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American Politics VIII: Dancin' with Manchin

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:06 pm

Arlenton wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
If the court decided to overturn Roe which seems very possible and Ogberfell and Loving after a case was brought to them which is doubtful they would be so widely out of step with public opinion to be seen as illegitimate and out of touch.

They can choose to ignore public opinion. They are unelected.


Then Republicans can enjoy a blue wave that would rival that of 1894.

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:07 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I’m not naive your comment was pure insanity. There is no legal or moral grounds for them to do so. The court is not not under circumstances going to declare themselves the sole branch of government.

They could and nobody would be able to stop them short of laying siege to the SCOTUS building.


Tell me how.

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Hemakral
Diplomat
 
Posts: 901
Founded: Nov 02, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Hemakral » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:Still waiting for your legal argument.

Lu, this is what you're not understanding.
There is no argument. There is no legal basis for removing the personhood of gay people, and it doesn't matter, because the Supreme Court could still do it if they wanted to. Power trumps legality.
._.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Arlenton wrote:They can choose to ignore public opinion. They are unelected.


Then Republicans can enjoy a blue wave that would rival that of 1894.

Do you think some Trumpista is suddenly going to vote dem once homosexuality is illegal again?
San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:They could and nobody would be able to stop them short of laying siege to the SCOTUS building.


Tell me how.

Because SCOTUS said make it so. Literally. That's it.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10235
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Oh you poor naïve child.


I’m not naive your comment was pure insanity. There is no legal or moral grounds for them to do so. The court is not not under circumstances going to declare themselves the sole branch of government.

Legal grounds can be made, especially by the group that plays a pretty big role in laying the legal groundwork of the country. And moral grounds are subjective.

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Comerciante
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Dec 25, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Comerciante » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Arlenton wrote:They can choose to ignore public opinion. They are unelected.


Then Republicans can enjoy a blue wave that would rival that of 1894.

Just like Hillary was waiti- oh.
San Lumen wrote:Tell me how.

By putting it to a vote and a majority of them being perfectly okay with it because they'll suffer no legal or political repercussions for it because the court they'll have to answer to is Mr. Mcdoesntexist.
"Rumors of CFC affiliates building superweapons in orbit over Earth is fake news. Watch groups have corroborated this even though it would be to quote the BoD "totally rad."

#00: "The first step to acquiring real power, is to learn how to steal it from someone else, the second step is learning how to keep it the third step is to restart from the first step."
"Good and Evil are Two Tall Trees sitting upon a hill, the Tree of Good is Strong and Tall and does not bend, the Tree of Evil is Short and Flimsy when the wind blows Good resists, and breaks and falls on the floor and dies and Evil? well, it bends and it lives."

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Arlenton
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Posts: 10235
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Arlenton wrote:They can choose to ignore public opinion. They are unelected.


Then Republicans can enjoy a blue wave that would rival that of 1894.

We will have to wait and see.

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Comerciante
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Dec 25, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Comerciante » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:11 pm

Hemakral wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Still waiting for your legal argument.

Lu, this is what you're not understanding.
There is no argument. There is no legal basis for removing the personhood of gay people, and it doesn't matter, because the Supreme Court could still do it if they wanted to. Power trumps legality.

Funny thing is that if no precedent exists one shall be made.
"Rumors of CFC affiliates building superweapons in orbit over Earth is fake news. Watch groups have corroborated this even though it would be to quote the BoD "totally rad."

#00: "The first step to acquiring real power, is to learn how to steal it from someone else, the second step is learning how to keep it the third step is to restart from the first step."
"Good and Evil are Two Tall Trees sitting upon a hill, the Tree of Good is Strong and Tall and does not bend, the Tree of Evil is Short and Flimsy when the wind blows Good resists, and breaks and falls on the floor and dies and Evil? well, it bends and it lives."

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:11 pm

Ngl SCOTUS omnipotency should probs be seriously curtailed but Trump has a fatter chance of getting convicted for treason than constitutional reform ever happening.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:13 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Then Republicans can enjoy a blue wave that would rival that of 1894.

Do you think some Trumpista is suddenly going to vote dem once homosexuality is illegal again?
San Lumen wrote:
Tell me how.

Because SCOTUS said make it so. Literally. That's it.


It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.

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Picairn
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6486
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 pm

Comerciante wrote:Funny thing is that if no precedent exists one shall be made.

Judicial tyranny is a bitch.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Do you think some Trumpista is suddenly going to vote dem once homosexuality is illegal again?

Because SCOTUS said make it so. Literally. That's it.


It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.

Then it depends on where the closests states' national guards stands doesn't it? After all tanks > congressppl.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:15 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.

Then it depends on where the closests states' national guards stands doesn't it?


And they have what to do with this? They answer to the governor of that state.

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American Legionaries
Senator
 
Posts: 4912
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:15 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Do you think some Trumpista is suddenly going to vote dem once homosexuality is illegal again?

Because SCOTUS said make it so. Literally. That's it.


It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.


Republicans who support gay marriage are unlikely to swap sides over gay marriage. They already vote Republican.

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Diahon
Senator
 
Posts: 4575
Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Diahon » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:16 pm

i am amazed at those who look at the impending suffering of those they have no opinion about one way or another, see what's on their table, and go "not my problen! now where's my dibs?"

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:16 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Then it depends on where the closests states' national guards stands doesn't it?


And they have what to do with this? They answer to the governor of that state.

They'll have to decide who to support when both congress and scotus are ordering them to "defend the constitution". Oh and Jan 6 was the general rehearsal for this scenario and Virginia State Police got there before DC NG. Gl hf y'all.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:18 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And they have what to do with this? They answer to the governor of that state.

They'll have to decide who to support when both congress and scotus are ordering them to "defend the constitution".


SCOTUS cannot federalize the national guard. They would tell the court we do not answer to you. The Governor is our boss.

Your scenario is pure insanity and completely ludicrous.
Last edited by San Lumen on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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American Legionaries
Senator
 
Posts: 4912
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:They'll have to decide who to support when both congress and scotus are ordering them to "defend the constitution".


SCOTUS cannot federalize the national guard. They would tell the court we do not answer to you. The Governor is our boss.


You do realize that people can do illegal stuff right?

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:They'll have to decide who to support when both congress and scotus are ordering them to "defend the constitution".


SCOTUS cannot federalize the national guard. They would tell the court we do not answer to you. The Governor is our boss.

You would bet on this in a scenario where the state has collapsed to such a degree that SCOTUS feels confident enough to finally declare themselves kings?

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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10235
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Do you think some Trumpista is suddenly going to vote dem once homosexuality is illegal again?

Because SCOTUS said make it so. Literally. That's it.


It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.

The Constitution is the law of the land. The Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court alone, has final say over any and all laws in the US. For all intents and purposes, they are the constitution.

Why does the Supreme Court have such power? Because they ruled that they do in Marbury v. Madison.

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Comerciante
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Dec 25, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Comerciante » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 pm

I guess we can settle for a government shut down in the middle of a pandemic.

I mean it's not as cool as zombies, but it's just as heartbreaking.
"Rumors of CFC affiliates building superweapons in orbit over Earth is fake news. Watch groups have corroborated this even though it would be to quote the BoD "totally rad."

#00: "The first step to acquiring real power, is to learn how to steal it from someone else, the second step is learning how to keep it the third step is to restart from the first step."
"Good and Evil are Two Tall Trees sitting upon a hill, the Tree of Good is Strong and Tall and does not bend, the Tree of Evil is Short and Flimsy when the wind blows Good resists, and breaks and falls on the floor and dies and Evil? well, it bends and it lives."

User avatar
American Legionaries
Senator
 
Posts: 4912
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:20 pm

Arlenton wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
It would turn off many people giving an overwhelming majority supports it.

No they cannot just make it so. Judges cannot declare themselves the law as they are there to interpret the law not be dictators. There is zero legal basis they could use to outlaw congress and the president. Almost every member of the House would vote to impeach and you’d likely get unanimous support for conviction in the Senate.

The Constitution is the law of the land. The Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court alone, has final say over any and all laws in the US. For all intents and purposes, they are the constitution.

Why does the Supreme Court have such power? Because they ruled that they do in Marbury v. Madison.


I am the Senate! SCOTUS!

User avatar
San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:20 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
SCOTUS cannot federalize the national guard. They would tell the court we do not answer to you. The Governor is our boss.

You would bet on this in a scenario where the state has collapsed to such a degree that SCOTUS feels confident enough to finally declare themselves kings?


They aren’t ever going too. This is pure fantasy.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You would bet on this in a scenario where the state has collapsed to such a degree that SCOTUS feels confident enough to finally declare themselves kings?


They aren’t ever going too. This is pure fantasy.

So are at least 90% of your posts but hey.

User avatar
Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10235
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:They'll have to decide who to support when both congress and scotus are ordering them to "defend the constitution".


SCOTUS cannot federalize the national guard. They would tell the court we do not answer to you. The Governor is our boss.

Your scenario is pure insanity and completely ludicrous.

A state ignoring the federal government? That sounds like states' rights. Wasn't this settled in 1865? Tell me, why do you hate black people so much?

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