Re: Claim on Columbus

[Heloin]

When it comes to Columbus, some sources say Columbus was actually Catalan. He said he was from what is today Italy since he had been a Catalan pirate. If the Castilian/Aragon royals had found out that he had been a pirate chances are he would not have survived. So he said he was from Italy. This also explains why he tended to write Spanish or Catalan. Also, they say he named some places in the Catalan language.

This is not widely held by mainstream scholars on the matter. By widely I mean near totally. That includes theories that he is from Portugal or Castile. He wrote in Spanish, Portuguese, and Catalan probably because those where the people who hired him more often then not.

[Dakini]

I'm beginning to suspect that IM slept through history classes and picked up his historical knowledge from American cartoons.

Video games and TV shows/films, mostly.

Definitely not from books or history class (especially Canadian history classes).

[Luziyca]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

[Infected Mushroom]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

[Kannap]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

If that's true imma need a time machine... for science.

[Luziyca]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

Maybe a timeline where the USA never existed would mean I won't be so much of a supporter of the People's Republic of China's foreign policy and the Canadian monarchy because I won't have to feel like Canada's destiny is to stand up against the USA, but instead, develop into the best country it could be.

[Umbratellus]

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

Maybe a timeline where the USA never existed would mean I won't be so much of a supporter of the People's Republic of China's foreign policy and the Canadian monarchy because I won't have to feel like Canada's destiny is to stand up against the USA, but instead, develop into the best country it could be.

What would make you assume that Canada would be a thing in a "timeline" without the USA?

[Vikanias]

Where’s the Vikings in all of this. I will not let the man who discovered my home of Newfoundland be forgotten. So I vote on Leif Erikson.

[Heloin]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

Without the Atlantic slave trade nearly all peoples' in the Americas of African descent wouldn't exist.

[Neanderthaland]

citing that Columbus was born in Genoa

Interestingly this "fact" was 100% made-up by Washington Irving. Of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow fame. He also wrote a biography about Columbus. Which included tons of made-up facts like this.

We have no idea where Columbus was born. Although it is an Italian name.

[Neanderthaland]

You and I had very different experiences with education in Canada.

We spent a tiny amount of time on Columbus, especially compared to all the time we spent learning about Leif Eriksson, Jacques Cartier and the exploration of the Arctic.

The Viking settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland, was recently dated to exactly 1021 CE. They're able to narrow it down so precisely because they know there was a solar storm in 992, and the radiation from that is detectable in the wood, and from there it's good old fashioned counting tree rings. Who cares about Columbus when there's cool shit like this?

Also - and I don't know why more people don't seem to realize this - Greenland is part of the American continent.

Like, it's an island. But so is what Columbus discovered.

[Luziyca]

The Viking settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland, was recently dated to exactly 1021 CE. They're able to narrow it down so precisely because they know there was a solar storm in 992, and the radiation from that is detectable in the wood, and from there it's good old fashioned counting tree rings. Who cares about Columbus when there's cool shit like this?

Also - and I don't know why more people don't seem to realize this - Greenland is part of the American continent.

Like, it's an island. But so is what Columbus discovered.

I think the reason why Greenland is not considered part of the Americas is it is still part of the Danish realm and is not a fully independent country. If Greenland ever gains full independence, it would probably be rightfully considered part of North America.

[Neanderthaland]

Also - and I don't know why more people don't seem to realize this - Greenland is part of the American continent.

Like, it's an island. But so is what Columbus discovered.

I think the reason why Greenland is not considered part of the Americas is it is still part of the Danish realm and is not a fully independent country. If Greenland ever gains full independence, it would probably be rightfully considered part of North America.

But it is considered part of North America. Google "map of North America." Most of them include Greenland.

[Ifreann]

If I had to claim Columbus for Italy or for Spain, I'd kill myself at the gate of the airport, because he's a monster even in his own time.

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

Columbus had nothing to do with the founding of the USA.

[Black Raven Movement]

I understand this hypothetical about as much as I understand calculus. This legitimately doesn't make the slightest of sense, especially as to why the Spanish and Italian governments would supposedly take claim to Columbus. If the entire goddamn European continent went under the financial shitter, then why are some of their richer states more concerned with claiming Columbus than with fixing their economy? Why focus on a man who only at best popularized the new world towards European trade(granted, the Vikings arrived to North America, and I think a map of North America was made before he had arrived, though I'm not sure) because traditional trade routes to the Asian continent were now in Ottoman possession, when there are much larger things to worry about.

This is making my brain have a mini-stroke.

[Ethel mermania]

No Hasselhoff option.

[Black Raven Movement]

No Hasselhoff option.

Shame.

[Karolengia]

I'm sorry I don't understand what the point of the hypothetical supernatural bank is...? Why not just write about the debate as to whether Galileo should be considered Spanish or Italian?

My position: he was Italian by birth (if we apply modern nationalities to him) but served the Spanish crown. Thus, the "credit" for Columbus' work, if attributed to a single country, should go to Spain.

[Karolengia]

citing that Columbus was born in Genoa

Interestingly this "fact" was 100% made-up by Washington Irving. Of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow fame. He also wrote a biography about Columbus. Which included tons of made-up facts like this.

We have no idea where Columbus was born. Although it is an Italian name.

This "fact" is the consensus among historians and Columbus' contemporary Bartolemé (1561), who knew him personally, described him as Genoese. This is attested to by Piri Reis in 1513. Centuries before Washington Irving was even born.

[Infected Mushroom]

No Hasselhoff option.

I don't really understand the meme, so I don't use it.

[Picairn]

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

Doubtful. History is not the product of Great Men, without Columbus another person would have filled in the spot and accordingly credited just the same.

Maybe it would have been Ferdinand Magellan instead, and we would have the continent of Magelia.

[Risottia]

Italy has made a claim, citing that Columbus was born in Genoa and seems to be ethnically Italian. Genoa is part of present day Italy.

Genoa was part of the Kingdom of Italy (a constituent kingdom of the Holy Roman Empire) when Colombo was born.

I think that Spain should get the claim. The analogy would be that Napoleon is considered French even though he was technically born in Italian Corsica.

Napoleon Bonaparte is considered French because he was born in Corsica after Corsica was ceded by Genoa to France.

[Ifreann]

I mean without him, you might not have had the United States of America.

Doubtful. History is not the product of Great Men, without Columbus another person would have filled in the spot and accordingly credited just the same.

Maybe it would have been Ferdinand Magellan instead, and we would have the continent of Magelia.

The Americas are pretty big, you don't need to be some kind of navigational genius to find them from Europe.

[Kannap]

Doubtful. History is not the product of Great Men, without Columbus another person would have filled in the spot and accordingly credited just the same.

Maybe it would have been Ferdinand Magellan instead, and we would have the continent of Magelia.

The Americas are pretty big, you don't need to be some kind of navigational genius to find them from Europe.

Basically sail west, it'd be incredibly impressive if you missed them.

[The Archregimancy]

The Viking settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland, was recently dated to exactly 1021 CE. They're able to narrow it down so precisely because they know there was a solar storm in 992, and the radiation from that is detectable in the wood, and from there it's good old fashioned counting tree rings. Who cares about Columbus when there's cool shit like this?

Also - and I don't know why more people don't seem to realize this - Greenland is part of the American continent.

Like, it's an island. But so is what Columbus discovered.

With the important qualifiers that A) Columbus was the first known European to have landed on the mainland of South America - on the Paria Peninsula in what's now northeastern Venezuela in 1498 during his third voyage, though B) John Cabot seems to have been the first post-Norse European to have reached the North American mainland (somewhere in eastern Canada) in 1497, and C) Norse explorers almost certainly did likewise, since it would be a bit difficult to avoid what's now Labrador if you were setting up a settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows, and the relevant sagas note the existence of a 'Markland' between 'Helluland' (most likely Baffin Island, where there's some good archaeological evidence of more transient Norse activity) and 'Vinland' (most likely Newfoundland).

So Columbus can reasonably take credit for discovering South America; Cabot and earlier Norse explorers should take the credit for North America

As to the archaeological evidence for Norse settlement of the Americas, and the recent Nature article dating L’Anse aux Meadows... I know I'm biased, but archaeology rocks.