Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

[Kubra]

Can't believe some people are actually going with the "Should have just let his ass get kicked and hope someone sticks up for him or he doesn't die" line lmao.

You're referring to me, yeah?

[Dreria]

I feel sorry for Huber.

The guy who threatened to stab his own brother over a messy room

the majority of brothers have done this tbf

[Immortan Khan]

Can't believe some people are actually going with the "Should have just let his ass get kicked and hope someone sticks up for him or he doesn't die" line lmao.

You're referring to me, yeah?

More than one poster actually. But hey if you wanna include yourself, go right ahead.

[American Legionaries]

I feel sorry for Huber.

The guy who threatened to stab his own brother over a messy room and also threatened to burn his family alive? Also had domestic abuse charges against him.

It's possible to feel sorry for people who aren't perfect little angels

[Kubra]

You're referring to me, yeah?

More than one poster actually. But hey if you wanna include yourself, go right ahead.

I don't think I have been, at least not in the sense you seem to be saying it. Come now, it don't hurt to specific, yeah?

[Thermodolia]

You’ve clearly never been in a street fight have you?

What can I say? Just one in this context, and certainly not one as intense as you folks got down south. As for regular ol' streetfights, a couple, but they're not really comparable, are they?
Less organised, more spontaneous. Advanced age means I can sit back, compare personal experience to reports of similar situations elsewhere, and draw conclusions, without having to travel the protest circuit and get my hands dirty.
Besides, you're not yourself a prime candidate for being involved in this sort of thing, are you?

I’ve gotten involved in a few fights, I’ve also had to break up a few fights too. Not exactly the easiest thing to do

[Galactic Transylvania]

The guy who threatened to stab his own brother over a messy room and also threatened to burn his family alive? Also had domestic abuse charges against him.

It's possible to feel sorry for people who aren't perfect little angels

There's loads of space between "not being perfect" and "threatening to stab someone."

[Kubra]

What can I say? Just one in this context, and certainly not one as intense as you folks got down south. As for regular ol' streetfights, a couple, but they're not really comparable, are they?
Less organised, more spontaneous. Advanced age means I can sit back, compare personal experience to reports of similar situations elsewhere, and draw conclusions, without having to travel the protest circuit and get my hands dirty.
Besides, you're not yourself a prime candidate for being involved in this sort of thing, are you?

I’ve gotten involved in a few fights, I’ve also had to break up a few fights too. Not exactly the easiest thing to do

But have you done the protest circuit?
I ain't exactly a reg to this shit, far much less now, but protest/riot violence is generally a somewhat different beast with someone different rules and conditions. I'm unfortunately not from Vancouver and was too young for the local hockey riots, so I can't give anecdotal comparisons for that particular form.

[Thermodolia]

It's possible to feel sorry for people who aren't perfect little angels

There's loads of space between "not being perfect" and "threatening to stab someone."

I think you mean threatening to “gut his brother like a fish” for not cleaning his room and threatening to “burn the entire house down with the family inside alive”

[Thermodolia]

I’ve gotten involved in a few fights, I’ve also had to break up a few fights too. Not exactly the easiest thing to do

But have you done the protest circuit?

Only behind the line of swat and riot cops.

[Kubra]

But have you done the protest circuit?

Only behind the line of swat and riot cops.

As a cop, or as an observer?

[Galactic Transylvania]

There's loads of space between "not being perfect" and "threatening to stab someone."

I think you mean threatening to “gut his brother like a fish” for not cleaning his room and threatening to “burn the entire house down with the family inside alive”

Yeah.

And we aren't even discussing the child rapist yet.

[American Legionaries]

It's possible to feel sorry for people who aren't perfect little angels

There's loads of space between "not being perfect" and "threatening to stab someone."

That's not evidence of his intent and state of mind that night.

[Galactic Transylvania]

There's loads of space between "not being perfect" and "threatening to stab someone."

That's not evidence of his intent and state of mind that night.

No. But I would say decking Kyle with a skateboard is a pretty good indicator of his intent and state of mind.

[Thermodolia]

Only behind the line of swat and riot cops.

As a cop, or as an observer?

Just an observer

[Kubra]

As a cop, or as an observer?

Just an observer

Ok. Just clarifying, no big deal either way.
In any case, you've surely observed that there is a general tendency in the protesters side to stick close when not outright dispersed, right?

[Galloism]

Can't believe some people are actually going with the "Should have just let his ass get kicked and hope someone sticks up for him or he doesn't die" line lmao.

Notably, “some people” also includes Assistant District Attorney Kraus, during the rebuttal argument in closing.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

Same. Not to mention the whole straw purchase thing. Balch is well fishy

Kinda smells like a walt or a true-blue-falcon.

[The Two Jerseys]

Well shit, really? Stupid fucks, I stand corrected. I guess it was not him breaking cardinal rules. Thank you for the correction.
In any case, I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming the kid. Even if he were the one to isolate himself, he was 17 years old and at his first shindig. It ain't supposed to go well, like a first day at a new job. I only wanna give y'all tips if you decide this is something you ever wanted to do. This dumb shit ain't worth your life or court, so take appropriate steps.

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

An abandoned battle buddy?

I hear angry drill sergeant noises...

[Fahran]

I don't think that is anything to do with toxic masculinity. The only time I have heard of someone refusing to defend themselves, and therefore get beat up, it was a woman cop.

I'm specifically replying to people accusing Americans of being soft for pointing out that a blunt object can constitute a deadly weapon and the prosecution's closing argument that "we all take beatings sometimes." These are pretty blatant examples of toxic masculinity when the implicit expectation is that a teenage boy allow himself to be jumped by a mob of people because responding to lethal force with lethal force is "soft", "unmanly", or "an overreaction." Note these are all phrases we use in describing boys who do not adhere to traditional gender norms and, funnily enough, to women and girls.

[Fahran]

Let me put this to the thread. Do we think it would have been good if Rittenhouse had just gone home and not been in Kenosha at all that night?

Yes. It also would have been great if nobody engaged in violence at all. It also would have been great if people had heeded the curfew imposed in Kenosha. It also would have been great if the hospital had not released a mentally ill men, who had just attempted suicide, onto the street amid social unrest. It also would have been great if Rosenbaum and Grosskreutz had been incarcerated for their history of physical and sexual violence.

The basic point you made at the beginning is false though. Rittenhouse was absolutely better off because he was armed because he would not have been able to defend himself against Rosenbaum (and others) unarmed and alone.

If you do think that would have been good then I regret to inform you that you are VICTIM BLAMING and you HATE GUNS, you are saying that Rittenhouse TRIGGERED THE ATTACK with his presence, I can't believe you're being so TOXIC.

It's more the fact that there's no evidence Rittenhouse being armed instigated the assault against him. The two theories that seem best-supported are that Rosenbaum was mentally ill, quite possibly manic or suicidal, or that Rosenbaum was retaliating against Rittenhouse for extinguishing the fires he had illegaly set - quite possibly with the intention of trying to set a gas station on fire. Luckily, that would have been impossible, but neither Rittenhouse nor Rosenbaum necessarily knew that.

Or do we think it was good that he was in Kenosha? Well that is even WORSE, how can you support him being attacked by a RAPIST, how can you be glad that he's TRAUMATISED and his life has been RUINED, I can't believe you're being so TOXIC.

He was allowed to be in Kenosha. He was allowed to be armed. He was allowed to defend himself. All of those would have been fine if other people had not done things they legally aren't allowed to do. I mean... yes, one can assert that we shouldn't attend BLM rallies, even when we support BLM, because they tend to devolve into riots at higher rates than other political demonstrations, but I don't think you actually want to make that argument.

[The Black Forrest]

I mean... yes, one can assert that we shouldn't attend BLM rallies, even when we support BLM, because they tend to devolve into riots at higher rates than other political demonstrations, but I don't think you actually want to make that argument.

That can be said of any rally or political demonstration. You will always have people who only want to break, burn and steal.

Point made is nobody expected the kid to grab his gun and sing “Here I am to save the day!”

[The Lone Alliance]

The real thing to point out that for the most part the situation in Kenosha up until the addition of Rosenbaum was mutual deterrence between the Militias and the rioters. You remove Rosenbaum it's highly likely nothing would have happened.

I mean... yes, one can assert that we shouldn't attend BLM rallies, even when we support BLM, because they tend to devolve into riots at higher rates than other political demonstrations, but I don't think you actually want to make that argument.

That can be said of any rally or political demonstration. You will always have people who only want to break, burn and steal.

Point made is nobody expected the kid to grab his gun and sing “Here I am to save the day!”

Even people who want to break, burn, and steal don't want to die for it. And that's why deterrence works against them, the only thing deterrence doesn't work on are people who are simply so crazy that they don't care if they die or not.

Which Rosenbaum might have been.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Cause is not responsibility. If I leave my door open in a bad neighbourhood then it is probable that nefarious things will be done to my property, but just because I have caused that to happen does not mean that I am responsible for it. Cause is a straightforwards matter of objective and observable reality. Responsibility is a social construct that sits on a great deal of history and complexity. It is prudent for me to keep my door locked, not because I am in any way responsible for the consequences of not doing so, but because it is me who will be suffering those consequences, regardless of whether or not I am in any way responsible for them.

I am inclined to side with Ifreann that bringing a rifle to a demonstration was one of the causes (one of many causes, because we live in the real world and not in a physicist’s dream of spherical frictionless cows) that allowed this entire unfortunate affair to happen; someone holding a rifle, which is instant lethality at a range, forced the people concerned to make poorly thought out snap judgements, which is what got Huber killed. Similar, analogously, for Grosskreutz’ pistol and his missing right bicep (a reasonable person doesn’t engage in dialogue to affirm that the pistol being pointed at them isn’t a misunderstanding; a reasonable person in such a situation shoots first and ascertains intentions later).

This does not imply, and I do not believe that Ifreann meant it to imply, that Rittenhouse is responsible for Huber’s death in either a legal (as was demonstrated so clearly in the courtroom) or a moral sense, nor that Grosskreutz is responsible in either of those senses for getting himself shot.

[Fahran]

That can be said of any rally or political demonstration. You will always have people who only want to break, burn and steal.

The logic then becomes that people shouldn't participate in rallies and political demonstrations if they don't want to be assaulted by violent mentally ill men. With that said, BLM rallies devolve into riots around 7% of the time according to the sources posted last year with the intention of demonstrating that the "mostly peaceful" narrative was correct. That's... a really high rate of violence. It may be symptomatic of the fact that our country is becoming increasingly polarized and increasingly comfortable with casual use of political violence. There's also other factors that play into this relating to the particular history of racial protests - which I need to pull some sources on again if Kowani doesn't beat me to it first.

Point made is nobody expected the kid to grab his gun and sing “Here I am to save the day!”

I mean... we've been celebrating children attending political rallies of late. From Greta to children demonstrating outside of high schools against gun violence. I'm not certain what difference legally carrying a firearm makes here. People carry at protests all the time. Grosskreutz was actually carrying illegally at the same protest. The father-daughter duo is carrying legally at BLM protests as well - for more openly adversarial reasons than Rittenhouse notably. I think Euros, in particular, are making a bigger deal out of the gun than is logical based on what we know. Which might be cultural.