American Politics VIII: Dancin' with Manchin

[Shrillland]

Yes, but even then, the odds of survival are better than if a full political cleansing took place, which I would be in serious danger of living in a rural red community.

I would be in danger as well, I too live in a rural community that is red in Alabama.

Any scenario whether they be American Civil War II or the American Troubles are unnerving and frightening thoughts that pierce the core of any American. Whether they are Republican Democrat White Black Religious Atheist Straight LGBT Men Women or Children. We cannot, we must not let this happen. We cannot shatter our nation into various bickering idealogiesWe cannot let the people of our nation cower in fear over the thought that there neighbors could plotting an attack in their community for a faceless ideology. This is the duty of Americans and we must answer this call to action.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Our biggest problem, however, is how the hell are we supposed to bell this particular cat? We would have to find a way to diminish the power of the right-wing info ecosystem that Kowani's shown is so effective(although there is plenty of vitriol on both sides of the floor, the right is more effective at forming their own realities out of it), and we would have to break up the toxic two-party system that foments such unnatural combinations of ideologies as we have. Sadly, most states that are into reform are looking to RCV to solve their problems, which only helps individuals and not smaller parties as a whole.

[Untecna]

Because the Southern ideology is now part of the Republican Party.

Prior to the 1930s, the Republican party was for the urban workers, and the democrats were for the rural elite.

However, that changed over the course of several decades, until we have had somewhat of an ideological swap between the 2 parties.

This is also why the Republican Party colour is red and the Democrats are blue.

Uh, none of that is true.

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

And as I said, the people who didn't like Tim Kaine because he was a moderate would've found any excuse for disliking her VP choice regardless. All picking a progressive VP would've done would have been to make them turn against the candidate picked.

I know it's convenient to think of progressives as a hivemind where everyone behaves identically, but the truth is that a progressive VP would have won over many progressive voters and also left many progressive voters unconvinced.

No, because the Democrats voting for Stein were disaffected Sanders supporters who he (perhaps intentionally, with an eye to running in 2020) failed to win over to Hillary. The Republicans who defected to the Libertarians didn't have some figure of their movement who lost the Republican primary.

Why do you need to lose a primary to be a figure that could have convinced voters who align with you to fall in line? As you point out later in your post, Obama is partially responsible for not convincing his supporters to vote for Hillary, and he didn't lose a primary. So in any hypothetical where the progressive movement listens to Sanders (who, again, campaigned for Clinton harder than Clinton did), you also have to account for Ron Paul or a similar figure getting the libertarian movement to fall in line behind Trump. And when you account for that, you see that the corralling of these movements would have helped Trump more than Clinton.

Bernie isn't a Democrat, so that rule never applied to him anyway.

So either you don't believe in lesser evil voting (in which case you shouldn't expect progressives to believe in it either), or you think Bernie is worse than Trump. I really hope it's not the latter.

Obama deserves a lot of blame, yes, as I've already said. And you are right in that he should've done a lot more to ensure the people who voted for him voted for Hillary. But he didn't.

Good, we agree here.

Many more would've been unconvinced than won over.

You misunderstand the nature of the Libertarian protest vote. They didn't vote for Gary Johnson because they were libertarians, let alone libertarians in the form of Ron Paul. At most - at most! - they were 'libertarians' in a "yeah, I support gay marriage and legalising marijuana", which is to say not really at all. Disaffected Republicans becoming Libertarian voters and Sanders supporters becoming Green voters are not comparable.

If I lived in America, if I had been eligible to vote, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have cast a write-in vote for Hillary.

[Great Algerstonia]

Uh, none of that is true.

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

Actually, it varied by news source until 2000 where the standard became Republican Red, Democrat Blue to avoid confusing Americans watching the Florida coverage from different stations. "Red states" and "Blue states" likewise became popular terms after 2000.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Uh, none of that is true.

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

start using #964B00 for both parties instead, standing ofc for the colour of shit.

[The Jamesian Republic]

I would be in danger as well, I too live in a rural community that is red in Alabama.

Any scenario whether they be American Civil War II or the American Troubles are unnerving and frightening thoughts that pierce the core of any American. Whether they are Republican Democrat White Black Religious Atheist Straight LGBT Men Women or Children. We cannot, we must not let this happen. We cannot shatter our nation into various bickering idealogiesWe cannot let the people of our nation cower in fear over the thought that there neighbors could plotting an attack in their community for a faceless ideology. This is the duty of Americans and we must answer this call to action.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Our biggest problem, however, is how the hell are we supposed to bell this particular cat? We would have to find a way to diminish the power of the right-wing info ecosystem that Kowani's shown is so effective(although there is plenty of vitriol on both sides of the floor, the right is more effective at forming their own realities out of it), and we would have to break up the toxic two-party system that foments such unnatural combinations of ideologies as we have. Sadly, most states that are into reform are looking to RCV to solve their problems, which only helps individuals and not smaller parties as a whole.

That’s the next part of this struggle for survival. As for trying to disrupt the ecosystem there would need to be a counter ecosystem that could pollute what the right has developed. Or we would need to find people like Margaret Chase Smith who have the guts to oppose them. As for the two party system issue we should lobby to give the Libertarians Greens etc. more air time. Or find the next Ross Perot who could actually have a chance to win and maybe actually do so. Even historically Perot loss big time. That of course would need to start in the Congress and work along to the White House.

[Umeria]

If I lived in America, if I had been eligible to vote, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have cast a write-in vote for Hillary.

Why? Because you don't believe in lesser evil voting, or because you believe Bernie is worse than Trump?

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Uh, none of that is true.

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

No, it isn't true.

If I lived in America, if I had been eligible to vote, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have cast a write-in vote for Hillary.

Why? Because you don't believe in lesser evil voting, or because you believe Bernie is worse than Trump?

Because I don't believe in lesser evil voting, also because I'm a Hillary stan.

[Untecna]

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

Actually, it varied by news source until 2000 where the standard became Republican Red, Democrat Blue to avoid confusing Americans watching the Florida coverage from different stations. "Red states" and "Blue states" likewise became popular terms after 2000.

Yup, that too. But the original switch was made by, I believe, ABC, during the 1980 election.

We should just follow along, though, and make it Democrat Red and Republican Blue.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Actually, it varied by news source until 2000 where the standard became Republican Red, Democrat Blue to avoid confusing Americans watching the Florida coverage from different stations. "Red states" and "Blue states" likewise became popular terms after 2000.

Yup, that too. But the original switch was made by, I believe, ABC, during the 1980 election.

We should just follow along, though, and make it Democrat Red and Republican Blue.

make both brown instead. way easier to understand.

[Untecna]

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

No, it isn't true.

Why? Because you don't believe in lesser evil voting, or because you believe Bernie is worse than Trump?

Because I don't believe in lesser evil voting, also because I'm a Hillary stan.

You have yet to provide evidence otherwise, but I doubt you can, considering that what he said was, in essence, common knowledge in the American political system.

[Great Algerstonia]

Yup, that too. But the original switch was made by, I believe, ABC, during the 1980 election.

We should just follow along, though, and make it Democrat Red and Republican Blue.

make both brown instead. way easier to understand.

Make Democrats poop emoji and Republicans eagle emoji

[Necroghastia]

Everything but his last statement is, indeed, true. The colors of the parties only really exist for the media and the media made them. At first, it was the opposite, but eventually, during the 1980 election, red was chosen for Reagan because Reagan, red, you get it? We've been stuck with it ever since, and it's quite illogical.

No, it isn't true.

Are you claiming this never happened?

Because I don't believe in lesser evil voting, also because I'm a Hillary stan.

weren't you complaining earlier about bernie voters supposedly (x to doubt) throwing the election because they refused to do that

[The Jamesian Republic]

make both brown instead. way easier to understand.

Make Democrats poop emoji and Republicans eagle emoji

How about for the maps but an R on a Republican won state and D on a Democrat won state.

[Untecna]

Yup, that too. But the original switch was made by, I believe, ABC, during the 1980 election.

We should just follow along, though, and make it Democrat Red and Republican Blue.

make both brown instead. way easier to understand.

Paint me confused.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

No, it isn't true.


Because I don't believe in lesser evil voting, also because I'm a Hillary stan.

You have yet to provide evidence otherwise, but I doubt you can, considering that what he said was, in essence, common knowledge in the American political system.

I don't need to provide evidence, he's the one making the assertions. Burden of proof is on him. "Common knowledge" does not equal correct. It is also "common knowledge" that cats smother babies.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

make both brown instead. way easier to understand.

Paint me confused.

brown for the colour of shit.

[Necroghastia]

You have yet to provide evidence otherwise, but I doubt you can, considering that what he said was, in essence, common knowledge in the American political system.

I don't need to provide evidence, he's the one making the assertions. Burden of proof is on him. "Common knowledge" does not equal correct. It is also "common knowledge" that cats smother babies.

I have never heard that once before in my life but go off I guess

[Umeria]

Why? Because you don't believe in lesser evil voting, or because you believe Bernie is worse than Trump?

Because I don't believe in lesser evil voting, also because I'm a Hillary stan.

Why on earth are you blaming Bernie supporters for having the same reasoning as you?

[Untecna]

You have yet to provide evidence otherwise, but I doubt you can, considering that what he said was, in essence, common knowledge in the American political system.

I don't need to provide evidence, he's the one making the assertions. Burden of proof is on him. "Common knowledge" does not equal correct. It is also "common knowledge" that cats smother babies.

Damn, didn't know words mean anything anymore, and that you are the only one that's right.

[Untecna]

Paint me confused.

brown for the colour of shit.

That was obvious. I meant if I were to vote, paint me confused.

[Thermodolia]

"people with uteruses"

again, there's nothing wrong with saying "woman" or "female"

unless trans women can actually have the necessary reproductive system and give birth through it, strictly one half of humanity can conceive

People who are not women who may have uteruses include:

* Transmen
* Non-binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen or Cismen who have had a uterus transplant

It’s women. Not some woke gobbledygook

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Uh, none of that is true.

Are you claiming this never happened?

The Southern strategy is way overblown, and to call it an outright myth really isn't that far from the truth. Newt Gingrich won in southern, suburban Fulton County, not Jimmy Carter's hometown. It was the least culturally Southern Southerners who first started voting for the Republicans other than in 1964.

I don't need to provide evidence, he's the one making the assertions. Burden of proof is on him. "Common knowledge" does not equal correct. It is also "common knowledge" that cats smother babies.

Damn, didn't know words mean anything anymore, and that you are the only one that's right.

OK, so no evidence from you in his support then.

[Kowani]

David Perdue files lawsuit claiming he lost because of...voter fraud

On Thursday, David Perdue, a one-term Republican Senator from Georgia who is now running for governor, filed a lawsuitin state court raising repeatedly-debunked claims of voter fraud during the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit alleges that there were multiple issues with the processing and counting of absentee ballots across Georgia, particularly in Fulton County, rehashing conspiracy theories about a ballot processing center and claiming that “thousands” of absentee ballots were “unlawfully marked by machines rather than legally registered Georgia voters.” Georgia was the focus of Republican ire during the 2020 election cycle due to its status as a swing state that eventually voted for Biden and elected two Democratic senators (Perdue lost his reelection race to Sen. Jon Ossoff (D)). Many Republicans lawsuits contesting the results centered on the validity of absentee ballots and courts repeatedly rejected claims that this new lawsuit repeats (which is noteworthy considering that Perdue voted by mail in the 2020 election).

The timing of this lawsuit — filed thirteen months after the 2020 presidential election — coincides with Perdue announcing his run for governor earlier this week. He faces a primary against current Gov. Brian Kemp (R). Perdue stated earlier this week that he would not have certified Georgia’s 2020 election results, unlike his opponent Kemp did. Perdue’s amplification of 2020 voter fraud claims is aligned with the Republican Party’s ongoing efforts to limit access to the ballot box, particularly voting by mail.

[Thermodolia]

Absolutely not, terrible terrible idea.

citation needed

Extremely stupid, increase the budget money is just a number anyway

How much money you spend on something matters, actually. And we spend way too much on the military, so much that the Pentagon has never been successfully audited.

Not really. We can print 20 trillion dollar coins, hand them to the federal bank and buy back $20 trillion in debt. Then we can spend how we see fit.

The government can declare that a new note is whatever it wants.

And no we don’t spend enough on the military, we need a thousand ship navy and a major spending increase in space warfare