Racing Discussion II. It's light's out and away we go!

[Cannot think of a name]

What it needs is Jacky Stewart back telling us it’s a “great day for motor racing…”

I imagine Hamilton gets the coverage because he’s one of the two drivers who will win the race, what are they gonna do, talk about the also rans just churning laps hoping to get close enough to get their sponsor on tv?

It's not the coverage. It's the sycophantic tone.

Watch a basketball game where LeBron James is playing. If Hamilton wins yet again this year he’ll have won the most drivers championships of any driver. Stars drive a sport. I can’t even name another tennis player other than the Willliams sisters. Don’t know any golfers who aren’t named Tiger. Without Earnharts or Gordons or whatshisnuts, the guy that was kind of a heel NASCAR has struggled. The only time people talk about IRL is when someone fucks up. F1 has a star and they’ll milk that cow as long as it’ll put out.

[Rick Perry]

I feel like team Mercedes is kinda a fake. But I can't tell.

I'll give credit where credit is due... Mercedes has their act together. Can't deny that.

Their undoing is, paradoxically and IMHO, Hamilton's success. Bottas was a great teammate right up until Mercedes made it painfully obvious that he was never going to be allowed to reach his full potential as long as they needed him to help get Hamilton's numbers up. That's when he started phoning it in and I can't blame him. At any other time, Bottas in a Mercedes would be a championship contender in his own right.

Additionally, because Mercedes is the team to beat with what has in recent years been the fastest car, other good teams (not run by Binotto) have been engineering their cars specifically to counter Mercedes. Midfield cars are designed to beat each other. Haas are designed to beat Nissan Altimas. Leading teams' cars are designed to challenge Mercedes.

I do agree that they present a much more solid and cleaned up façade than what's actually beneath the surface, but they must be getting it right more often than they get it wrong.[/quomoreI feel like there need to have restrictions for the cars. We can have more than two OP cars in the field.

[Neo Bretonnia]

I'm not familiar with what you mean regarding Monaco?

During the 2021 Monaco GP the TV director decided to cut away from an ongoing side-by-side battle (itself a rarity at this circuit) between Sebastien Vettel and Pierre Gasly to show a replay of Lance Stroll making a mess of things and bouncing his car over the sausage kerbs by the swimming pool corner several laps ago, meaning the resolution wasn't televised.

Gotcha, thanks. I watched the race but I didn't remember that.

And full disclosure: I also watch IndyCar and I get equally annoyed at the way the announcers kiss Herta's butt in the same way. The kid's got talent, but I can't stand his attitude either.

[Neo Bretonnia]

Watch a basketball game where LeBron James is playing. If Hamilton wins yet again this year he’ll have won the most drivers championships of any driver. Stars drive a sport. I can’t even name another tennis player other than the Willliams sisters. Don’t know any golfers who aren’t named Tiger. Without Earnharts or Gordons or whatshisnuts, the guy that was kind of a heel NASCAR has struggled. The only time people talk about IRL is when someone fucks up. F1 has a star and they’ll milk that cow as long as it’ll put out.

Yeah all true. Still find it annoying.

I feel like there need to have restrictions for the cars. We can have more than two OP cars in the field.

I like that McLaren seems to have found some good pace. I was sure it would be Aston Martin but it's looking like Perez was the source of their speed last year, not the car.

[Rick Perry]

Watch a basketball game where LeBron James is playing. If Hamilton wins yet again this year he’ll have won the most drivers championships of any driver. Stars drive a sport. I can’t even name another tennis player other than the Willliams sisters. Don’t know any golfers who aren’t named Tiger. Without Earnharts or Gordons or whatshisnuts, the guy that was kind of a heel NASCAR has struggled. The only time people talk about IRL is when someone fucks up. F1 has a star and they’ll milk that cow as long as it’ll put out.

Yeah all true. Still find it annoying.

I feel like there need to have restrictions for the cars. We can have more than two OP cars in the field.

I like that McLaren seems to have found some good pace. I was sure it would be Aston Martin but it's looking like Perez was the source of their speed last year, not the car.

True

[Cannot think of a name]

Watch a basketball game where LeBron James is playing. If Hamilton wins yet again this year he’ll have won the most drivers championships of any driver. Stars drive a sport. I can’t even name another tennis player other than the Willliams sisters. Don’t know any golfers who aren’t named Tiger. Without Earnharts or Gordons or whatshisnuts, the guy that was kind of a heel NASCAR has struggled. The only time people talk about IRL is when someone fucks up. F1 has a star and they’ll milk that cow as long as it’ll put out.

Yeah all true. Still find it annoying.

I feel like there need to have restrictions for the cars. We can have more than two OP cars in the field.

I like that McLaren seems to have found some good pace. I was sure it would be Aston Martin but it's looking like Perez was the source of their speed last year, not the car.

I liked it better when Hamilton was with McLaren because I like McLaren if for no other reason than I kinda liked Bruce McLaren and I loved their sports car racers of the late 60s early 70s. And Can Am (though Porsche is my truest love there). I like Lotus so much that I even rooted for pretendy Lotus. I’m sorta neutral on Mercedes, and I like beating Ferrari but only when Ferrari is competitive. If they just suck for a year or two, meh.

I don’t think there’s much value in rooting for teams/manufacturers, but for whatever reason there I am. It’s probably the real reason I rooted for Coulthard over Schummaker. That obviously didn’t go my way as often as against it. I haven’t watched the Schummaker doc on Netflix because I don’t want to find out I was being too hard on him or something. (Not that it matters, he can cry himself to sleep on his seven drivers championships that some American that watches a full season of F1 every couple years if he’s lucky didn’t like him that much).

I’m slamming (kinda) F1 but sports car is all over the place right now. Hypercar seems like LMP with extra steps that are kind of meaningless. They can’t keep a top tier GT series alive and have just given up now and filled the field with GT3 club racing for rich dudes. Instead of a production based hypercar from Porsche they’re teaming with Penske for a Daytona hybrid…I mean, great things happen when Penske and Porsche get together, but…

The drama at Le Mans and related series won’t be at the top category fo a couple years at least, so I have to sit through coverage of another parade waiting for them to go back to the battles in GT. My preferred Motorsport right now is way more of a mess than F1. I’ve actually watched all the IMSA races this year and still couldn’t really tell you much of whats happened except a lot of Acura wins, two Corvettes racing each other, and actually competitive GT categories that don’t really get covered as much. At least I’m likely to get a Porsche win out of that. I don’t see Lamborghini doing well in a enduro…fragile little beasts. Also dunno what happened to Patrick Long, I generally expect him to be at at the top.

[Neo Bretonnia]

I liked it better when Hamilton was with McLaren because I like McLaren if for no other reason than I kinda liked Bruce McLaren and I loved their sports car racers of the late 60s early 70s. And Can Am (though Porsche is my truest love there). I like Lotus so much that I even rooted for pretendy Lotus. I’m sorta neutral on Mercedes, and I like beating Ferrari but only when Ferrari is competitive. If they just suck for a year or two, meh.

I was all about Ferrari a couple years back, especially Vettel, but being a Vettel fan was infuriating because there was no consistency. I'd have probably been happier when he was at Red Bull but that was before I really got into it. His last year with Ferrari really felt like he was phoning it in, but I also think that was largely because Binotto is an embarrassment of a team principal and I'm still baffled that he remains in that position.

I started following Verstappen closely a couple years back and it's nice to feel like I've picked a winner. I kinda miss the more reckless version of him but overall I like the way he's matured. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing him charge another team's paddock to have words with a driver again XD

[Rick Perry]

I liked it better when Hamilton was with McLaren because I like McLaren if for no other reason than I kinda liked Bruce McLaren and I loved their sports car racers of the late 60s early 70s. And Can Am (though Porsche is my truest love there). I like Lotus so much that I even rooted for pretendy Lotus. I’m sorta neutral on Mercedes, and I like beating Ferrari but only when Ferrari is competitive. If they just suck for a year or two, meh.

I was all about Ferrari a couple years back, especially Vettel, but being a Vettel fan was infuriating because there was no consistency. I'd have probably been happier when he was at Red Bull but that was before I really got into it. His last year with Ferrari really felt like he was phoning it in, but I also think that was largely because Binotto is an embarrassment of a team principal and I'm still baffled that he remains in that position.

I started following Verstappen closely a couple years back and it's nice to feel like I've picked a winner. I kinda miss the more reckless version of him but overall I like the way he's matured. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing him charge another team's paddock to have words with a driver again XD

He is one of those drivers that I want to see win a championship in a few years

[Cannot think of a name]

I liked it better when Hamilton was with McLaren because I like McLaren if for no other reason than I kinda liked Bruce McLaren and I loved their sports car racers of the late 60s early 70s. And Can Am (though Porsche is my truest love there). I like Lotus so much that I even rooted for pretendy Lotus. I’m sorta neutral on Mercedes, and I like beating Ferrari but only when Ferrari is competitive. If they just suck for a year or two, meh.

I was all about Ferrari a couple years back, especially Vettel, but being a Vettel fan was infuriating because there was no consistency. I'd have probably been happier when he was at Red Bull but that was before I really got into it. His last year with Ferrari really felt like he was phoning it in, but I also think that was largely because Binotto is an embarrassment of a team principal and I'm still baffled that he remains in that position.

I started following Verstappen closely a couple years back and it's nice to feel like I've picked a winner. I kinda miss the more reckless version of him but overall I like the way he's matured. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing him charge another team's paddock to have words with a driver again XD

Ferrari also felt like Vettel was phoning it in during his last season with them…

[Rick Perry]

I was all about Ferrari a couple years back, especially Vettel, but being a Vettel fan was infuriating because there was no consistency. I'd have probably been happier when he was at Red Bull but that was before I really got into it. His last year with Ferrari really felt like he was phoning it in, but I also think that was largely because Binotto is an embarrassment of a team principal and I'm still baffled that he remains in that position.

I started following Verstappen closely a couple years back and it's nice to feel like I've picked a winner. I kinda miss the more reckless version of him but overall I like the way he's matured. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing him charge another team's paddock to have words with a driver again XD

Ferrari also felt like Vettel was phoning it in during his last season with them…

Agreed

[Neo Bretonnia]

He is one of those drivers that I want to see win a championship in a few years

I'd be quite happy to see him win one now XD

Ferrari also felt like Vettel was phoning it in during his last season with them…

I agree. And honestly, I feel like that was partly because of Binotto's handling of his drivers. Ferrari felt like they had no real strategy or focused vision on how to approach their races. It felt like the approach was "Whoever seems fastest today is the one we'll favor." That may seem like a reasonable approach until you factor in personalities, history and driver temperament.

[Rick Perry]

What's the most overrated racing sport

[Cannot think of a name]

What's the most overrated racing sport

Drag racing or drifting.

[Rick Perry]

What's the most overrated racing sport

Drag racing or drifting.

Yep 100 percent agree with that

[Diarcesia]

What's the most overrated racing sport

Drag racing or drifting.

Those events I think have the lowest barriers of entry though. With the possible exception of the 24 Hours of Lemons

[Rick Perry]

Drag racing or drifting.

Those events I think have the lowest barriers of entry though. With the possible exception of the 24 Hours of Lemons

Oh yeah

[Cannot think of a name]

Drag racing or drifting.

Those events I think have the lowest barriers of entry though. With the possible exception of the 24 Hours of Lemons

In the case of drag racing absolutely. In Sonoma (at least it use to be) every Wednesday they would do a run what you brung bracket race night where I could compete in my VW Bus if I wanted as long as I pegged how long it would take me to get down the quarter mile. Also, up to a certain point the skill and learning curve is pretty low. When the light flashes the foot mashes. Eventually you get into build issues and enough power is put down that the skill needed goes up, but to just go racing drag racing is pretty easy to get into. By design. The whole sport was designed by the NHRA to get kids to stop racing in the streets in order to prevent hot rods from being legislated against.

I'm actually a fan of watching old NHRA movies that were meant more or less to convince kids that organizing racing was preferable to street racing.

As long as you stay in certain level of build, you also get to drive your race car around day to day.

However, if you feel like your steering wheel is as much as the gas pedal, there's also autocross. There's less of maybe the funniest thing I've ever seen at a race-a dude in a stock 1980 station wagon putting his arm across the bench seat and leaning back as he took off during a bracket race, the car has to have at least a nod towards performance to be in a category of one or the other, but it doesn't take much to get your daily to find a class in autocross. And you don't have to be near a track, either. Just a club that will set up in a parking lot somewhere.

The difference being that there is no professional level autocross, but most people showing up at the local dragstrip aren't really thinking that they're on their way to being the next John Force so eh.

I wanted to do a project about grassroots racing opportunities and what they really cost, so off the top of my head I have a lot of cheap(ish) options depending on what you're near and what you're into off the top of my head.

You can start with eSports. If you already have a computer and didn't go all in for the fucking Mac products like me games like iRacing are an almost no impact way to go into racing. Doesn't matter what car you have, or if you have a garage or a truck or trailer or whatever. Also, if you fuck up on race day it cost you a thing. A $150 steering wheel and you're already in. Like all other forms of racing, the more you're willing to spend the more you can do but you can participate with as little as a hand controller.

Karting is the most common gateway to racing. A racing cart can be had for only a couple thousand ready to race, but there has to be a club or track near you and you have to have a garage to store it and a vehicle to get it to the track. If you're not up for that some tracks (again like Sonoma) have some version of arrive and drive that's cheaper than owning a car but the price of a race day goes up. If you just need some speed thrills, indoor karting places like K1 have 'league' racing where $60 gets you a race day once a month and points are accumulated over the year. Or you can just go ruin someone's date on a Monday...(I was on a reality show that was dark Mondays for a while so I was flush and free and bored, so I'd go to the indoor karting track down the street from me and buy a few sessions chasing that free pizza (if you got the best lap time of the week you'd get a free pizza, I was always so close...but sessions were 16 laps, but the first person to reach 16 laps so if some couple on a date were out there messing around I would lap them about every three or four laps meaning that they'd only get 12 or 13 laps per session).

The local dirt track provides a lot of cheap options. There's four bangers, where they hollow out four cylinder cars, install role cages and go for it. Street stock, pro stock, modifieds. mini stock...plus all the NASCAR categories. On my marketplace right now there are oval racers for as low as $1800 for a street stock Camaro or $4500 for a modified. An engineless ministock for $2500. Engines, tires, maintenance can drive you to the poor house though. Plus you need garage space and a tow vehicle.

Like you mentioned, there's junk car racing (LeMons, CHAMP Car, Lucky Dog) where you buy some crapstack car for cheap (like LeMons that penalizes you for buying a car for more than $500) throw a roll cage in it and go racing. It's not as cheap as it implies. Roll cages ain't cheap. You need a suit, helmet. And like the others, you need a tow vehicle and trailer as well as a workshop. The best part about those racing series, though, is the priority of the day is to have a good time and anyone taking things too seriously is kindly invited to fuck right off.

If racing is slightly more 'serious business' for you, club racing via SCCA or NASA (in the US) provide that for whatever you're willing to spend. There are series for your stock Miata all the way up to purpose built prototype racers. I covered the 25 Hours of Thunderhill one year and the mix of cars on the track was huge. There was an old RX3 out there turning laps with a custom built Eagle prototype, several generations of Porsches (that perpetually win that race because Porsches leave the factory as endurance racers) to a Mazda and Audi factory effort. There were a couple of people there with Radical racers with motorcycle engines trying to be the first to win that race with a motorcycle engine. Half way through the night they had to switch engines. Depending on classification you can find a 'run what you brung' race or need a whole rig to race. Run what you brung is more rare than it was in the 60s...mostly because if you bork during the race...that was your ride home. But the Datsun 510, Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV and the like were good for throwing a set of racing tires in the back and racing on the weekend.

I recently came across something fantastic but it takes a modicum of fabrication skills. It's called Cyclekarts, and the idea is from a $2000 base kit you build a small size replica of a pre-war race car or cycle car and race them on makeshift tracks with local clubs. It's another one where fun and creativity trumps speed, but sweet fuck does it look like fun. And imagining what pre-war race car you want to emulate is kind of fun.

It's harder to find venues in the US than it is in Europe, but hillclimb events are like autocross in they can go from your daily to a purpose built machine. I think there are like only two events near me and that might be it for the US.

Open road racing...I don't think that's what its called but I'm not googling right now, but races like the Silver State Classic where they just close 50 miles of road and set you off in intervals to see how fast you can go has categories for your regular ass sports car all the way to big ass builds like that red Camaro I can't remember the name of. Theres one in Mexico, too. They're...a little less than safe though.

Oooo, LeMons Rally, forgot about that. I've done the Hell on Wheels Monterey rally and the Route 666 run of Route 66 from Chicago to LA in my buddies Porsche which is considered cheaty by their standards. The Monterey winner was a dude in a big junky Hudson who scored most of his points by literally in some cases pushing a team sporting a Yugo for the event. Other entries included a rusted CRX with "aperture science" stenciled on the side and a Land Rover decked out like a pirate ship. The Route 66 rally was one by the same guy who had the Hudson, but this time he had a custom built 'wedge' built by fusing two old 60s chassis together into a short wheelbase two seater with a sheetmetal body formed into a wedge. That thing was a heap. There was also a team that decked out an old Subaru like the Ecto 1 and another that had bought a big sixties sedan that three weeks ago was sitting in a field. Another team had dressed up a minivan like a ship from Space Balls. That was some fun shit. Since it's a road rally on public unclosed roads, speed isn't the point. Getting your trash heap to the end is. (that's why the Porsche is considered cheaty, it was a Porsche and not in terrible shape...not great, just not terrible. He has a 914 that's gone to seed a bit that would be better...or my Bus, really. There's always someone in a Bus.) That's like $500 to enter then you got motel rooms etc and whatever you want to spend on your heap. Like regular LeMons the prize is a piece of junk trophy.

Off-road has some cheap options like Class 11 which is literally a stock Beetle with reinforced suspension. Some of the lower classes have not too expensive race cars.

Land speed is antoher what you're willing to spend type racing. Just take whatever out there and see how fast it goes. Mostly that's the west though with the dry lake beds and salt flats. Also limited events.

SCCA rally has some options including (at least it use to) a class for $4000 cars competing in rallycross events, basically stageless rally racing on a circuit. Autocross on dirt.

Basically, if you have $5-10,000, some garage space and a truck there are a lot of options out there to get your race on, but that in a lot of cases hides other costs like fuel, tires, spares, engines, safety gear, entry fees. Having said all of that, the best I can manage with my broke ass is Gran Turismo and even then, I don't have a good mount for my steering wheel so I haven't raced in a minute.

I think I forgot a few but I also realize I've just wrote a fucking novella that no one asked for.

Re: Motorsports with a low barrier of entry that I overwrote about, so spoilered.

[Costa Fierro]

Supercars have finally started back up again and Shane van Gisbergen is currently in the lead in terms of points. He's been in the game for over a decade but can't stand him. Can't stand his teammate either. GOAT but ran out of fuel and lost Bathurst in 2014 because he knew better.

Shame Scotty Mac's doing Indycar because DJR really need him this year. Can't help but think Rodger Penske pulled a fast one when they pulled out from the joint venture after he signed up McLaughlin to race for him in Indycar.

[Cannot think of a name]

Supercars have finally started back up again and Shane van Gisbergen is currently in the lead in terms of points. He's been in the game for over a decade but can't stand him. Can't stand his teammate either. GOAT but ran out of fuel and lost Bathurst in 2014 because he knew better.

Shame Scotty Mac's doing Indycar because DJR really need him this year. Can't help but think Rodger Penske pulled a fast one when they pulled out from the joint venture after he signed up McLaughlin to race for him in Indycar.

Ah I gotta start checking Motor Trend again in the middle of the night. Or learn the schedule. Or just google it.

But then I've looked up the date for Petit Le Mans about once every four days.

[Rick Perry]

Now what's the most underrated racing sport

[Cannot think of a name]

Now what's the most underrated racing sport

My inclination is to say sports car racing just because it's so frustrating to even find a racing fan, but then to find a fan of sports car racing but maybe, ultimately, it's as popular as it should be.

I'll do a wild take, actually. I'm not the biggest fan of NASCAR and after my only connection to the sport retired I fell off hard, but saying as a non-fan it gets way, way more grief than it deserves. Weird decisions regarding the points structure aside, and complaints regarding silhouette race cars instead of production based race cars where we're watching a 4/5ths spec series, really and of course the reliance on ovals and superspeedways...NASCAR better than most motorsports manages parity relatively well. It is not uncommon to have a NASCAR race come down to the last lap with several cars contending for the win. The action is close and easy to follow. It's not my thing but if I'm going to watch something that's going to be competitive NASCAR delivers better than most.

I prefer almost every other form of professional motor sport, but NASCAR doesn't really deserve the ration of shit it gets from hacks thinking that making 'left turn' jokes are still clever.

[Costa Fierro]

Supercars have finally started back up again and Shane van Gisbergen is currently in the lead in terms of points. He's been in the game for over a decade but can't stand him. Can't stand his teammate either. GOAT but ran out of fuel and lost Bathurst in 2014 because he knew better.

Shame Scotty Mac's doing Indycar because DJR really need him this year. Can't help but think Rodger Penske pulled a fast one when they pulled out from the joint venture after he signed up McLaughlin to race for him in Indycar.

Ah I gotta start checking Motor Trend again in the middle of the night. Or learn the schedule. Or just google it.

But then I've looked up the date for Petit Le Mans about once every four days.

Their Youtube channel has racing highlights of the current season's races plus archive footage from past championships as well, going back to about ~1997.

[USS Monitor]

Now what's the most underrated racing sport

My inclination is to say sports car racing just because it's so frustrating to even find a racing fan, but then to find a fan of sports car racing but maybe, ultimately, it's as popular as it should be.

I'll do a wild take, actually. I'm not the biggest fan of NASCAR and after my only connection to the sport retired I fell off hard, but saying as a non-fan it gets way, way more grief than it deserves. Weird decisions regarding the points structure aside, and complaints regarding silhouette race cars instead of production based race cars where we're watching a 4/5ths spec series, really and of course the reliance on ovals and superspeedways...NASCAR better than most motorsports manages parity relatively well. It is not uncommon to have a NASCAR race come down to the last lap with several cars contending for the win. The action is close and easy to follow. It's not my thing but if I'm going to watch something that's going to be competitive NASCAR delivers better than most.

I prefer almost every other form of professional motor sport, but NASCAR doesn't really deserve the ration of shit it gets from hacks thinking that making 'left turn' jokes are still clever.

I wouldn't call NASCAR "underrated" because it has a large following, but it does get more shit than it deserves. The way NASCAR and its fans get stereotyped as braindead rednecks is unfair. It's not like NASCAR is the only sport that ever attracts stupid douchey fans, but for some reason it gets stereotyped a lot worse.

[Cannot think of a name]

My inclination is to say sports car racing just because it's so frustrating to even find a racing fan, but then to find a fan of sports car racing but maybe, ultimately, it's as popular as it should be.

I'll do a wild take, actually. I'm not the biggest fan of NASCAR and after my only connection to the sport retired I fell off hard, but saying as a non-fan it gets way, way more grief than it deserves. Weird decisions regarding the points structure aside, and complaints regarding silhouette race cars instead of production based race cars where we're watching a 4/5ths spec series, really and of course the reliance on ovals and superspeedways...NASCAR better than most motorsports manages parity relatively well. It is not uncommon to have a NASCAR race come down to the last lap with several cars contending for the win. The action is close and easy to follow. It's not my thing but if I'm going to watch something that's going to be competitive NASCAR delivers better than most.

I prefer almost every other form of professional motor sport, but NASCAR doesn't really deserve the ration of shit it gets from hacks thinking that making 'left turn' jokes are still clever.

I wouldn't call NASCAR "underrated" because it has a large following, but it does get more shit than it deserves. The way NASCAR and its fans get stereotyped as braindead rednecks is unfair. It's not like NASCAR is the only sport that ever attracts stupid douchey fans, but for some reason it gets stereotyped a lot worse.

I was genuinely surprised that when South Park did a take on NASCAR it made fun of people who reduce it down to dumb rednecks.

[Rick Perry]

Well that race yesterday was fun
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