Do attacks on Liberal Icons Herald Doom of Democracy?

[The V I C]

Unreasonableness is when you don't admire someone who owned other humans as property and raped a little girl.
Yeah sure.

You're probably the most unreasonable person I've met, to the point where you don't even look at the post I quoted. Maybe shut up and read before you make an epic roast on nobody.

No I looked at the post. Its clear to me that you think anything that doesn't drown out jefferson's flaws with "the good things he did" is unreasonable.

[Risottia]

the Declaration of Independence, which, along with the Magna Carta and John Locke's Two Treatises of Government, is probably the most important document in the history of liberalism. The sentiments declared in the Declaration have gone on to inspire liberal movements across the six inhabited continents of the world, from the French Revolution to post-communist Poland.

Post-communist Poland? Liberal? Seriously? It's a semi-authoritarian regime founded on religious and ethnical identity and hell-bent on persecuting whomever is out of the prescribed norm.

[Kerwa]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

[Ifreann]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

[The North Polish Union]

the Declaration of Independence, which, along with the Magna Carta and John Locke's Two Treatises of Government, is probably the most important document in the history of liberalism. The sentiments declared in the Declaration have gone on to inspire liberal movements across the six inhabited continents of the world, from the French Revolution to post-communist Poland.

Post-communist Poland? Liberal? Seriously? It's a semi-authoritarian regime founded on religious and ethnical identity and hell-bent on persecuting whomever is out of the prescribed norm.

You may not like the current Polish government (and I often preferred the policies of the previous PO government myself) but that is no reason to lie about what it does.

[Kerwa]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

I support this statue.

[Neuer California]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Fred Rogers has a statue, though, and he was the exact opposite of a shit heel.

[Alvecia]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Hate to break it to you, but the greek pantheon is almost exclusively filled with shit heels.

[Vassenor]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Fred Rogers has a statue, though, and he was the exact opposite of a shit heel.

I think we're talking more politcal figure statues. Although the "pretty much = not all" rule applies.

[Kerwa]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Hate to break it to you, but the greek pantheon is almost exclusively filled with shit heels.

Yeah but fictional ones. It would be like getting mad at a statue of Blofeld from James Bond.

[Kerwa]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Fred Rogers has a statue, though, and he was the exact opposite of a shit heel.

Give it time.

[Alvecia]

Hate to break it to you, but the greek pantheon is almost exclusively filled with shit heels.

Yeah but fictional ones. It would be like getting mad at a statue of Blofeld from James Bond.

I think people would be just as against iconogrophy of fictional slaver-rapists as they would be against real ones. I don't think it's the fictional status that's the problem.

[Kubra]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Hate to break it to you, but the greek pantheon is almost exclusively filled with shit heels.

yeah but *fun* shitheels
the homeric epics would be fucking great adapted as a comedy sitcom.

[The Namibe Coast]

I think the Removal of statues is Entirely up to the Community. I see no purpose in making it a Nationwide issue. If the community, Say, Has alot of African-American Residents, then Yes, a Statue of Jefferson Davis should be removed. Of course, This is about "Liberal Icons", Which is entirely subjective to the Viewer. Washington brought about Democracy in the US, Yes, But he isn't a Liberal Icon. He owned slaves. Slavery isn't Liberal. Bringing about an Ideology Indirectly doesn't make you the Creator of the Ideology. If Mao Zedong, For some reason, Gave democracy to China before his Death, and some Ultraliberal Ideology forms, That doesn't make Mao an Ultraliberal. But, Back to the "Community" thing, If a Community Thinks of George as some sort of Mythical Hero, Seperating the Man from the Myth, That's Alright. They are celebrating the good of the Country without Venerating the bad. If a community sees Washington as a Man, and Acknowledges his Many, Horrible Flaws, But wants to keep statues of him to teach the Next Generation how important Democracy is, that's alright too. If they see him as a Horrible Slaver, and want all statues of him Gone, That's alright too. I see no reason in making every single new Statue removed in every single city in the US a national Headline. It's not a "Where does it end?" Situation, The answer is always Somewhere. It ends Somewhere. It never was a Messenge from God or something saying "ayo votin's dead man sorry", It never will be. There's nothing else to it. It's a local Decision, It actually shows how Communities vote and Voice their opinions, Which is Democracy. I don't mind if they Are removed or not, But I find it good that people are Questioning it in the first place.

[Hukhalia]

Post-communist Poland? Liberal? Seriously? It's a semi-authoritarian regime founded on religious and ethnical identity and hell-bent on persecuting whomever is out of the prescribed norm.

You may not like the current Polish government (and I often preferred the policies of the previous PO government myself) but that is no reason to lie about what it does.

Polish courts are full of crooked PiS judges, the far right is rampant, and anything Solidarność supposedly fought for has been dashed. It's a shithole.

[The Black Forrest]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

Fred Rogers has a statue, though, and he was the exact opposite of a shit heel.

He has a couple. His university recently gave him one.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/30/us/miste ... index.html

And yes he was a great man. The way he demolished a Republican attempt to defund public TV in typical Mr. Rogers fashion.

The sad thing? People are forgetting him. I remember his show……

[The Black Forrest]

Fred Rogers has a statue, though, and he was the exact opposite of a shit heel.

Give it time.

I will take your money and challenge ANYBODY to dig up crap on him.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

And yes he was a great man. The way he demolished a Republican attempt to defund public TV in typical Mr. Rogers fashion.

really want to see mri results for the type of guy who thinks the only thing about mr rogers worth noting is that one time he epicly pwned the repub magats

[Vassenor]

And yes he was a great man. The way he demolished a Republican attempt to defund public TV in typical Mr. Rogers fashion.

really want to see mri results for the type of guy who thinks the only thing about mr rogers worth noting is that one time he epicly pwned the repub magats

Maybe you should go find someone like that then.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

really want to see mri results for the type of guy who thinks the only thing about mr rogers worth noting is that one time he epicly pwned the repub magats

Maybe you should go find someone like that then.

epic trololol comeback compilation 2016 edition

[Kowani]

no no no it is a defense

you're just trying to hide it behind the veil of "neutrality" (a bogus defense in and of itself, he was attacked for this during his life) because you can't really defend it from any other platform

I would be curious to your sources for this: “ he was attacked for this during his life”

His estate, for one
the first time the claim ever appeared was an 1802 article in the Richmond Recorder, from a political enemy of Jefferson’s, James Callender. (Several articles, really, he liked to hammer the point)
Several others would attack him for it later-including John Adams, while even his allies (those who believed the story) would go on to complain about it

[Vassenor]

Maybe you should go find someone like that then.

epic trololol comeback compilation 2016 edition

[Existential Cats]

Pretty much every real person who has a statue is a shit heel though. (Even if you win the rat race you are still a rat). Maybe we just shouldn’t have statues of real people and have ones of the Greek pantheon instead, or alternatively semi-mythical historical figures.

[The North Polish Union]

You may not like the current Polish government (and I often preferred the policies of the previous PO government myself) but that is no reason to lie about what it does.

Polish courts are full of crooked PiS judges, the far right is rampant, and anything Solidarność supposedly fought for has been dashed. It's a shithole.

I agree the judicial situation is not ideal, but you're going to need actual support for those last two claims if you want them taken seriously.

[The Black Forrest]

I would be curious to your sources for this: “ he was attacked for this during his life”

His estate, for one
the first time the claim ever appeared was an 1802 article in the Richmond Recorder, from a political enemy of Jefferson’s, James Callender. (Several articles, really, he liked to hammer the point)
Several others would attack him for it later-including John Adams, while even his allies (those who believed the story) would go on to complain about it

Thank you.

The paper does attempt to prove the paternity of the Hemmings children. This I do not dispute nor never have.

The question is the supposition of rape.

Even in the conclusions you have:

3. Many aspects of this likely relationship between Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson are, and may remain, unclear, such as the nature of the relationship, the existence and longevity of Sally Hemings’s first child, and the identity of Thomas C. Woodson.

There is the comment of Madison Hemmings where he said his mother was “well used”. It was only a one liner and I am assuming he meant they had frequent encounters as proof for the argument of wether or not he had children with her.

Now your comment he was attacked. Yes he was. However, I am not getting the image people being offended he raped his slave. I am reading more of he degraded himself by having relations with a colored woman. The comments of negro wench and he has yellow children.

I have said in the past we don’t know the nature of their relationship. We only have people’s perceptions.

At the very least; I did learn a new word. Calumny.

So thanks again for the paper. May have read it once as it was familiar. May have also read other things and saw the quotes…..