American Politics VIII: Dancin' with Manchin

[Neutraligon]

Because often times it is easier for a child to understand by watching these shows

Do you not see that as a problem? I would rather the media not have such control over children.

The media would gave such control no matter what...because kids like watching tv.

[Big Bad Blue]

"Progressive" Minneapolis city government hires Trump-adjacent law firm to negotiate with, cover for cops

The firm, Jones Day, is closely connected to Republican party politics, employing numerous former Trump administration lawyers, including former White House counsel Don McGahn. The firm, the fifth largest law firm in the country, also represented the Pennsylvania GOP in challenging an extension to the deadline to return mailed ballots in 2020, and has earned more than $20 million from Trump-affiliated groups since 2015, according to Fortune...

A team of 20 Jones Day attorneys began working for free for the city in February. In March, the firm’s work was expanded to help the city respond to the Minnesota Department of Human Rights investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department.

In April, their work was expanded to include representing the city on disability retirements involving 15 current and former police officers, city documents show.

On July 2, the council unanimously approved extending Jones Day’s work for up to $500,000 this year and $500,000 next, with an extension of up to four years, for representation relating to the U.S. Department of Justice investigation into the police department. By then, Jones Day said, it had provided more than $1 million in free work to the city in about five months.

In August, the firm’s pro bono work grew to include investigating some police misconduct complaints in coordination with the city’s Office of Police Conduct Review, which investigates police misconduct complaints. A letter to the city from Luger cited a “backlog of existing complaints of alleged police misconduct and the limited resources of the OPCR to investigate them.”

A city spokeswoman said the Minnesota Department of Human Rights encouraged city officials to use Jones Day not only to help reduce the OPCR backlog, but to “provide overall benefit to the MDHR’s work.” The office was deluged with police complaints after George Floyd’s police killing, jumping from an average of 288 complaints per year since 2013 to 435 in 2020.

Rebecca Lucero, commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Human Rights, said she encouraged the city to get the help of a law firm to help respond to her office’s large discovery requests, but denies encouraging city officials to use Jones Day to help reduce the OPCR backlog.

“The city needed the support of outside counsel for this size of an investigation,” she said. “And it is typical for cities to work with outside counsel for pattern and practice race discrimination cases.”

Abigail Cerra, chair of Minneapolis’ Police Conduct Oversight Commission, said she supported Jones Day’s free assistance on the police labor contract, but now the firm is “basically taking over the role of OPCR and PCOC for a million dollars.”

“They have options besides engaging Jones Day,” she said. “This creates very significant conflicts of interest.”

The City Council directed Jones Day to work with her commission, and she met with Jones Day lawyers for the first time in mid-November. Cerra said she raised the issue of conflicts of interest, and said a Jones Day attorney agreed that it could present a conflict, but she said different attorneys are handling different work, with a “firewall between them.” That attorney did not respond to a request for comment, and neither did three other Jones Day attorneys.

[Albrenia]

This isn't subjective stuff though.

And genocidal dictators have the same deduction about their human rights violations. Just leave people alone man, if your ideas are correct, they'll work. Good ideas don't require force.

Big Bird getting a vaccination and saying 'I'm still ok!' isn't force.

Also no, I'm not going to just let people get their kids killed because they refuse to believe reality, particularly not if there's also a chance of them spreading it to other people.

[Danubia-Slavia]

And genocidal dictators have the same deduction about their human rights violations. Just leave people alone man, if your ideas are correct, they'll work. Good ideas don't require force.

Bad ideas and conspiracies tend to spread easier because they are far less complicated. And there is the mismatch of getting the information. Good ideas often require force.

I fundamentally disagree. If an idea is good, it benefits the individual, if it benefits the individual, they'll want to embrace it. Yes misinformation is an issue, but that doesn't mean we should mandate truth.

[Necroghastia]

If it's not a good reason, there's no reason to give a damn.

Should we also say kids' shows shouldn't depict characters washing their hands? What about anti-bullying messages? Who are we to say that basic health practices and not being a douche are things we should instill in the children?

No, we wouldn't have such controversies over a common sense health issue if a sizeable amount of politicians didn't decide to sow distrust and disinformation.

What we consider good reasons or not can be mistaken at times, which is why we should not force facts on people.

who is "forcing facts on people?" what is a good reason for being against a goddamn vaccine that isn't based on a lie that's been disproven several times over, and why shouldn't we continue to point out that lies are lies?

Take lead paint as example.

??????
an example of what????

We should let people do things on their own to minimize issues and so it's their own fault if they made a bad decision.

god fucking forbid we help people make informed decisions though right

Maybe YOU should give a damn about leaving people alone you tyrant.

I've gotta live with them, so nah.

Not saying any of those things like bullying are good ir washing your hands is bad, should just be left up to the parents.

and if the parents are shit? should we just let parents raise kids in a goddamn cult if that is their want? if the parents tell kids the kkk are nice men doing good things, that's just dandy?

If politicians are the only ones sowing disinformation, why give more of their institutions power over our kids?

lmao are you now arguing that the sorts of people that spread vaccine misinfo are also the ones who have any fondness at all for public broadcasting

[Danubia-Slavia]

And genocidal dictators have the same deduction about their human rights violations. Just leave people alone man, if your ideas are correct, they'll work. Good ideas don't require force.

Big Bird getting a vaccination and saying 'I'm still ok!' isn't force.

Also no, I'm not going to just let people get their kids killed because they refuse to believe reality, particularly not if there's also a chance of them spreading it to other people.

Getting their kids killed is another story, but refusing a Covid vaccine won't kill your kids. Children are more resistant to the virus. It's only lethal to immunocompromised individuals.

[Antipatros]

Believing that it's okay to indoctrinate someone about a topic because you believe it to be factual is the logic of tyrants.

This isn't subjective stuff though.

Welcome to our fucked up post-truth society.

[Necroghastia]

TIL that letting kids know vaccines aren't scary is fucking indoctrination. Good grief.

You are committing a false dichotomy, opinion disregarded.

False di... do you not remember what we're fucking talking about?

[New haven america]

Big Bird getting a vaccination and saying 'I'm still ok!' isn't force.

Also no, I'm not going to just let people get their kids killed because they refuse to believe reality, particularly not if there's also a chance of them spreading it to other people.

Getting their kids killed is another story, but refusing a Covid vaccine won't kill your kids. Children are more resistant to the virus. It's only lethal to immunocompromised individuals.

No they're not, they're the most susceptible carrier group.

[The Black Forrest]

And genocidal dictators have the same deduction about their human rights violations. Just leave people alone man, if your ideas are correct, they'll work. Good ideas don't require force.

Big Bird getting a vaccination and saying 'I'm still ok!' isn't force.

Also no, I'm not going to just let people get their kids killed because they refuse to believe reality, particularly not if there's also a chance of them spreading it to other people.

Big Bird was only advocating for the vaccine. He wasn’t expected to change everybodies minds. If he motivated a few, he did his job.

[Neutraligon]

Bad ideas and conspiracies tend to spread easier because they are far less complicated. And there is the mismatch of getting the information. Good ideas often require force.

I fundamentally disagree. If an idea is good, it benefits the individual, if it benefits the individual, they'll want to embrace it. Yes misinformation is an issue, but that doesn't mean we should mandate truth.

Good ideas do not always benefit individuals. They instead benefit the collective society. When you have misinformation mismatch at the scale we are talking about the free market place of ideas will always fail. Especially if the people do not have the background knowledge needed to analyze the information they are.given. There is a reason simple slogans and ideas spread and take hold more than complex scientific stuff.

[Albrenia]

Big Bird getting a vaccination and saying 'I'm still ok!' isn't force.

Also no, I'm not going to just let people get their kids killed because they refuse to believe reality, particularly not if there's also a chance of them spreading it to other people.

Getting their kids killed is another story, but refusing a Covid vaccine won't kill your kids. Children are more resistant to the virus. It's only lethal to immunocompromised individuals.

While yes, it is much less lethal to kids, they can still die. That mass vaccination is a way to protect immunocompromised individuals with a safety buffer further proves my point.

[The Jamesian Republic]

My stance on vaccines is this: Get the vaccine at your own volition and you shouldn’t face any financial repercussions for doing so. Also the vaccine mandate should have been voted on by Congress or national referendum.

[The Black Forrest]

I doubt most parents have the mental energy or understanding of child psychology to truly reassure their kids about issues like this. Plus, there are the parents who would lie their asses off either because .of their beliefs or because they're assholes.

While I understand parents aren't perfect, if parents are that negligent, that's when things like child protective services get involved.

A tad too late when the kid is dead.

We would also have trumpist politicians screaming and passing bills to limit child protection over the vaccine.

That of course ignores they are already overworked as it is.

Basically……child services is not a viable solution.

[Danubia-Slavia]

What we consider good reasons or not can be mistaken at times, which is why we should not force facts on people.

who is "forcing facts on people?" what is a good reason for being against a goddamn vaccine that isn't based on a lie that's been disproven several times over, and why shouldn't we continue to point out that lies are lies?

Take lead paint as example.

??????
an example of what????

We should let people do things on their own to minimize issues and so it's their own fault if they made a bad decision.

god fucking forbid we help people make informed decisions though right

Maybe YOU should give a damn about leaving people alone you tyrant.

I've gotta live with them, so nah.

Not saying any of those things like bullying are good ir washing your hands is bad, should just be left up to the parents.

and if the parents are shit? should we just let parents raise kids in a goddamn cult if that is their want? if the parents tell kids the kkk are nice men doing good things, that's just dandy?

If politicians are the only ones sowing disinformation, why give more of their institutions power over our kids?

lmao are you now arguing that the sorts of people that spread vaccine misinfo are also the ones who have any fondness at all for public broadcasting

I'm not giving you a reason, go ask them yourself.

Example of people thinking something was factually safe but wasn't.

Do it on your own time, the corpos can screw off trying to shove their preaching down kids' throats.

Fascist detected.

If they abuse their kids that's one thing, but have you ever thought that people are allowed to be reprehensible?

Yes.

[Neuer California]

Bad ideas and conspiracies tend to spread easier because they are far less complicated. And there is the mismatch of getting the information. Good ideas often require force.

I fundamentally disagree. If an idea is good, it benefits the individual, if it benefits the individual, they'll want to embrace it. Yes misinformation is an issue, but that doesn't mean we should mandate truth.

Sadly, people are nowhere near that simple. They're quick to embrace whatever fits their preconceived notions and slow to change their minds

And that's not even getting into ideas that people think will benefit them, but will actually harm them and/or those around them. See: cigarette misinformation and lobbying until the seventies, and the idea that bleach can cure autism

[Danubia-Slavia]

While I understand parents aren't perfect, if parents are that negligent, that's when things like child protective services get involved.

A tad too late when the kid is dead.

We would also have trumpist politicians screaming and passing bills to limit child protection over the vaccine.

That of course ignores they are already overworked as it is.

Basically……child services is not a viable solution.

So shoving media propaganda down kids' throats is your solution? I wanna be civil but you guys are actually sounding despicable.

[Antipatros]

Why is it that vaccines are singled out instead of other kinds of medicines?

A lot of people (including some of our best and brightest) busted their ass to make this vaccine available in record time, yet big chunks of our population have decided that the vaccines being bad is the culture war issue that they want to die on. It's absolutely soul crushing.

[Neutraligon]

A tad too late when the kid is dead.

We would also have trumpist politicians screaming and passing bills to limit child protection over the vaccine.

That of course ignores they are already overworked as it is.

Basically……child services is not a viable solution.

So shoving media propaganda down kids' throats is your solution? I wanna be civil but you guys are actually sounding despicable.

And here I thought you supported the free marketplace of ideas. Why shouldn't a kids show get to do this?

[Danubia-Slavia]

I fundamentally disagree. If an idea is good, it benefits the individual, if it benefits the individual, they'll want to embrace it. Yes misinformation is an issue, but that doesn't mean we should mandate truth.

Good ideas do not always benefit individuals. They instead benefit the collective society. When you have misinformation mismatch at the scale we are talking about the free market place of ideas will always fail. Especially if the people do not have the background knowledge needed to analyze the information they are.given. There is a reason simple slogans and ideas spread and take hold more than complex scientific stuff.

You forget that the collective would not exist without individials. The collective is just a group, not an entity.

[Picairn]

So shoving media propaganda down kids' throats is your solution? I wanna be civil but you guys are actually sounding despicable.

"Media propaganda"

Riddle me this, have you disproved the safety and efficacy of vaccination?

[Neutraligon]

Good ideas do not always benefit individuals. They instead benefit the collective society. When you have misinformation mismatch at the scale we are talking about the free market place of ideas will always fail. Especially if the people do not have the background knowledge needed to analyze the information they are.given. There is a reason simple slogans and ideas spread and take hold more than complex scientific stuff.

You forget that the collective would not exist without individials. The collective is just a group, not an entity.

And yet the collective is also distinct from an individual with in it.

[Danubia-Slavia]

So shoving media propaganda down kids' throats is your solution? I wanna be civil but you guys are actually sounding despicable.

And here I thought you supported the free marketplace of ideas. Why shouldn't a kids show get to do this?

There's a difference between it can and whether it should. Just leave people alone.

[Albrenia]

A tad too late when the kid is dead.

We would also have trumpist politicians screaming and passing bills to limit child protection over the vaccine.

That of course ignores they are already overworked as it is.

Basically……child services is not a viable solution.

So shoving media propaganda down kids' throats is your solution? I wanna be civil but you guys are actually sounding despicable.

Last I checked Sesame Street isn't Two Minutes Hate, and parents are free to not let their kids watch it if they don't want their kids to learn harmful ideas like 2 + 2 = 4.

[Neutraligon]

And here I thought you supported the free marketplace of ideas. Why shouldn't a kids show get to do this?

There's a difference between it can and whether it should. Just leave people alone.

Then those people need not watch it. They where the ones who decided to let their kids see it. And why shouldn't they?