion ban case

There’s a player in the link if you want to listen in

so, my normal cynicism at play, disclaimer
that said, by my count
4 sure votes to overturn roe/casey (alito, thomas, gorsuch, kavanaugh)
3 sure votes to preserve roe/casey (sotomyor, kagan, breyer)
1 vote to keep roe/casey but remove viability standard +uphold MS law (roberts)
1 vote leaning strongly towards overturning roe/casey (barret)

a few other takeaways
roberts tried his best to get support for his compromise from barret and kavanaugh but no dice
gorsuch barely asked any questions, i counted like maybe 2 (bad because one of the explicit reasons for this case was the new makeup of the court)
breyer still thinks the court is apolitical
kavanaugh is very worried about his image
clarence thomas is coming for gay marriage and intercourse rights (also maybe unintentionally his own marriage? i need to double-check that one)

Yes, he'll go after Loving v. Virginia next.

Every Democratic candidate for US Senate in 2022 should, immediately after saying "my name is Joe Politico and I'm running for the US Senate," promise that if there is a Dem majority in 2023 he, she or ki will vote to expand the Supremes by at least four seats.

[Comerciante]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

That's why I never get the "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" thing.
I can count the number of people I know that actually like the dems on one hand. It's just that, well, they're a bit less shit than the alternatives.

Therein lies the tragedy of it all.

Despite how cartoonishly assholish the Republicans are the Democrats can only marginally be considered an improvement and you have to look for the margins, with a magnifying glass.

[San Lumen]

so, my normal cynicism at play, disclaimer
that said, by my count
4 sure votes to overturn roe/casey (alito, thomas, gorsuch, kavanaugh)
3 sure votes to preserve roe/casey (sotomyor, kagan, breyer)
1 vote to keep roe/casey but remove viability standard +uphold MS law (roberts)
1 vote leaning strongly towards overturning roe/casey (barret)

a few other takeaways
roberts tried his best to get support for his compromise from barret and kavanaugh but no dice
gorsuch barely asked any questions, i counted like maybe 2 (bad because one of the explicit reasons for this case was the new makeup of the court)
breyer still thinks the court is apolitical
kavanaugh is very worried about his image
clarence thomas is coming for gay marriage and intercourse rights (also maybe unintentionally his own marriage? i need to double-check that one)

Yes, he'll go after Loving v. Virginia next.

Every Democratic candidate for US Senate in 2022 should, immediately after saying "my name is Joe Politico and I'm running for the US Senate," promise that if there is a Dem majority in 2023 he, she or ki will vote to expand the Supremes by at least four seats.

There is no way the court overturns Loving. If they ever did they would be so widely out of step with public opinion they would lose any and all credibility they had left and likely be seen as illegitimate by many.

[Arlenton]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

The demise of the Republican Party is the first step toward a much fairer nation and a better economic system. The contest then will be between the moderate and progressive wings of the current Democratic Party. Rinse and repeat.

That would be eliminating a wide swath of the US electorate.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Dude fucking lied about the weather at an event covered live by every outlet in the country and attended by thousands of people. Motherfucker can't help himself.

This little manchild needs therapy and so many tranquilisers for his psychopathy.

[Arlenton]

so, my normal cynicism at play, disclaimer
that said, by my count
4 sure votes to overturn roe/casey (alito, thomas, gorsuch, kavanaugh)
3 sure votes to preserve roe/casey (sotomyor, kagan, breyer)
1 vote to keep roe/casey but remove viability standard +uphold MS law (roberts)
1 vote leaning strongly towards overturning roe/casey (barret)

a few other takeaways
roberts tried his best to get support for his compromise from barret and kavanaugh but no dice
gorsuch barely asked any questions, i counted like maybe 2 (bad because one of the explicit reasons for this case was the new makeup of the court)
breyer still thinks the court is apolitical
kavanaugh is very worried about his image
clarence thomas is coming for gay marriage and intercourse rights (also maybe unintentionally his own marriage? i need to double-check that one)

Yes, he'll go after Loving v. Virginia next.

Every Democratic candidate for US Senate in 2022 should, immediately after saying "my name is Joe Politico and I'm running for the US Senate," promise that if there is a Dem majority in 2023 he, she or ki will vote to expand the Supremes by at least four seats.

What would be the case that brings about this? I don't see any states attempting, or any signs that any want to ban interracial marriage. Nor do I see a visible portion of the population advocating to do so, let alone a portion with significant leverage in politics like what the pro-life movement has. Loving and Roe are not comparable in this sense.

[Big Bad Blue]

Yes, he'll go after Loving v. Virginia next.

Every Democratic candidate for US Senate in 2022 should, immediately after saying "my name is Joe Politico and I'm running for the US Senate," promise that if there is a Dem majority in 2023 he, she or ki will vote to expand the Supremes by at least four seats.

What would be the case that brings about this? I don't see any states attempting, or any signs that any want to ban interracial marriage. Nor do I see a visible portion of the population advocating to do so, let alone a portion with significant leverage in politics like what the pro-life movement has. Loving and Roe are not comparable in this sense.

Both are based on the same Constitutional right to privacy, as are Griswold (contraception) and Obergefell (same-sex marriage). If the US government must remain neutral with respect to state enactments criminalizing abortion as the putative Supremes' majority reasons why must it not remain neutral with respect to state enactments criminalizing contraception or marriage between people of the same gender or different races? And I wouldn't be so damn certain that Mississippi wouldn't move to criminalize any of that.

[Ngelmish]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

That's why I never get the "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" thing.
I can count the number of people I know that actually like the dems on one hand. It's just that, well, they're a bit less shit than the alternatives.

That bit of folk wisdom arises from the (limited) notion that Democrats only push it over the top in presidential elections if their candidate has one of a kind charisma e.g, Clinton, Bill. The corollary is supposed to be that even when ideologically driven Republicans don't much like their nominee on an individual level, they still turn out to vote. Like most of these election truisms, the relevant data set is so small that it's not really a useful observation and can usually be reduced to anecdotal angst that Hillary lost. (Or Kerry, or Gore, or Dukakis, etc.).

[San Lumen]

What would be the case that brings about this? I don't see any states attempting, or any signs that any want to ban interracial marriage. Nor do I see a visible portion of the population advocating to do so, let alone a portion with significant leverage in politics like what the pro-life movement has. Loving and Roe are not comparable in this sense.

Both are based on the same Constitutional right to privacy, as are Griswold (contraception) and Obergefell (same-sex marriage). If the US government must remain neutral with respect to state enactments criminalizing abortion as the putative Supremes' majority reasons why must it not remain neutral with respect to state enactments criminalizing contraception or marriage between people of the same gender or different races? And I wouldn't be so damn certain that Mississippi wouldn't move to criminalize any of that.

They would be so widely out of step with public opinion they would have no legitimacy. The backlash would be almost impossible to put into words. The next election would be a mega tsunami for democrats that would be on par with 1894 if not bigger.

This isn’t even taking into account the mass pain and suffering such a decision would cause.

[The Jamesian Republic]

That's why I never get the "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" thing.
I can count the number of people I know that actually like the dems on one hand. It's just that, well, they're a bit less shit than the alternatives.

Therein lies the tragedy of it all.

Despite how cartoonishly assholish the Republicans are the Democrats can only marginally be considered an improvement and you have to look for the margins, with a magnifying glass.

That is to a certain extent true. There have been times where I felt Trump could be compared to a Bond villain and politics has felt like a soap opera/thriller

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

The demise of the Republican Party is the first step toward a much fairer nation and a better economic system. The contest then will be between the moderate and progressive wings of the current Democratic Party. Rinse and repeat.

I know many persons like myself who strongly disagree and support the Republicans over the Democrats.

[Arlenton]

I do have to admit the idea of removing the Republicans from office is a repulsive idea to me only because then we'll put the country in the Democrat's hands.

I tolerate the Democrats because no matter how much the Independents and other 3rd Parties bemoan it, a vote for them is a wasted vote.

But that's the thing I "tolerate" the Democrats. I'd shove them on the same bus as the Republicans if I could.

That's why I never get the "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" thing.
I can count the number of people I know that actually like the dems on one hand. It's just that, well, they're a bit less shit than the alternatives.

Republicans have and continue to deliver on what I want them to do, and they do so ruthlessly. So I can say I am pretty happy with my political party.

I have yet to see a Democrat say the same.