Cyprus, the other one-state and two-state solution dilemma.

[Kaczynskisatva]

I mean, a foreign country is occupying a portion of the island, has established what is de facto a puppet state (that, of course, only said country recognizes as illegitimate) and actively expelled the place's indigenous population and had a class of settlers take over their homes (literally, in some cases). The Status Quo legitimizes Turkey's position in that it will be allowed to get away with acts of colonialism and ethnic displacement, recognizing Northern Cyprus is similarly out of question because it is literally an illegal settler state.

Isn't this how every country gets started?

Just how far back are we willing to go, to disrupt status-quo borders in favor of "X people have a historical claim on Y land"? 20 years? 200 years? 2000? With this sort of reasoning, we could conquer the Philistines to reclaim rightful Hebrew clay - look how much peace and stability that idea has brought to the region.

The decision to "allow Turkey to get away with acts of colonialism and ethnic displacement" was made 25 years ago. If you can find me a time machine going back 25 years, we can jump in it, and debate with the previous generation about whether or not they should try to prevent the Turks from doing this.

Otherwise, proposing that we retake Cyprus from the Turks, is about as practical as proposing that we should retake Constantinople from them.

The people whose decisions created these conditions are dead or in retirement homes, and now the active, living participants in the world must decide how to resolve them. If this generation of Turks were to attempt another act of "colonialism and ethnic displacement," that is something that we, the living, would have to deal with now.

The past, on the other hand, is already gone. The clear solution to the needs of the Cypriots is to whack the pinyata of German pity-money, or to entrap them with toxic German debt and then offer them mercy if they forget about their clay. This is the way in which actual Greece-Turkey conflicts are managed, here in real life.

[Redeemed Britannia]

Isn't this how every country gets started?

Just how far back are we willing to go, to disrupt status-quo borders in favor of "X people have a historical claim on Y land"? 20 years? 200 years? 2000? With this sort of reasoning, we could conquer the Philistines to reclaim rightful Hebrew clay - look how much peace and stability that idea has brought to the region.

The decision to "allow Turkey to get away with acts of colonialism and ethnic displacement" was made 25 years ago. If you can find me a time machine going back 25 years, we can jump in it, and debate with the previous generation about whether or not they should try to prevent the Turks from doing this.

Otherwise, proposing that we retake Cyprus from the Turks, is about as practical as proposing that we should retake Constantinople from them.

The people whose decisions created these conditions are dead or in retirement homes, and now the active, living participants in the world must decide how to resolve them. If this generation of Turks were to attempt another act of "colonialism and ethnic displacement," that is something that we, the living, would have to deal with now.

The past, on the other hand, is already gone. The clear solution to the needs of the Cypriots is to whack the pinyata of German pity-money, or to entrap them with toxic German debt and then offer them mercy if they forget about their clay. This is the way in which actual Greece-Turkey conflicts are managed, here in real life.

No, it's not how "every country" gets started. In fact, Northern Cyprus is probably the only state in modern history that's actively propped up and being maintained by a foreign country not as an extension of that country (i.e. Judea-Samaria/West Bank in the Middle East) but an actual settler colony propped up as an unrecognized state. And yes. Frankly whether the displaced return is a different matter than the fact Turkish settlers at the very least should be expelled back to the mainland after paying a hefty reparations before any sort of negotiations over the future of Cyprus can begin. That people let it happen 40 years ago, or 25 years ago, or 5 months ago, doesn't mean the past gets to stay in the past. If there's meant to be a statute of limitations for a literal crime against humanity, you'd expect it to be "at least one generation after the direct victims".

[Kaczynskisatva]

the fact Turkish settlers at the very least should be expelled back to the mainland after paying a hefty reparations

Well, the notion that living displaced Greek Cypriots deserve compensation is admitted - though it is not clear to me that the Greek State has not already received this compensation in the form of helicopter money from the EU, which serves as the legal/financial appendage of the NATO apparatus which has already consciously decided to sacrifice the Greek interest in Cyprus. If the Greek State has not, in turn, used this money to compensate these displaced Greek Cypriots, that is an internal issue with the Greeks, and has nothing to do with Turkey.

So, your idea here is that a bunch of Turks aged 0-40, living in Cyprus, who were either born there or who were legal minors when they were brought there, should be removed from where they have been living for the last 25 years / all of their lives, and shipped back to Turkey.

May I ask, why?

I can see that there are some troubling oversights with the operation of the word why underlying the premise of this thread, so let me clarify its function in this context - what would that accomplish, and for who? Obviously, this would incur some additional cost of disrupting the lives of a bunch of Turkish under-40s who did not decide for things to be this way, but simply inherited the situation. Why would a solution that involves incurring this cost be more efficient than simple, direct compensation?

[Kaczynskisatva]

Northern Cyprus is probably the only state in modern history that's actively propped up and being maintained by a foreign country not as an extension of that country (i.e. Judea-Samaria/West Bank in the Middle East) but an actual settler colony propped up as an unrecognized state.

Well, if we take away the "unrecognized state" clause, we could immediately point to Israel, which is also a settler colony being actively propped up and maintained by a foreign power bloc, not as an extension of any country participant in it. The fact that it is "recognized" is simply a function of the diplomatic influence of those propping it up, as compared to the influence of Turkey. This is not, in any case, a practical justification for returning Judea to the Palestines, and dealing with the practical problems of displacing populations, again.

I could also point out to the rebellious provincial government occupying the island of Formosa, also referred to as Taiwan, which is a settler colony in the sense that the island was a Japanese holding until they lost it at the end of the second World War, at which point it was settled by Hans, displacing the indigenous population, and it is now being actively propped up and maintained by the United States, as an unrecognized state. This is also not a practical justification for the invasion of Taiwan, especially since the "wait for American resolve to falter" strategy of China (to whom the territory pertains, according to all international recognition) appears to be working.

Still, the fact that your allegation about the state of foreign-backed, internationally unrecognized settler colonies is factually incorrect here, is actually a secondary matter. What is of primary concern, is what you think this is supposed to accomplish, and for whom, compared to the cost-benefit profile of simple compensation, which appears to have already been given to Greece as a country, and only possibly not distributed by them to the displaced Cypriots, making this an internal issue of Greece.

Perhaps, a question that would elucidate your own position is this: Why do you think this is the status quo? Generally, things are done for reasons - even in politics.

[Soviet Socialist Kazakhstan]

Just formally partition the place between Greece and Turkey and get it over with. People, there's no undoing any "colonization" stuff by now.

[Derhem Sultenet]

Enough of this bickering, just return Cyprus to Aphrodite

EDIT: After having just read 11 articles and policy papers, as well as the bulk of the Annan Plan because I'm a geopolitics nerd with nothing else to do, it looks like there are too many stumbling blocks for any feasible reunification, and that there is already a de facto "two state" situation going on. Yes, I realize that the TRNC is a proxy of Turkey, and that it is not legitimate based on the fact it was established partially through the military invasion of Turkey and is being populated with Turkish settlers. But the harsh fact of the matter is that the TRNC is under sanctions and an embargo, has its own government and system of governance, and is even exempted from EU benefits and EU law.

There basically already is a two state "solution" on the ground right now, and Erdogan and the Turks ABSOLUTELY will not budge on reunification with the Republic of Cyprus at this point. Basically, in an ideal world I would support a modified Annan Plan, but as for right now, it looks like a two-state settlement is the only thing realistically viable, unless there is to be an invasion of the TRNC. It's occupied by 40,000 Turkish troops, though, and I think anyone with basic sanity realizes it would be a bloodbath and make the situation 100x worse.

If anyone is as bored as I am, here are the things I read:

http://www.hscentre.org/uncategorized/a ... s-dispute/

https://www.lepetitjuriste.fr/the-unres ... s-problem/

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/26/can ... s-conflict

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2021/05/11/c ... reunified/

https://www.crisisgroup.org/europe-cent ... iterranean

https://oneearthfuture.org/opinion-insi ... -partition

https://theconversation.com/q-a-the-cyp ... alks-71035

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-thing ... rus-talks/

https://theowp.org/recent-peace-talks-f ... -conflict/

http://cgsrs.org/publications/89

https://www.dw.com/en/cyprus-un-mediate ... a-57379418

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Members of the Turkish Enemy Yerevan lobby are at work again. Those who bring Erdogan and the Turkish Nation side by side are experiencing a different dimension of racism.These racists, who do not learn from history, will disappear in the bright light of social democratic Kemalism supported by the European Union. We have been here for 102 years and we will continue to be here. We do not accept the Middle East, fed by political Islam. always the same tale, political Islam is the pawn of the Turkish enemies. The blood of the Turkish people is not your source of money. Long live Kemalism, long live united Cyprus !

[Radiatia]

The Turkish Republic of North Cyprus is an ethnostate and puppet of the Republic of Turkey. It is but one of many examples of Turkish Imperialism against it's neighbors. While the intervention in Cyprus in 1974 was totally justified Turkey exploited the opportunity to engage in shameless ethnic nationalism and colonialism by propping up an illegal state on the occupied soil of a sovereign nation and importing mainland Turks while evicting ethnic Greeks from their homes.

The TRNC should be abolished, by force if necessary, and the island united once more under the lawful government of the Republic of Cyprus.

This.

Unlike Israel and Palestine, where I can see a lot of grey area, this one is pretty cut and dry.

[Liburia]

As a Cypriot I will say a few things.
First of all Cyprus is de facto partitioned but is de jure one state.
Secondly, decades ago it was agreed by Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot political elites that the solution of the problem will be a federal state, made up of two autonomous states, each one ruled by a different community.
Also, neither the Greek-Cypriots want to be part of Greece neither the Turkish-Cypriots want to be part of Turkey.
While the Turkish-Cypriots consider partition plan B, for Greek-Cypriots it is unacceptable. Most of the land in the occupied part of Cyprus was inhabited by Greek-Cypriots and it still is property of displaced Greek-Cypriots.
In the latest negotiations, which eventually failed, it was agreed that Turkish settlers would remain and most of them would be citizens of united Cyprus.
The hardest element to be solved is if and when all Turkish soldiers will leave from Cyprus.
My opinion is that at the moment a solution is not possible. We will have to wait for 2025 to see if both Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot leaders support a federal solution so that new negotiations will take place. In any case, as time goes by, the Cyprus problem becomes even more complex and harder to solve it. There is a chance in the future that Turkey will try to promote the international recognition of ''TRNC'' but we will have to wait and see how successful will that be.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

As a Cypriot I will say a few things.
First of all Cyprus is de facto partitioned but is de jure one state.
Secondly, decades ago it was agreed by Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot political elites that the solution of the problem will be a federal state, made up of two autonomous states, each one ruled by a different community.
Also, neither the Greek-Cypriots want to be part of Greece neither the Turkish-Cypriots want to be part of Turkey.
While the Turkish-Cypriots consider partition plan B, for Greek-Cypriots it is unacceptable. Most of the land in the occupied part of Cyprus was inhabited by Greek-Cypriots and it still is property of displaced Greek-Cypriots.
In the latest negotiations, which eventually failed, it was agreed that Turkish settlers would remain and most of them would be citizens of united Cyprus.
The hardest element to be solved is if and when all Turkish soldiers will leave from Cyprus.
My opinion is that at the moment a solution is not possible. We will have to wait for 2025 to see if both Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot leaders support a federal solution so that new negotiations will take place. In any case, as time goes by, the Cyprus problem becomes even more complex and harder to solve it. There is a chance in the future that Turkey will try to promote the international recognition of ''TRNC'' but we will have to wait and see how successful will that be.

There are parts I agree with, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to unite Cyprus with the idea of ​​helenoturkism? Didn't the people of Cyprus learn from history? Organizations like EOKA have shed the blood of the Cypriot people. Wouldn't it be good for Greek and Turkish soldiers to stay on the island as a guarantor for a united cyprus ? I wonder what the Greek Cypriot administration did, for example passport threats were made to Turkish Cypriots. What I have observed is that the Turkish Cypriots want to unite, but the Greek administration wants to eliminate the Turks.

-solution for the reunification of Cyprus-
1-The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will be recognized by the United Nations and the European Union.
2-Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots will unite with civic nationalism as a Cypriot ethnic identity.
3-Helenoturkism
4-The fascist terrorist organization EOKA, which commits ethnic genocide against Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, will definitely not be accepted.

[Derhem Sultenet]

Members of the Turkish Enemy Yerevan lobby are at work again. Those who bring Erdogan and the Turkish Nation side by side are experiencing a different dimension of racism.These racists, who do not learn from history, will disappear in the bright light of social democratic Kemalism supported by the European Union. We have been here for 102 years and we will continue to be here. We do not accept the Middle East, fed by political Islam. always the same tale, political Islam is the pawn of the Turkish enemies. The blood of the Turkish people is not your source of money. Long live Kemalism, long live united Cyprus !

(Image)

Can you please tone your ridiculous propaganda down and stop whining about being "oppressed" while promoting Turkic Europeanist supremacist ideals? Is that possible, or are you going to keep playing the victim card all the time?

[Derhem Sultenet]

As a Cypriot I will say a few things.
First of all Cyprus is de facto partitioned but is de jure one state.
Secondly, decades ago it was agreed by Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot political elites that the solution of the problem will be a federal state, made up of two autonomous states, each one ruled by a different community.
Also, neither the Greek-Cypriots want to be part of Greece neither the Turkish-Cypriots want to be part of Turkey.
While the Turkish-Cypriots consider partition plan B, for Greek-Cypriots it is unacceptable. Most of the land in the occupied part of Cyprus was inhabited by Greek-Cypriots and it still is property of displaced Greek-Cypriots.
In the latest negotiations, which eventually failed, it was agreed that Turkish settlers would remain and most of them would be citizens of united Cyprus.
The hardest element to be solved is if and when all Turkish soldiers will leave from Cyprus.
My opinion is that at the moment a solution is not possible. We will have to wait for 2025 to see if both Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot leaders support a federal solution so that new negotiations will take place. In any case, as time goes by, the Cyprus problem becomes even more complex and harder to solve it. There is a chance in the future that Turkey will try to promote the international recognition of ''TRNC'' but we will have to wait and see how successful will that be.

I agree with all of this, and I do wish for a better negotiation process in 2025, sadly I fear that the separatists and settlers in the North, backed by Erdogan, will continue to be a huge stumbling block. But things are always changing, perhaps Tatar will be voted out and there will be true, genuine, and friendly talks between Greek-Cypriots and Turkish-Cypriots.

[Novus America]

“Helenoturkism” is just Turkish imperialism by another name.
Given the power disparity between the two in terms of land forces, the population disparity and the fact it exists to just continue the Turkish occupation while at the same time treating Greece something like Russia treats Ukraine.

Like the “Pan Slavism” or “all Rus are one people” is just a vehicle for Russian imperialism.

It is not like the smaller states in that “one” are any more than client states and colonies.

[Derhem Sultenet]

“Helenoturkism” is just Turkish imperialism by another name.
Given the power disparity better the two in terms of land forces, and the fact it exists to just continue the Turkish occupation while at the same time treating Greece something like Russia treats Ukraine,

Like the “Pan Slavism” or “all Rus are one people” is just a vehicle for Russian imperialism.

It is not like the smaller states in that “one” are any more than client states an colonies.

You're 100 percent correct. Also, that person is just a secular Turkish nationalist, not even really worth my time, I am just poking the bear at this point lmao. They are constantly spreading their ideological propaganda in any and all threads even tangentially related to Turkey, they are also extremely anti-Islam and worship at the alter of the EU. Ideology can be a heck of a drug, as they say.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

“Helenoturkism” is just Turkish imperialism by another name.
Given the power disparity between the two in terms of land forces, the population disparity and the fact it exists to just continue the Turkish occupation while at the same time treating Greece something like Russia treats Ukraine.

Like the “Pan Slavism” or “all Rus are one people” is just a vehicle for Russian imperialism.

It is not like the smaller states in that “one” are any more than client states and colonies.

Hellenoturkism is a unity formation, an attempt to make Greeks and Turks a single state because we have historical and cultural common ties, the best example of this we see on the island of Cyprus. The American government does not want the establishment of a union state in Cyprus because it wants to increase the arms market. just like the politicians they support. I wonder, will you be able to maintain the same policies when the Kemalists come to power in Turkey? Turks and Greeks should give a European lesson to the United States.

[Nolo gap]

historical precident seldom generates the most optimal solutions, or at least, unless we're talking about culture rather then hierarchy.

logic firmly rooted in universal and mutual consideration does. or at least stands as good or better a chance of doing so.

who should own any place are the {string of singularly appropriate expletives} people who live there!

[Herador]

“Helenoturkism” is just Turkish imperialism by another name.
Given the power disparity between the two in terms of land forces, the population disparity and the fact it exists to just continue the Turkish occupation while at the same time treating Greece something like Russia treats Ukraine.

Like the “Pan Slavism” or “all Rus are one people” is just a vehicle for Russian imperialism.

It is not like the smaller states in that “one” are any more than client states and colonies.

Hellenoturkism is a unity formation, an attempt to make Greeks and Turks a single state because we have historical and cultural common ties, the best example of this we see on the island of Cyprus. The American government does not want the establishment of a union state in Cyprus because it wants to increase the arms market. just like the politicians they support. I wonder, will you be able to maintain the same policies when the Kemalists come to power in Turkey? Turks and Greeks should give a European lesson to the United States.

When is the great Kemalist revolution anyway? You talk about it as a certainty but never give specifics beyond blatant ideological platitudes. Why should anyone here take anything you say seriously when your posts read like a propaganda generator?

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Hellenoturkism is a unity formation, an attempt to make Greeks and Turks a single state because we have historical and cultural common ties, the best example of this we see on the island of Cyprus. The American government does not want the establishment of a union state in Cyprus because it wants to increase the arms market. just like the politicians they support. I wonder, will you be able to maintain the same policies when the Kemalists come to power in Turkey? Turks and Greeks should give a European lesson to the United States.

When is the great Kemalist revolution anyway? You talk about it as a certainty but never give specifics beyond blatant ideological platitudes. Why should anyone here take anything you say seriously when your posts read like a propaganda generator?

Look, we are aware of the damage done by attacking here and there and war like the Ottomans. States exist because for the people, without the people, there would be no states. we are those who see the future of humanity in the European Union. The 2019 local elections in Istanbul and the struggle of the Turkish opposition against political Islam are the clearest indicators of this. They couldn't solve the Cyprus problem, but we will. The people of Cyprus want to unite, those who do not want to unite can go to their fascist dystopias. We will reconcile the nations. This will happen whether the separatists like it or not, just like the future of secularism in Saudi Arabia and Iran. The utopia of secular Social democracy is for humanity. No fascists allowed!

[Herador]

When is the great Kemalist revolution anyway? You talk about it as a certainty but never give specifics beyond blatant ideological platitudes. Why should anyone here take anything you say seriously when your posts read like a propaganda generator?

Look, we are aware of the damage done by attacking here and there and war like the Ottomans. States exist because for the people, without the people, there would be no states. we are those who see the future of humanity in the European Union. The 2019 local elections in Istanbul and the struggle of the Turkish opposition against political Islam are the clearest indicators of this. They couldn't solve the Cyprus problem, but we will. The people of Cyprus want to unite, those who do not want to unite can go to their fascist dystopias. We will reconcile the nations. This will happen whether the separatists like it or not, just like the future of secularism in Saudi Arabia and Iran. The utopia of secular Social democracy is for humanity. No fascists allowed!

Bro, who the fuck is this "we" you keep bringing up? You speaking French or something cause I only see you posting weird screeds all over. I honestly don't give a damn about your usual list of topics, I just want you to tell me two things:

• When is the revolution, exactly?
• Why should anyone take you seriously?

Real easy, give it a shot.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Look, we are aware of the damage done by attacking here and there and war like the Ottomans. States exist because for the people, without the people, there would be no states. we are those who see the future of humanity in the European Union. The 2019 local elections in Istanbul and the struggle of the Turkish opposition against political Islam are the clearest indicators of this. They couldn't solve the Cyprus problem, but we will. The people of Cyprus want to unite, those who do not want to unite can go to their fascist dystopias. We will reconcile the nations. This will happen whether the separatists like it or not, just like the future of secularism in Saudi Arabia and Iran. The utopia of secular Social democracy is for humanity. No fascists allowed!

Bro, who the fuck is this "we" you keep bringing up? You speaking French or something cause I only see you posting weird screeds all over. I honestly don't give a damn about your usual list of topics, I just want you to tell me two things:

• When is the revolution, exactly?
• Why should anyone take you seriously?

Real easy, give it a shot.

I'm sorry I have a hard time writing English it's my fault.

1-Until the Social Democratic Kemlaists clean up political Islam and the hate speech it brings. They suffered their first defeat in the Istanbul elections.
2-I really don't understand what your second question means.

[Herador]

Bro, who the fuck is this "we" you keep bringing up? You speaking French or something cause I only see you posting weird screeds all over. I honestly don't give a damn about your usual list of topics, I just want you to tell me two things:

• When is the revolution, exactly?
• Why should anyone take you seriously?

Real easy, give it a shot.

I'm sorry I have a hard time writing English it's my fault.

1-Until the Social Democratic Kemlaists clean up political Islam and the hate speech it brings. They suffered their first defeat in the Istanbul elections.
2-I really don't understand what your second question means.

Your first reply answered the second question, good enough.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I'm sorry I have a hard time writing English it's my fault.

1-Until the Social Democratic Kemlaists clean up political Islam and the hate speech it brings. They suffered their first defeat in the Istanbul elections.
2-I really don't understand what your second question means.

Your first reply answered the second question, good enough.

We see that Greece has taken really solid steps in this regard, their struggle against the fascists and their justice system are really good, but a Greece under the control of the United States makes me very uncomfortable. Turks and Greeks should understand that if America wants a very powerful state, it can colonize two states and I refuse to be a pawn of America in the cold war between America and Russia. I know that there are factions in Greece, Turkey and Cyprus that will jointly solve the Cyprus problem. The Turkish side of this solution is definitely social democratic Kemalism.Just read the UN walls in Cyprus and you'll see what I mean.

[Novus America]

“Helenoturkism” is just Turkish imperialism by another name.
Given the power disparity between the two in terms of land forces, the population disparity and the fact it exists to just continue the Turkish occupation while at the same time treating Greece something like Russia treats Ukraine.

Like the “Pan Slavism” or “all Rus are one people” is just a vehicle for Russian imperialism.

It is not like the smaller states in that “one” are any more than client states and colonies.

Hellenoturkism is a unity formation, an attempt to make Greeks and Turks a single state because we have historical and cultural common ties, the best example of this we see on the island of Cyprus. The American government does not want the establishment of a union state in Cyprus because it wants to increase the arms market. just like the politicians they support. I wonder, will you be able to maintain the same policies when the Kemalists come to power in Turkey? Turks and Greeks should give a European lesson to the United States.

And Russia made the same claims while raping and pillaging Poland in the name of “Pan Slavism”. Not to mention how Russia makes same claims of unity while bombing Ukraine. Or the Japanese Empire made claims of Asian unity while committing unspeakable atrocities in China, the Philippines, etc.

Come on, I am not the smartest person, but I am not that stupid. You make the same exact claims as countless brutal conquers in the past. And we already saw what the Turkish Army, then controlled by KEMALISTS did to the Greeks of Northern Cyprus.
I am very sure they do not want to be driven from their homes at gunpoint again.

Turkish imperialism is hardly unique to Erdogan’s Islamists and in fact is quite well supported by many Kemalists. Note many Kemalists back Erdogan on the Blue Homeland stuff.

So even if the Kemalists could beat Erdogan, which they cannot, it would not solve anything as it was Kemalists who helped cause this in the first place.

The US has supported the Annan Plan so obviously you claims are BS. The US does not benefit from the divide. The guilt the US bears is letting Turkey get away with too much.

But I see bo point continuing this, instead of directly answering you just spout the same propaganda and talking points.

The simple fact is the Greeks and Greek Cypriots do not want to be under you “Hellenoturkist” yoke again.

[Novus America]

Your first reply answered the second question, good enough.

We see that Greece has taken really solid steps in this regard, their struggle against the fascists and their justice system are really good, but a Greece under the control of the United States makes me very uncomfortable. Turks and Greeks should understand that if America wants a very powerful state, it can colonize two states and I refuse to be a pawn of America in the cold war between America and Russia. I know that there are factions in Greece, Turkey and Cyprus that will jointly solve the Cyprus problem. The Turkish side of this solution is definitely social democratic Kemalism.Just read the UN walls in Cyprus and you'll see what I mean.

If you actually think Greece is under control of the US that is part of the problem. Your perception is divorced from reality. Greece already is independent. It does not need Turkish dominance to achieve it.

And again it was Kemalists who created the TRNC in the first place! With Kemalists pushing the Blue Homeland and other things hostile to Greeks, it is just as much Kemalists who are the problem as it is Erdogan.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Hellenoturkism is a unity formation, an attempt to make Greeks and Turks a single state because we have historical and cultural common ties, the best example of this we see on the island of Cyprus. The American government does not want the establishment of a union state in Cyprus because it wants to increase the arms market. just like the politicians they support. I wonder, will you be able to maintain the same policies when the Kemalists come to power in Turkey? Turks and Greeks should give a European lesson to the United States.

And Russia made the same claims while raping and pillaging Poland in the name of “Pan Slavism”. Not to mention how Russia makes same claims of unity while bombing Ukraine. Or the Japanese Empire made claims of Asian unity while committing unspeakable atrocities in China, the Philippines, etc.

Come on, I am not the smartest person, but I am not that stupid. You make the same exact claims as countless brutal conquers in the past. And we already saw what the Turkish Army, then controlled by KEMALISTS did to the Greeks of Northern Cyprus.
I am very sure they do not want to be driven from their homes at gunpoint again.

Turkish imperialism is hardly unique to Erdogan’s Islamists and in fact is quite well supported by many Kemalists. Note many Kemalists back Erdogan on the Blue Homeland stuff.

So even if the Kemalists could beat Erdogan, which they cannot, it would not solve anything as it was Kemalists who helped cause this in the first place.

The US has supported the Annan Plan so obviously you claims are BS. The US does not benefit from the divide. The guilt the US bears is letting Turkey get away with too much.

But I see bo point continuing this, instead of directly answering you just spout the same propaganda and talking points.

The simple fact is the Greeks and Greek Cypriots do not want to be under you “Hellenoturkist” yoke again.

The American government that brought Erdogan to power. I strongly advise you not to play with the intelligence of the Turkish Nation. Anatolia, Cyprus and the Balkans are not like vitnam lands. America can only provoke separatists in this geography. The people of Greece and Turkey do not eat this tale. What you don't understand is that Erdogan only cares about his own interests. Putting the Kemalists on the same level as Erdogan shows that Americanist politics do not understand anything about the region.Again, don't try to portray all Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots as puppets of your American nationalism, the Roman Empire will teach the United States a lesson. Cyprus belongs to Cypriots ! Novus America ask yourself the question why is america the most disliked country in the world. Then let's discuss the Cyprus issue. Please don't view me as an anti-American.