Racing Discussion II. It's light's out and away we go!

[Rick Perry]

Maybe eventually HASS will win a wold championship...

[Rick Perry]

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nascar/chase-elliott-keeping-things-in-perspective-having-a-little-more-fun-along-the-way
Shout out to Bob

[The Two Jerseys]

Well actually maybe- no nope Lewis definitely had that one we all knew it

Which is why ramming someone trying to get out of your way is a penalty for the driver you rammed.

Max was told to give Lewis the position because he gained time by missing the one corner. Okay, fair enough.

Mercedes doesn't tell this to Lewis, and Lewis rear-ends Max when he slows down; Max is told again to give Lewis the position because Lewis not getting the message is somehow his fault.

Max lets Lewis go by, then passes Lewis right back by using DRS to dive into the turn; Max is told to let Lewis go by again, because how dare he use the DRS rules to his advantage.

Oh, and Max gets a 5 second time penalty for...reasons.

Absolute fucking joke.

[Rick Perry]

Which is why ramming someone trying to get out of your way is a penalty for the driver you rammed.

Max was told to give Lewis the position because he gained time by missing the one corner. Okay, fair enough.

Mercedes doesn't tell this to Lewis, and Lewis rear-ends Max when he slows down; Max is told again to give Lewis the position because Lewis not getting the message is somehow his fault.

Max lets Lewis go by, then passes Lewis right back by using DRS to dive into the turn; Max is told to let Lewis go by again, because how dare he use the DRS rules to his advantage.

Oh, and Max gets a 5 second time penalty for...reasons.

Absolute fucking joke.

Did the FIA know anything about this? This is bullshit

[The Two Jerseys]

Max was told to give Lewis the position because he gained time by missing the one corner. Okay, fair enough.

Mercedes doesn't tell this to Lewis, and Lewis rear-ends Max when he slows down; Max is told again to give Lewis the position because Lewis not getting the message is somehow his fault.

Max lets Lewis go by, then passes Lewis right back by using DRS to dive into the turn; Max is told to let Lewis go by again, because how dare he use the DRS rules to his advantage.

Oh, and Max gets a 5 second time penalty for...reasons.

Absolute fucking joke.

Did the FIA know anything about this? This is bullshit

They're the ones handing out these Mickey Mouse penalties.

[Rick Perry]

Did the FIA know anything about this? This is bullshit

They're the ones handing out these Mickey Mouse penalties.

Well. I say we look forward to Lewis not winning a championship next year.
And speaking of not Lewis. I heard that Rick Wear racing will be more competitive this next season. I don't know what they mean by more "competitive" but I look forward to seeing it

[Rick Perry]

Well the 24 hours of Daytona is coming up fast.
I personally think that the Mazda's or team Pensky will win

[Rick Perry]

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/nbc-and-paul-tracy-go-their-separate-ways/6864681/
Well...PT will be missed

[Cannot think of a name]

Well the 24 hours of Daytona is coming up fast.
I personally think that the Mazda's or team Pensky will win

Mazda isn't in it so far, Acura did well last year and if you had asked me before I checked I would have said they won the manufacture's championship, but apparently that was Cadillac. I'm pretty sure Penske is going to just develop for 2023 when Le Mans Hypercar and LMDPh replace DPi and they field the Porsche. 2022 is just going to be a farewell tour for DPi like it was for GTLM this year.

We'll have to see if an all pro GTD class works out. At the very least I won't have to listen to the announcers working out if the silver or bronze driver has done enough time in the car etc. At least not for GTD Pro.

Variety will be nice. So far it's got Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and a Lexus for some reason. I'm sure by race day there'll be some AMG GTs as well.

Oh, my bad, Penske will run an Oreca LMP2. The last time I paid attention to LMP2...Penske ran a Porsche in it. But they are doing it to develop the Porsche hybrid they'll be running in the big show next year because that will be built on an Oreca as well.

[The Two Jerseys]

RIP Big Al.

[Rick Perry]

RIP Big Al.

Everybody seems to be dying this week

[The Two Jerseys]

MAX!

[Vassenor]

MAX!

At least until Merc finds a way to rules lawyer their way out of this. Like I've already seen people pouring over the sporting regs to prove the safety car procedure was conducted incorrectly as though that makes Lewis win by default.

[The Alma Mater]

MAX!

At least until Merc finds a way to rules lawyer their way out of this. Like I've already seen people pouring over the sporting regs to prove the safety car procedure was conducted incorrectly as though that makes Lewis win by default.

Are we seriously going to see Trumpian tactics in carracing ?

[Vassenor]

At least until Merc finds a way to rules lawyer their way out of this. Like I've already seen people pouring over the sporting regs to prove the safety car procedure was conducted incorrectly as though that makes Lewis win by default.

Are we seriously going to see Trumpian tactics in carracing ?

Yes. Merc have filed protests and Max has been summoned to the Stewards.

[The Two Jerseys]

MAX!

At least until Merc finds a way to rules lawyer their way out of this. Like I've already seen people pouring over the sporting regs to prove the safety car procedure was conducted incorrectly as though that makes Lewis win by default.

Yeah, I really don't know what they expect to gain by that, you can't go back and change the results of a sporting event after the fact just because the officials made a bad call.

[Vassenor]

At least until Merc finds a way to rules lawyer their way out of this. Like I've already seen people pouring over the sporting regs to prove the safety car procedure was conducted incorrectly as though that makes Lewis win by default.

Yeah, I really don't know what they expect to gain by that, you can't go back and change the results of a sporting event after the fact just because the officials made a bad call.

Still nice to see that "we're not protesting because we want to settle this on track" was a massive lie.

[Vassenor]

So according to Sky Merc are bringing in the lawyers.

[Vassenor]

Merc protest 1 (Max overtook Lewis behind safety car) dismissed.

[Rick Perry]

and I thought that NASCAR officiating was bad

[The Two Jerseys]

Merc protest 1 (Max overtook Lewis behind safety car) dismissed.

Why, just because Stevie Wonder could see that Max was behind Lewis at the restart?

and I thought that NASCAR officiating was bad

At least in this situation NASCAR would be consistent: throw a red flag/guarantee a green-white-checker finish, and get the lapped cars out of the way for the restart.

Plus, you know, there's the whole thing where if Max ran Lewis off the road they'd just shrug their shoulders and go "Well, that's racin' for ya!'...

[Dumb Ideologies]

Mercedes have lodged their intention to appeal. It's been a thing for years now that when there's an opportunity to do so the FIA like to do all they can to have a "shootout" after a safety car rather than finish under it, and I'm sure the FIA will argue that not all the cars being released and given a lap to catch up to the back of the train is one of the many things within the race director's discretion and that they have the right to pursue the sporting imperative of following that precedent to do all they can safely to ensure that a race ends as a race. Quite a lot of the rulebook is selectively applied and it's always had a lot of interpretation involved.

The stewards ruled that article 48.13 gives the race director the power to control the safety car, which "includes its deployment and withdrawal", and so "Although article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, article 48.13 overrides that and once the message 'safety car in this lap' has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap."

The challenge will be first proving that the above ruling is not a reasonable reading of the rules, and then making the surely much bigger leap to "and because that decision was wrong we go back a lap" (the only scenario I can recall there being countback is a red flag, and I'm not sure what precedent you'd have for lopping laps off the classification to compensate for a decision). You don't generally change the result of a sports event if the referee has made a dodgy call. Perhaps in the event of corrupt officials, but aside from twitter tinfoiloids I don't think anybody is alleging that. You can't "replay" a race weekend, and even somehow nullifying the race results of the weekend would not change the result. Mercedes must presumably have a good argument somewhere I'm not thinking of, as if they put a laughable case that's dismissed out of hand there's reputational damage of being "bad losers" and going back on the previous heavy emphasis they've previously put on "doing it on the track" as opposed to trying to get results changed behind close doors.

[Vassenor]

Mercedes have lodged their intention to appeal. It's been a thing for years now that when there's an opportunity to do so the FIA like to do all they can to have a "shootout" after a safety car rather than finish under it, and I'm sure the FIA will argue that not all the cars being released and given a lap to catch up to the back of the train is one of the many things within the race director's discretion and that they have the right to pursue the sporting imperative of following that precedent to do all they can safely to ensure that a race ends as a race. Quite a lot of the rulebook is selectively applied and it's always had a lot of interpretation involved.

The stewards ruled that article 48.13 gives the race director the power to control the safety car, which "includes its deployment and withdrawal", and so "Although article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, article 48.13 overrides that and once the message 'safety car in this lap' has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap."

The challenge will be first proving that the above ruling is not a reasonable reading of the rules, and then making the surely much bigger leap to "and because that decision was wrong we go back a lap" (the only scenario I can recall there being countback is a red flag, and I'm not sure what precedent you'd have for lopping laps off the classification to compensate for a decision). You don't generally change the result of a sports event if the referee has made a dodgy call. Perhaps in the event of corrupt officials, but aside from twitter tinfoiloids I don't think anybody is alleging that. You can't "replay" a race weekend, and even somehow nullifying the race results of the weekend would not change the result. Mercedes must presumably have a good argument somewhere I'm not thinking of, as if they put a laughable case that's dismissed out of hand there's reputational damage of being "bad losers" and going back on the previous heavy emphasis they've previously put on "doing it on the track" as opposed to trying to get results changed behind close doors.

Yeah, if this GP is voided then Max still gets the title by virtue of more races won over the season as the tiebreaker.

[The Two Jerseys]

Mercedes have lodged their intention to appeal. It's been a thing for years now that when there's an opportunity to do so the FIA like to do all they can to have a "shootout" after a safety car rather than finish under it, and I'm sure the FIA will argue that not all the cars being released and given a lap to catch up to the back of the train is one of the many things within the race director's discretion and that they have the right to pursue the sporting imperative of following that precedent to do all they can safely to ensure that a race ends as a race. Quite a lot of the rulebook is selectively applied and it's always had a lot of interpretation involved.

The stewards ruled that article 48.13 gives the race director the power to control the safety car, which "includes its deployment and withdrawal", and so "Although article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, article 48.13 overrides that and once the message 'safety car in this lap' has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap."

The challenge will be first proving that the above ruling is not a reasonable reading of the rules, and then making the surely much bigger leap to "and because that decision was wrong we go back a lap" (the only scenario I can recall there being countback is a red flag, and I'm not sure what precedent you'd have for lopping laps off the classification to compensate for a decision). You don't generally change the result of a sports event if the referee has made a dodgy call. Perhaps in the event of corrupt officials, but aside from twitter tinfoiloids I don't think anybody is alleging that. You can't "replay" a race weekend, and even somehow nullifying the race results of the weekend would not change the result. Mercedes must presumably have a good argument somewhere I'm not thinking of, as if they put a laughable case that's dismissed out of hand there's reputational damage of being "bad losers" and going back on the previous heavy emphasis they've previously put on "doing it on the track" as opposed to trying to get results changed behind close doors.

Yeah, if this GP is voided then Max still gets the title by virtue of more races won over the season as the tiebreaker.

But Vass, everyone in Stuttgart knows that the proper way to rectify the officials not properly following the rules is to ignore the rest of the rules and just give the win to Hamilton!

[Philjia]

Hello can I interest you in our lord and saviour touring cars?