Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

[Kalaron]

Perhaps you missed the part where it was in self defense......

Cops get their shootings ruled to be self defence as well.

---

Given Ifreann has stated he believes Rittenhouse was a white supremacist both before and after the trial...

Have I indeed? When was this? When I responded to your claims that the left is to blame for Rittenhouse associating with the Proud Boys and Tucker Carlson? If those associations make him a white supremacist, then aren't you also saying that he's a white supremacist? You just think that he was made to be a white supremacist by mean leftists calling him a white supremacist.

---

She wasn't murdered, she was killed in crossfire.

And its hardly self-defence when you're a drug dealer, knowing that police could very well raid your home at any moment.

Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, is not a drug dealer. The police did not suspect that he was drug dealer. The police believed, supposedly, that an ex-boyfriend of Taylor's, Jamarcus Glover, might have left proceeds from his drug dealing in Taylor's possession. He did not, by the way.

*did not leave them at her apartment.
I have noted before, and will continue to note, that the fact the money was not in dollar bills at her house shows shows his faith in her holding his money was pretty justified. You would not give a drug-addict drugs to hold, you would not give someone who steals your wallet, and you wouldn't entrust it to someone who doesn't know how to look after it. I want to see an actual look into where, if at all, the money might have been so we can actually solve this question, since it seems it was never found, and the Police were a little hesitant to dig into her finance after the shooting since that would have -maybe rightly- been viewed as trying to get dirt on her.

[Fahran]

Have I indeed? When was this? When I responded to your claims that the left is to blame for Rittenhouse associating with the Proud Boys and Tucker Carlson? If those associations make him a white supremacist, then aren't you also saying that he's a white supremacist? You just think that he was made to be a white supremacist by mean leftists calling him a white supremacist.

I mean... Vass's implication was pretty clear given she responded to someone who claimed Rittenhouse wasn't a white supremacist by bringing up him celebrating with the Proud Boys at a bar following his release on bail. When I pointed out that the kid wasn't really going to be hanging out with lefties following a media assault on him, you decided to leap into the conversation. As it happens, I think we're on very shaky ground in claiming Rittenhouse was or is a white supremacist in the way that most people would understand that phrase. And, if we employ Kendi's understanding of that phrase, everyone here is probably a white supremacist on some level.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

It does make a lot of sense. If you believe that the social order which you currently live under is fundamentally and intolerably unjust, then anyone - everyone - who is invested in making sure that nobody topples the applecart is your political enemy.

Bringing it back to the Nazi example - it doesn’t matter whether a particular German soldier was a Nazi, and it didn’t matter even if they were an ardent anti-Nazi. The personal beliefs and motivations of the individual German soldiers were completely irrelevant. As long as they defended the German state, willingly or not, anyone that had objections with what that state was doing was going to shoot at them.

I am not myself an extremist, but I find it not at all difficult to understand why they do the things they do nor do I find it particularly off-putting to sympathise with their perspectives.

[Gravlen]

Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, is not a drug dealer. The police did not suspect that he was drug dealer. The police believed, supposedly, that an ex-boyfriend of Taylor's, Jamarcus Glover, might have left proceeds from his drug dealing in Taylor's possession. He did not, by the way.

Breonna Taylor was the drug dealer, wasn't she?

I heard that she took part in Jamarcus' wholesale operation.

Who keeps telling you things that are false? And why do you come here to repost the falsehoods without bothering to even do a cursory check of the veracity of the information?

[Kalaron]

Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, is not a drug dealer. The police did not suspect that he was drug dealer. The police believed, supposedly, that an ex-boyfriend of Taylor's, Jamarcus Glover, might have left proceeds from his drug dealing in Taylor's possession. He did not, by the way.

Breonna Taylor was the drug dealer, wasn't she?

I heard that she took part in Jamarcus' wholesale operation.

Presuming that was her Ex's name, then "yes", kinda. She took part insofar as she knew the existence of the Drug-house, and his associates, and held his money. She did not deal drugs. This is all from the Leak, as well, and so remains subject to being proven or disproven.

[Senawka]

Who keeps telling you things that are false?

Anonymous sources.

And why do you come here to repost the falsehoods without bothering to even do a cursory check of the veracity of the information?

It's not false. She was the keeper of the money that this Jamarcus character made from selling drugs.

Presuming that was her Ex's name, then "yes", kinda. She took part insofar as she knew the existence of the Drug-house, and his associates, and held his money. She did not deal drugs. This is all from the Leak, as well, and so remains subject to being proven or disproven.

Oh look, Relden is right again!

[Kalaron]

Who keeps telling you things that are false?

Anonymous sources.

And why do you come here to repost the falsehoods without bothering to even do a cursory check of the veracity of the information?

It's not false. She was the keeper of the money that this Jamarcus character made from selling drugs.

Presuming that was her Ex's name, then "yes", kinda. She took part insofar as she knew the existence of the Drug-house, and his associates, and held his money. She did not deal drugs. This is all from the Leak, as well, and so remains subject to being proven or disproven.

Oh look, Relden is right again!

That's a bit of a leap.

[Ifreann]

Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, is not a drug dealer. The police did not suspect that he was drug dealer. The police believed, supposedly, that an ex-boyfriend of Taylor's, Jamarcus Glover, might have left proceeds from his drug dealing in Taylor's possession. He did not, by the way.

Breonna Taylor was the drug dealer, wasn't she?

No.

I heard that she took part in Jamarcus' wholesale operation.

Then you heard wrong.

[Kalaron]

Breonna Taylor was the drug dealer, wasn't she?

No.

I heard that she took part in Jamarcus' wholesale operation.

Then you heard wrong.

Not quite right, she was involved in certain aspects supposedly, I'd argue enough to call her at least complict, but you are correct in that describing her as a Drug Dealer is wrong in the extreme.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

The claim made was “Taylor was a drug dealer,” which when pressed got creatively reinterpreted to “the balance of the evidence is that Taylor was most likely peripherally involved in drug dealing”.

I believe we call this rhetorical device a motte-and-bailey tactic. Saying something that can be interpreted as something that is definitely true with the intention of implying a much more expansive - and also false - claim.

[Senawka]

That's a bit of a leap.

It absolutely is not a bit of a leap.

Then you heard wrong.

No, i did not.

I thought she was a drug dealer. It turned out she was just an essential part of a drug operation.

[Gravlen]

Who keeps telling you things that are false?

Anonymous sources.

Are you listening to your own ass again?

And why do you come here to repost the falsehoods without bothering to even do a cursory check of the veracity of the information?

It's not false. She was the keeper of the money that this Jamarcus character made from selling drugs.

The police have provided no evidence of that claim, didn't make that claim in their warrant, didn't find any money during their investigation, and Glover has denied that Taylor had any of his money.

Presuming that was her Ex's name, then "yes", kinda. She took part insofar as she knew the existence of the Drug-house, and his associates, and held his money. She did not deal drugs. This is all from the Leak, as well, and so remains subject to being proven or disproven.

Oh look, Relden is right again![/quote]
You spelt "wrong" incorrectly.

[Senawka]

Are you listening to your own ass again?

If i said this, somebody would report me and i would be banned.

[Ifreann]

The claim made was “Taylor was a drug dealer,” which when pressed got creatively reinterpreted to “the balance of the evidence is that Taylor was most likely peripherally involved in drug dealing”.

I believe we call this rhetorical device a motte-and-bailey tactic. Saying something that can be interpreted as something that is definitely true with the intention of implying a much more expansive - and also false - claim.

The claim was initially made that Kenneth Walker is a drug dealer and as such had no right to defend himself against the police.

---

That's a bit of a leap.

It absolutely is not a bit of a leap.

Then you heard wrong.

No, i did not.

I thought she was a drug dealer. It turned out she was just an essential part of a drug operation.

I'm surprised that you're so opposed to the lawful exercise of the right to self defence.

[Diarcesia]

I heard that she took part in Jamarcus' wholesale operation.

This has "I heard Rittenhouse is a white supremacist" vibes.

[Gravlen]

That's a bit of a leap.

It absolutely is not a bit of a leap.

Then you heard wrong.

No, i did not.

I thought she was a drug dealer. It turned out she was just an essential part of a drug operation.

Says Fox News affiliate Fox 23:

Claim: Taylor lived with a drug dealer and was herself involved in dealing

Verdict: False

[Gravlen]

Are you listening to your own ass again?

If i said this, somebody would report me and i would be banned.

To pull (something) out of (one's) ass:

vulgar slang To completely fabricate or invent something; to draw something from little or no real evidence, facts, information,

[Senawka]

I'm surprised that you're so opposed to the lawful exercise of the right to self defence.

I'm not.

[Ifreann]

I'm surprised that you're so opposed to the lawful exercise of the right to self defence.

I'm not.

Sure seems like you are, because Walker did nothing wrong by acting to defend himself and his girlfriend, and you seem to be looking for some angle to argue that he did. It's especially weird that you think that being a criminal would mean that one has no right to self defence, as you are an admitted criminal yourself, and I'm sure that you don't think that you gave up the right to self defence when you started driving without a license and fleeing from the police when they try to pull you over.

[Kubra]

Hot take: Kyle Rittenhouse has done the smart thing by coming out and publicly supporting BLM.

Even if it is a sincere plea (which, based off the rest of what he is saying, there's no reason to doubt that), doing so muddies him in the culture war vortex that surrounds him. The right no longer see him as this perfect saint, the left no longer purely despise him as a guy who killed someone. He stops being centre of attention, he can fade back into obscurity and try to lead a normal life.

I doubt it, because in his spot, I'd be suing the shit out of those who defamed me. I'd also get a better attorney than Lin Wood, so he has to stay in the spotlight to clear his name. But you're right in that affirming support for nonviolent BLM protests was a chad move on Kyle's part, akin to him owning the prosecutor when Binger went into his mad video game rant.

I think the main takeaway from the case was that at no point did having a gun make anything better for anyone, they're probably going to be brought in even greater numbers to ritual protest.
That is of course everyone's fault, not just Rittenhouse.

If Kyle didn't have a gun, he'd be the one murdered by Rosenbaum, so I'd say that having a gun worked out quite well for Kyle.

So, Kyle Rittenhouse just got sentenced to a half-century of CPAC appearances. Poor guy.

I'm glad the guy's free, what he did was purely legal in the context of self-defence. Plus, there's one less child-rapist on this Earth, so I can't pretend I'm sad that Joseph Rosenbaum is dead.

However, the problem with this case is that, for many Americans (I speak of this topic exteriorly, as I am a Canadian) this trial creates the impression that a double standard exists when it comes to self-defence, a standard seemingly based on ethnicity.

Whether this standard really exists or not is debatable and contextual, but this trial just set a precedent regarding self-defence, and America must remember that precedent because if not, then there really will be a double standard, and from there, boy oh boy, the BLM protests are gonna look like a cakewalk compared to what'll happen in the streets.

The trial made it better, because now a lot of conservatives are moving to defend self-defense, irrespective of skin color, and the number of minority conservatives is growing, meaning that there are less odds of a minority being convicted for self-defense after this trial, than there were before it.

Let me put this to the thread. Do we think it would have been good if Rittenhouse had just gone home and not been in Kenosha at all that night?

If you do think that would have been good then I regret to inform you that you are VICTIM BLAMING and you HATE GUNS, you are saying that Rittenhouse TRIGGERED THE ATTACK with his presence, I can't believe you're being so TOXIC.

Or do we think it was good that he was in Kenosha? Well that is even WORSE, how can you support him being attacked by a RAPIST, how can you be glad that he's TRAUMATISED and his life has been RUINED, I can't believe you're being so TOXIC.

I'm appalled at all of you and you should all be ashamed to have any opinions about anything.

Should people go to riots? NO!

If people do go to riots, should they bring self-defense tools? YES!

So while going to the riot was a dumb move on Kyle's part, it wasn't illegal, and the gun actually helped him defend himself. It's not criminal to attend a riot, if you do so with peaceful intentions, and that's law in the US. Is it a dumb law? Arguably.

Frankly, we'll never know in Huber's case. In Grosskreutz's case, I feel bad for the dude, I think he was probably trying to do what he thought was right and had limited information.

I don't. He pointed his gun at a person who just had a violent confrontation. Furthermore, as Grosskreutz admitted on the stand, Kyle didn't fire until Grosskreutz pointed the gun at him, and de facto challenged him to a duel that Kyle won. I don't think that engaging in duels, at riots, is a good idea.

as I have said, death is generally a very rare occurrence at these sorts of events. Plenty of folks show up all piss and vinegar, but the resultant injuries tend to be minor.
And of course, as I said, Rittenhouse is not entirely to blame for the course of events, even on his own side. There were folks being really directly "fuck around and find out", who were unfortunately or *very* fortunately not jumped.

[Kalaron]

So, Kyle Rittenhouse just got sentenced to a half-century of CPAC appearances. Poor guy.

I'm glad the guy's free, what he did was purely legal in the context of self-defence. Plus, there's one less child-rapist on this Earth, so I can't pretend I'm sad that Joseph Rosenbaum is dead.

However, the problem with this case is that, for many Americans (I speak of this topic exteriorly, as I am a Canadian) this trial creates the impression that a double standard exists when it comes to self-defence, a standard seemingly based on ethnicity.

Whether this standard really exists or not is debatable and contextual, but this trial just set a precedent regarding self-defence, and America must remember that precedent because if not, then there really will be a double standard, and from there, boy oh boy, the BLM protests are gonna look like a cakewalk compared to what'll happen in the streets.

Honestly? I think the scary part is that everyone involved is walking away convinced they're perfectly right, and that involves other cases too.
Next time a Prosecutor transparently abuses a black Defendant's rights, the worst of the Conservatives are going to ask why people care, the same people who'll be complaining ignored what happened to Kyle to such a degree they're outright saying it was rigged for him, in their eyes. Same in reverse, there's gonna be a lot of yelling next time a white, conservative Pastor sits in for a murder case, or god-forbid, 100 white pastors. Or even worse, one of the televangelists.

[Rusozak]

I'm surprised that you're so opposed to the lawful exercise of the right to self defence.

I'm not.

Just when they're white, right? That confederate flag makes me think so.

[Shofercia]

When I go dancing, girls tell me that I'm a riot

No, they're just rioting because you're there ;P

Be sure to pack some Mace.

The party don't start until I walk it

People gamble on everything, including Jury Deliberations. I had a bet that Rosenbaum was decided on the last day of deliberation. Won it!

Okay, that's a new one. This really is a non-typical place for political discourse.... aside from perhaps /pol-chan

I don't do it on NSG, I think gambling's illegal here.

as I have said, death is generally a very rare occurrence at these sorts of events. Plenty of folks show up all piss and vinegar, but the resultant injuries tend to be minor.
And of course, as I said, Rittenhouse is not entirely to blame for the course of events, even on his own side. There were folks being really directly "fuck around and find out", who were unfortunately or *very* fortunately not jumped.

I don't hold Rittenhouse at fault for the killings, not even a bit. Yes, showing up at a riot was dumb, but plenty of us do dumb things that don't result in deaths. Those who were responsible for instigating the killings were the ones who were killed/injured/shot at.

So, Kyle Rittenhouse just got sentenced to a half-century of CPAC appearances. Poor guy.

I'm glad the guy's free, what he did was purely legal in the context of self-defence. Plus, there's one less child-rapist on this Earth, so I can't pretend I'm sad that Joseph Rosenbaum is dead.

However, the problem with this case is that, for many Americans (I speak of this topic exteriorly, as I am a Canadian) this trial creates the impression that a double standard exists when it comes to self-defence, a standard seemingly based on ethnicity.

Whether this standard really exists or not is debatable and contextual, but this trial just set a precedent regarding self-defence, and America must remember that precedent because if not, then there really will be a double standard, and from there, boy oh boy, the BLM protests are gonna look like a cakewalk compared to what'll happen in the streets.

Honestly? I think the scary part is that everyone involved is walking away convinced they're perfectly right, and that involves other cases too.
Next time a Prosecutor transparently abuses a black Defendant's rights, the worst of the Conservatives are going to ask why people care, the same people who'll be complaining ignored what happened to Kyle to such a degree they're outright saying it was rigged for him, in their eyes. Same in reverse, there's gonna be a lot of yelling next time a white, conservative Pastor sits in for a murder case, or god-forbid, 100 white pastors. Or even worse, one of the televangelists.

The extreme majority of conservatives that I know would've treated a black or Latino defendant the exact same way. Kyle's case is as clear cut a case of self-defense as you can possibility get, even when state line crossings are taken into account. He only fired when he was attacked. He didn't shoot at a single innocent person. He fired accurately. He didn't kill Gaige when he had the chance. What more could he have done, aside from magically vanishing into thin air or forcing himself to take a beating and risk death and/or permanent injury. And Binger showed us all a damn good reason for prosecutorial reform, the way he pissed on the Fifth Amendment was despicable.

[Kalaron]

No, they're just rioting because you're there ;P

Be sure to pack some Mace.

The party don't start until I walk it

Okay, that's a new one. This really is a non-typical place for political discourse.... aside from perhaps /pol-chan

I don't do it on NSG, I think gambling's illegal here.

as I have said, death is generally a very rare occurrence at these sorts of events. Plenty of folks show up all piss and vinegar, but the resultant injuries tend to be minor.
And of course, as I said, Rittenhouse is not entirely to blame for the course of events, even on his own side. There were folks being really directly "fuck around and find out", who were unfortunately or *very* fortunately not jumped.

I don't hold Rittenhouse at fault for the killings, not even a bit. Yes, showing up at a riot was dumb, but plenty of us do dumb things that don't result in deaths. Those who were responsible for instigating the killings were the ones who were killed/injured/shot at.

Honestly? I think the scary part is that everyone involved is walking away convinced they're perfectly right, and that involves other cases too.
Next time a Prosecutor transparently abuses a black Defendant's rights, the worst of the Conservatives are going to ask why people care, the same people who'll be complaining ignored what happened to Kyle to such a degree they're outright saying it was rigged for him, in their eyes. Same in reverse, there's gonna be a lot of yelling next time a white, conservative Pastor sits in for a murder case, or god-forbid, 100 white pastors. Or even worse, one of the televangelists.

The extreme majority of conservatives that I know would've treated a black or Latino defendant the exact same way. Kyle's case is as clear cut a case of self-defense as you can possibility get, even when state line crossings are taken into account. He only fired when he was attacked. He didn't shoot at a single innocent person. He fired accurately. He didn't kill Gaige when he had the chance. What more could he have done, aside from magically vanishing into thin air or forcing himself to take a beating and risk death and/or permanent injury. And Binger showed us all a damn good reason for prosecutorial reform, the way he pissed on the Fifth Amendment was despicable.

Right, like I said, the *worst* of the Conservatives will be the ones to ask why they care, but I honestly think it'll grow over time for each side.

[Celritannia]

I'm not.

Sure seems like you are, because Walker did nothing wrong by acting to defend himself and his girlfriend, and you seem to be looking for some angle to argue that he did. It's especially weird that you think that being a criminal would mean that one has no right to self defence, as you are an admitted criminal yourself, and I'm sure that you don't think that you gave up the right to self defence when you started driving without a license and fleeing from the police when they try to pull you over.

You are trying to debate with someone who has an oxymoronic symbol on his flag. The traitorous Virginian Battle Flag crossed with the rightful flag of the US.