Advertisement
by Galloism » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:43 pm
by Fahran » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:47 pm
Galloism wrote:V radio interviewed Grambo
My opinion: V Radio isn't a very good interviewer. He talks too much and doesn't let the interviewee talk enough. Should stick to documentaries.
Now that we're past my opinion, she shared a few extra details from Kenosha that night.
It looks like "they" (unclear whether or not it included Rittenhouse) did point their guns at yellow pants man. He had gotten on top of a vehicle, yelled Black Lives Matter, then very suddenly pulled a gun out of his pants, which resulted in them pointing their guns at him. When he lowered his gun to his side, they lowered theirs.
Also, the prosecution made a big deal of people pointing laser pointers at the protestors. According to Grambo, this was done mostly by the people in the apartment building one block over (not sure I'm 100% on board with that assertion - I'm not sure I could hit a person with a hand-held laser pointer one block away with any kind of consistency, but, admittedly, I haven't tried). She had spoken with the people in that apartment building, a lot of whom were armed and on their balconies. Apparently, the previous night, someone had tried to burn down the apartment building with people inside.
She also made a comment that there were a lot of kids out there as young as 13 smashing up businesses and burning cars, specifying that the "child-like giggling" was a dead giveaway when they ran some of them off.
She also talked about a 71 year old man the previous night who had a fire extinguisher and was beaten by the mob and hospitalized with a broken jaw.
She also talked about Rosenbaum threatening to kill her and yelling the n word everywhere, which was apparently even surprising to many of the protestors. She referred to some of the faces they made when he showed up and started yelling murderous threats and yelling the n word everywhere.
by Galloism » Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:36 pm
Fahran wrote:The police really should have stepped in and dispersed the rioters. It would have prevented many of the tragedies that occurred. I have no idea why we need to abide seniors getting beaten or arsonists trying to set apartment buildings alight with the inhabitants still inside. It's a wonder more of the rioters weren't shot if these statements are even close to true - which is, admittedly, a very big and charitable assumption.
EDIT: Oof. She didn't have to literally quote Rosenbaum...
by Grinning Dragon » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:07 pm
Fahran wrote:Galloism wrote:V radio interviewed Grambo
My opinion: V Radio isn't a very good interviewer. He talks too much and doesn't let the interviewee talk enough. Should stick to documentaries.
Now that we're past my opinion, she shared a few extra details from Kenosha that night.
It looks like "they" (unclear whether or not it included Rittenhouse) did point their guns at yellow pants man. He had gotten on top of a vehicle, yelled Black Lives Matter, then very suddenly pulled a gun out of his pants, which resulted in them pointing their guns at him. When he lowered his gun to his side, they lowered theirs.
Also, the prosecution made a big deal of people pointing laser pointers at the protestors. According to Grambo, this was done mostly by the people in the apartment building one block over (not sure I'm 100% on board with that assertion - I'm not sure I could hit a person with a hand-held laser pointer one block away with any kind of consistency, but, admittedly, I haven't tried). She had spoken with the people in that apartment building, a lot of whom were armed and on their balconies. Apparently, the previous night, someone had tried to burn down the apartment building with people inside.
She also made a comment that there were a lot of kids out there as young as 13 smashing up businesses and burning cars, specifying that the "child-like giggling" was a dead giveaway when they ran some of them off.
She also talked about a 71 year old man the previous night who had a fire extinguisher and was beaten by the mob and hospitalized with a broken jaw.
She also talked about Rosenbaum threatening to kill her and yelling the n word everywhere, which was apparently even surprising to many of the protestors. She referred to some of the faces they made when he showed up and started yelling murderous threats and yelling the n word everywhere.
The police really should have stepped in and dispersed the rioters. It would have prevented many of the tragedies that occurred. I have no idea why we need to abide seniors getting beaten or arsonists trying to set apartment buildings alight with the inhabitants still inside. It's a wonder more of the rioters weren't shot if these statements are even close to true - which is, admittedly, a very big and charitable assumption.
EDIT: Oof. She didn't have to literally quote Rosenbaum...
by Fahran » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:24 pm
Grinning Dragon wrote:TBH, one would be justified in shooting a shitbrick(s) that was attempting to set an occupied dwelling a blaze.
by Hurtful Thoughts » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:34 pm
Fahran wrote:Grinning Dragon wrote:TBH, one would be justified in shooting a shitbrick(s) that was attempting to set an occupied dwelling a blaze.
I would consider it a violent act, but I'm not really certain about what the law has to say regarding meeting such violence with lethal force. While the general thrust of the media narrative has been that this might incite right-wing violence against (violent) left-wing protestors, it's quite possible that the coverage and discourse surrounding this incident could lead to hesitance as well - at least among more cautious persons. I can't comment on if the media is genuinely concerned about peaceful left-wing protestors getting murdered or about Antifa and Black Bloc types facing stiffer and lethal resistance from communities that they brutalize and militias that show up to counter-demonstrate them. I suppose the charitable approach is to assume they were/are ignorant of the facts or assume right-wingers are ignorant of the facts and will treat ALL protestors with violence more eagerly, and charity is usually good.
One thing that concerns me is that children even younger than Rittenhouse were running around committing arson in a situation where both left-wing and right-wing demonstrators had firearms and where tear gas was used. What were parents thinking?
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War
Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....
by The Two Jerseys » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:56 pm
Fahran wrote:Grinning Dragon wrote:TBH, one would be justified in shooting a shitbrick(s) that was attempting to set an occupied dwelling a blaze.
I would consider it a violent act, but I'm not really certain about what the law has to say regarding meeting such violence with lethal force. While the general thrust of the media narrative has been that this might incite right-wing violence against (violent) left-wing protestors, it's quite possible that the coverage and discourse surrounding this incident could lead to hesitance as well - at least among more cautious persons. I can't comment on if the media is genuinely concerned about peaceful left-wing protestors getting murdered or about Antifa and Black Bloc types facing stiffer and lethal resistance from communities that they brutalize and militias that show up to counter-demonstrate them. I suppose the charitable approach is to assume they were/are ignorant of the facts or assume right-wingers are ignorant of the facts and will treat ALL protestors with violence more eagerly, and charity is usually good.
One thing that concerns me is that children even younger than Rittenhouse were running around committing arson in a situation where both left-wing and right-wing demonstrators had firearms and where tear gas was used. What were parents thinking?
by Kalaron » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:55 am
Vassenor wrote:Kalaron wrote:Sorta interesting thing, I've gotten way further in getting my mom to question CNN and the other neoliberal media with the Rittenhouse case than I have with other stuff. Like, she has a weird way of idolizing the people those Networks bring in, where she'll argue with me on something (even if I have proof) because the "experts already talked about it".
Anyhow, I've been combing Twitter, finding statements by those same experts and talking heads, and showing her their reaction to him walking to showcase how inflammatory they can get.
And what are we defining as "inflamatory" today?
by Galloism » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:16 am
Tetosv wrote:Rittenhouse is also charged with endangering the safety of a reporter for The Daily Caller who was recording from nearby when Rosenbaum was shot and an unidentified man Rittenhouse shot at as the man tried to kick him.
by Kubra » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:23 am
They were dispersing the protesters, the problem was they were dispersing them in the direction of the fellas guarding the place.Fahran wrote:Galloism wrote:V radio interviewed Grambo
My opinion: V Radio isn't a very good interviewer. He talks too much and doesn't let the interviewee talk enough. Should stick to documentaries.
Now that we're past my opinion, she shared a few extra details from Kenosha that night.
It looks like "they" (unclear whether or not it included Rittenhouse) did point their guns at yellow pants man. He had gotten on top of a vehicle, yelled Black Lives Matter, then very suddenly pulled a gun out of his pants, which resulted in them pointing their guns at him. When he lowered his gun to his side, they lowered theirs.
Also, the prosecution made a big deal of people pointing laser pointers at the protestors. According to Grambo, this was done mostly by the people in the apartment building one block over (not sure I'm 100% on board with that assertion - I'm not sure I could hit a person with a hand-held laser pointer one block away with any kind of consistency, but, admittedly, I haven't tried). She had spoken with the people in that apartment building, a lot of whom were armed and on their balconies. Apparently, the previous night, someone had tried to burn down the apartment building with people inside.
She also made a comment that there were a lot of kids out there as young as 13 smashing up businesses and burning cars, specifying that the "child-like giggling" was a dead giveaway when they ran some of them off.
She also talked about a 71 year old man the previous night who had a fire extinguisher and was beaten by the mob and hospitalized with a broken jaw.
She also talked about Rosenbaum threatening to kill her and yelling the n word everywhere, which was apparently even surprising to many of the protestors. She referred to some of the faces they made when he showed up and started yelling murderous threats and yelling the n word everywhere.
The police really should have stepped in and dispersed the rioters. It would have prevented many of the tragedies that occurred. I have no idea why we need to abide seniors getting beaten or arsonists trying to set apartment buildings alight with the inhabitants still inside. It's a wonder more of the rioters weren't shot if these statements are even close to true - which is, admittedly, a very big and charitable assumption.
EDIT: Oof. She didn't have to literally quote Rosenbaum...
by Haganham » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:17 am
Kubra wrote:They were dispersing the protesters, the problem was they were dispersing them in the direction of the fellas guarding the place.Fahran wrote:The police really should have stepped in and dispersed the rioters. It would have prevented many of the tragedies that occurred. I have no idea why we need to abide seniors getting beaten or arsonists trying to set apartment buildings alight with the inhabitants still inside. It's a wonder more of the rioters weren't shot if these statements are even close to true - which is, admittedly, a very big and charitable assumption.
EDIT: Oof. She didn't have to literally quote Rosenbaum...
This is generally contrary to what is "supposed" to happen in these situations, discernible sides are usually kept as separate as possible because, well, you know.
by Kalaron » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:09 am
by The Two Jerseys » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:18 am
Kalaron wrote:So, I've been thinking about the case, and I actually question the logic of the "If he were black" arguement?
If he were black, and presuming he got to the Trial intact and that all details are otherwise the same, then the case seems like it'd let a Black Defendant off *really fast*. Like, he'd have been chased by a dude who had screamed racial slur ladden threats while he pleaded with him to not chase him, then after being forced to shoot, he was chased by a *mob* (I doubt I need to clarify, but the argument "I was being chased by a lynch mob" comes to mind) and attacked by two other individuals who assumed that he was the Agressor and decided to physically strike him as though they were law enforcement figures, and not just men in a riot.
I grok that juries and judges are people, they're often crap at consistency, but it feels like for the race arguement to work there'd need to be way lesser charges from the start?
by Gravlen » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:41 am
Kalaron wrote:So, I've been thinking about the case, and I actually question the logic of the "If he were black" arguement?
If he were black, and presuming he got to the Trial intact and that all details are otherwise the same, then the case seems like it'd let a Black Defendant off *really fast*. Like, he'd have been chased by a dude who had screamed racial slur ladden threats while he pleaded with him to not chase him, then after being forced to shoot, he was chased by a *mob* (I doubt I need to clarify, but the argument "I was being chased by a lynch mob" comes to mind) and attacked by two other individuals who assumed that he was the Agressor and decided to physically strike him as though they were law enforcement figures, and not just men in a riot.
I grok that juries and judges are people, they're often crap at consistency, but it feels like for the race arguement to work there'd need to be way lesser charges from the start?
by Gravlen » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:55 am
About 24 minutes into the podcast “You Are Here” on the right-wing network the Blaze on Monday night, co-host Sydney Watson told her guest, Kyle Rittenhouse, that it was “kind of impressive” that “of all the people that you shot at, you killed probably two of the worst on the planet.”
She was referring to 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum and 26-year-old Anthony Huber, the men whom Rittenhouse shot and killed in Kenosha, Wis., in August 2020. Conservative commentators have highlighted that both Rosenbaum and Huber had criminal backgrounds and served prison sentences. Last month, Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all charges related to the shootings.
“Congratulations,” Watson said Monday to Rittenhouse. “Good job, you.”
Rittenhouse, 18, responded that the killings were “nothing to be congratulated about.”
“Like, if I could go back, I wish I would never have had to take somebody’s life,” he said.
Despite the offers from members of Congress, Rittenhouse told NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield he’s not interested in entering politics “at all.”
Rittenhouse said during the podcast on Monday that he will attend Arizona State University in the spring. Despite Rittenhouse saying on the stand that he was a student there, university officials told AZCentral last week that he is not currently enrolled.
Responding a listener’s question, Rittenhouse also said on the podcast that he plans to destroy the rifle he used in Kenosha.
“You’re not going to, like, sell it?” Watson asked, suggesting to Rittenhouse that he could make a lot of money.
“We’re just having it destroyed,” Rittenhouse reiterated. “I think that’s the best thing, and that’s what I want to do with it.”
by Kubra » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:01 am
They were the dudes hanging out at quite a distance from the protest with, you know, rifles, many much more intent on more "counterprotestor" sort of behaviour than Rittenhouse. They didn't interact until the protestors had been sent in their direction.Haganham wrote:Kubra wrote: They were dispersing the protesters, the problem was they were dispersing them in the direction of the fellas guarding the place.
This is generally contrary to what is "supposed" to happen in these situations, discernible sides are usually kept as separate as possible because, well, you know.
were these guys discernible though, from what I understand Rittenhouse had gone to give aid to the protesters.
by Grinning Dragon » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:15 am
Gravlen wrote:About 24 minutes into the podcast “You Are Here” on the right-wing network the Blaze on Monday night, co-host Sydney Watson told her guest, Kyle Rittenhouse, that it was “kind of impressive” that “of all the people that you shot at, you killed probably two of the worst on the planet.”
She was referring to 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum and 26-year-old Anthony Huber, the men whom Rittenhouse shot and killed in Kenosha, Wis., in August 2020. Conservative commentators have highlighted that both Rosenbaum and Huber had criminal backgrounds and served prison sentences. Last month, Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all charges related to the shootings.
“Congratulations,” Watson said Monday to Rittenhouse. “Good job, you.”
Rittenhouse, 18, responded that the killings were “nothing to be congratulated about.”
“Like, if I could go back, I wish I would never have had to take somebody’s life,” he said.Despite the offers from members of Congress, Rittenhouse told NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield he’s not interested in entering politics “at all.”
Rittenhouse said during the podcast on Monday that he will attend Arizona State University in the spring. Despite Rittenhouse saying on the stand that he was a student there, university officials told AZCentral last week that he is not currently enrolled.
Responding a listener’s question, Rittenhouse also said on the podcast that he plans to destroy the rifle he used in Kenosha.
“You’re not going to, like, sell it?” Watson asked, suggesting to Rittenhouse that he could make a lot of money.
“We’re just having it destroyed,” Rittenhouse reiterated. “I think that’s the best thing, and that’s what I want to do with it.”
Good answers from Rittenhouse.
I just hope he can stay away from unabashed assholes such as Sydney Watson in the future.
by Kalaron » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:27 am
Gravlen wrote:Kalaron wrote:So, I've been thinking about the case, and I actually question the logic of the "If he were black" arguement?
If he were black, and presuming he got to the Trial intact and that all details are otherwise the same, then the case seems like it'd let a Black Defendant off *really fast*. Like, he'd have been chased by a dude who had screamed racial slur ladden threats while he pleaded with him to not chase him, then after being forced to shoot, he was chased by a *mob* (I doubt I need to clarify, but the argument "I was being chased by a lynch mob" comes to mind) and attacked by two other individuals who assumed that he was the Agressor and decided to physically strike him as though they were law enforcement figures, and not just men in a riot.
I grok that juries and judges are people, they're often crap at consistency, but it feels like for the race arguement to work there'd need to be way lesser charges from the start?
That's skipping over the most salient question though:
If he were black, would he have gotten to the trial, intact or otherwise? Would all the details have been the same? This question spans the gamut from whether he'd be alive after the incident, to whether he would have a similar amount of funds raised for his defence, to whether he would have been allowed to go free on bail pending trial, to whether he would have succumbed to (more) pressure to take a plea deal.
The color of his skin has the potential to factor into so many things prior to getting to trial, even before we get to the question of whether the jury would have come to a different conclusion. It will for all time remain speculation, but considering the realities of the US criminal justice system, I do find it plausible that being Black could potentially have led to a different outcome at almost every single step along the way.
by Immortan Khan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:36 pm
Grinning Dragon wrote:Gravlen wrote:About 24 minutes into the podcast “You Are Here” on the right-wing network the Blaze on Monday night, co-host Sydney Watson told her guest, Kyle Rittenhouse, that it was “kind of impressive” that “of all the people that you shot at, you killed probably two of the worst on the planet.”
She was referring to 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum and 26-year-old Anthony Huber, the men whom Rittenhouse shot and killed in Kenosha, Wis., in August 2020. Conservative commentators have highlighted that both Rosenbaum and Huber had criminal backgrounds and served prison sentences. Last month, Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all charges related to the shootings.
“Congratulations,” Watson said Monday to Rittenhouse. “Good job, you.”
Rittenhouse, 18, responded that the killings were “nothing to be congratulated about.”
“Like, if I could go back, I wish I would never have had to take somebody’s life,” he said.Despite the offers from members of Congress, Rittenhouse told NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield he’s not interested in entering politics “at all.”
Rittenhouse said during the podcast on Monday that he will attend Arizona State University in the spring. Despite Rittenhouse saying on the stand that he was a student there, university officials told AZCentral last week that he is not currently enrolled.
Responding a listener’s question, Rittenhouse also said on the podcast that he plans to destroy the rifle he used in Kenosha.
“You’re not going to, like, sell it?” Watson asked, suggesting to Rittenhouse that he could make a lot of money.
“We’re just having it destroyed,” Rittenhouse reiterated. “I think that’s the best thing, and that’s what I want to do with it.”
Good answers from Rittenhouse.
I just hope he can stay away from unabashed assholes such as Sydney Watson in the future.
I read about kyle's intention of destroying that particular rifle last week, while I understand why, however I'd sell it for a pretty penny.
Wouldn't be a bad profit off of a $600 entry level rifle, I would garner a guess he could make double or triple.
by Immortan Khan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:40 pm
by The Lone Alliance » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:27 pm
Gravlen wrote:Good answers from Rittenhouse.
I just hope he can stay away from unabashed assholes such as Sydney Watson in the future.
The Alma Mater wrote:Kalaron wrote:Sorta interesting thing, I've gotten way further in getting my mom to question CNN and the other neoliberal media with the Rittenhouse case than I have with other stuff. Like, she has a weird way of idolizing the people those Networks bring in, where she'll argue with me on something (even if I have proof) because the "experts already talked about it".
Anyhow, I've been combing Twitter, finding statements by those same experts and talking heads, and showing her their reaction to him walking to showcase how inflammatory they can get.
Understandable - their reporting of this case was insanely bad. Down at the level ofregular reporting by Fox or OANN.
And I genuinely do not understand why.
by The Alma Mater » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:11 am
The Lone Alliance wrote:Because when the media is caught in a lie they have no choice but to double down.
by Hurtful Thoughts » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:40 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:The Lone Alliance wrote:Because when the media is caught in a lie they have no choice but to double down.
Why ? They could make a whole point of "we admit it when we were wrong" and add a little counter to show how often they were compared to competitors. Would be good advertising.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War
Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....
by Novus America » Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:12 pm
Gravlen wrote:Kalaron wrote:So, I've been thinking about the case, and I actually question the logic of the "If he were black" arguement?
If he were black, and presuming he got to the Trial intact and that all details are otherwise the same, then the case seems like it'd let a Black Defendant off *really fast*. Like, he'd have been chased by a dude who had screamed racial slur ladden threats while he pleaded with him to not chase him, then after being forced to shoot, he was chased by a *mob* (I doubt I need to clarify, but the argument "I was being chased by a lynch mob" comes to mind) and attacked by two other individuals who assumed that he was the Agressor and decided to physically strike him as though they were law enforcement figures, and not just men in a riot.
I grok that juries and judges are people, they're often crap at consistency, but it feels like for the race arguement to work there'd need to be way lesser charges from the start?
That's skipping over the most salient question though:
If he were black, would he have gotten to the trial, intact or otherwise? Would all the details have been the same? This question spans the gamut from whether he'd be alive after the incident, to whether he would have a similar amount of funds raised for his defence, to whether he would have been allowed to go free on bail pending trial, to whether he would have succumbed to (more) pressure to take a plea deal.
The color of his skin has the potential to factor into so many things prior to getting to trial, even before we get to the question of whether the jury would have come to a different conclusion. It will for all time remain speculation, but considering the realities of the US criminal justice system, I do find it plausible that being Black could potentially have led to a different outcome at almost every single step along the way.
by Haganham » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 pm
Novus America wrote:
But this is pure speculation. We do not know just based on this case alone. It would be better to actually look at cases where a black individual claimed self defense then look at a very similar case when a white person claimed it the speculate what would happen if Rittenhouse were black.
Now if you can find a cases with very similar facts except the person claiming self defense was black but was found guilty instead it might make an interesting comparison. Or perhaps someone could do a detailed study of what percentage of people claiming self defense are convicted, broken down by race. If you have such study I would very much like to see it.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Duvniask, GMS Greater Miami Shores 1, Neu California, Pingu 2nd, Tarsonis, Unmet Player
Advertisement