Atheism and Agnosticism discrimination thread

[Resilient Acceleration]

I actually think that Muslims, at least those in my community, would be more predisposed to discriminating Pagans than atheists. After all, we have no religious precedent for atheists. Meanwhile, most of Islam's 25 prophet talks about how they are trying to convert the misguided Pagans from "worshipping idols" (I mean, if you know're exposed to at least a little bit about polytheism, you'll know that it's obviously cannot be stereotyped with asinine terms like "worshipping a rock".) Also, when the pagans refused to listen, God genocided them off the Earth through orbital carpet bombardment, earthquake, violent winds, and similar. Which, I mean isn't usually a good precedent in terms of establishing peaceful relations and mutual understanding.

How do curiosity, how will they treat deists?

I first heard the term "Deist" when I was like in highschool, so you'll probably get a blank stare. However, my current society has apparently defined "agnostics" as "deists" (people who believe in God but not any religion). Which is wrong, but that's the point. And because of that, they'll probably be lumped together with atheists.

[Dakini]

I actually think that Muslims, at least those in my community, would be more predisposed to discriminating Pagans than atheists. After all, we have no religious precedent for atheists. Meanwhile, most of Islam's 25 prophet talks about how they are trying to convert the misguided Pagans from "worshipping idols" (I mean, if you know're exposed to at least a little bit about polytheism, you'll know that it's obviously cannot be stereotyped with asinine terms like "worshipping a rock".) Also, when the pagans refused to listen, God genocided them off the Earth through orbital carpet bombardment, earthquake, violent winds, and similar. Which, I mean isn't usually a good precedent in terms of establishing peaceful relations and mutual understanding.

I live in a small town that probably doesn't have Muslims. We have Christians, Atheists, Jews, and the odd pagan like me. In my experience, it is the atheists that usually try to convert others.

In my experience, it's usually the Christians who are coming to university campuses distributing Bibles and copies of The Origin of Species with an introduction claiming it's all lies that Darwin recanted on his deathbed or harassing women going to outpatient clinics at a hospital/to seek basic health services. It's the Christians who are picketing Pride parades and protesting outside government buildings screaming about the "homosexual agenda". It's the Christians who are pitching a fit over "Winter Break" and "Happy Holidays" and "pregnant people" other inclusive terms. It's the Christians creating "pregnancy crisis clinics" where they lie to women about abortion and leave them high and dry when the baby comes. It's the Christians trying to keep women from accessing birth control.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I've never faced serious discrimination due to being an atheist but did have some issues at my secondary school when i openly stated i didn't believe in god and didn't want to go to confession and mass etc which was mandatory every year (It was a catholic run school, yay education in Northern Ireland! but had non catholic students too). Basically they didn't believe me and thought I was just lying to get out of it but i argued there were some Muslim kids at the school who didn't have to go so why should I and I was backed up on this by one of said Muslim kids and the school librarian but they still made me go.

I straight up told one of the priests they brought in once that I didn't believe in god and they were just making me go and after asking why i didn't believe in god he basically said "yeah that's fine just go sit up there and make it look like you are praying then leave with the other kids" Then I eventually just stopped going to them anyway and the school threatened me with detention but when I told my parents my dad rang the school and they dropped the issue.

I come from a catholic family but my family isn't that practicing so thankfully faced no issues at home with it. Nor have i faced any issues since secondary school in any other aspect of my life due to my atheist views. Though i do get some sectarian attitudes from certain people due to my Irish Catholic background but thats more of a specific problem to NI and is more than just religious stuff but also ethnic and national identity based.

Do you think that the atheists in Protestant families had it harder than atheists in Catholic families in Northern Ireland?

I'm not certain but I think it could be a realistic possibility. Atheists in my experience tend to be more left-wing in their political views and in Northern Ireland, out of our two main communities, Nationalists (Irish and Catholic) and Unionists (British and Protestant), the former are definitely more left-wing in our political views where as Unionism tends to be more right-wing and socially conservative, at times very socially conservative with a big focus on Religion which isn't as prevalent on the nationalist side any more.

So i think with the left-wing history of most Irish Catholics in NI and the decline of important and influence of the Catholic Church in Ireland as a whole in recent decades you could find more atheists who are open about their beliefs in Catholic areas than in Protestant communities. In my own personal experience the most devout religious people ive met over the last few years in University and work have been from Protestant backgrounds. But at the same time i did meet a lot of irreligious people, or at least a lot of non practising people from both religious backgrounds so it might be more accepted with younger Protestant families.

[Czervenika]

I live in a small town that probably doesn't have Muslims. We have Christians, Atheists, Jews, and the odd pagan like me. In my experience, it is the atheists that usually try to convert others.

Tbh I think this is because most vocal atheists are converts, which are often far more proactive about their beliefs due to its very nature. Born-again Christians, Christian converts, and mualafs (new Islamic converts) are often the prime hotbeds of radicalism, too.

This has some truth to it I think. I was raised irreligious and I never go out of my way to attack religion unless some fundie is being an asshole to me or something. I just don't care to. I find it odd how many atheists talk about God more than many religious people do.

[Ladinacem Andia]

I'm not entirely sure what there is to discuss here, as there's no specific prompt. However, I will give my two cents.

I'm not one to rely on anecdotal or personal evidence, but in a thread such as this I do feel it necessary. As a practicing Roman Catholic, I have been ridiculed in college courses for my beliefs, regularly rejected on the premise that it is "ridiculous to believe in an old man in the sky" (though this argument is itself a ridiculous strawman). This is exceptionally prevalent in higher education throughout the nation - indeed, the states with the highest percentages of atheists/agnostics tend also to be the sites of the United States' top colleges (Vermont, Massachusetts, etc.). I have never heard atheism ridiculed this publicly, though I have to admit I may simply have yet to encounter it. I have been blessed with several wonderful professors across the Abrahamic spectrum, and thus I have always witnessed calm and respectful debate from them with the atheists in their courses. I am a philosophy major, so the discussion is common among students.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Weak Agnostics are literally the most wronged people, even atheists see us as cowardly atheists. I hate being warned about eating out during Ramadan. I do not interfere with Muslims, I do not want them to interfere with me. In fact, a secular society defends the rights of all people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS6kAxa7_dc

[Czervenika]

Weak Agnostics are literally the most wronged people, even atheists see us as cowardly atheists. I hate being warned about eating out during Ramadan. I do not interfere with Muslims, I do not want them to interfere with me. In fact, a secular society defends the rights of all people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS6kAxa7_dc

I don't understand Turkish. Is that an Iman telling people not to eat in public during Ramadan?

[LoFi Banana]

Tbh I think this is because most vocal atheists are converts, which are often far more proactive about their beliefs due to its very nature. Born-again Christians, Christian converts, and mualafs (new Islamic converts) are often the prime hotbeds of radicalism, too.

This has some truth to it I think. I was raised irreligious and I never go out of my way to attack religion unless some fundie is being an asshole to me or something. I just don't care to. I find it odd how many atheists talk about God more than many religious people do.

I was raised as a Catholic, but "converted to" paganism when I was 11 on my own accord. I just don't give a fuck what people's religion or lack thereof is. While some converts (like me) are pretty tolerant and respect other peoples beliefs, a lot are wildly evangelical and will stop at nothing to bully others into converting.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Weak Agnostics are literally the most wronged people, even atheists see us as cowardly atheists. I hate being warned about eating out during Ramadan. I do not interfere with Muslims, I do not want them to interfere with me. In fact, a secular society defends the rights of all people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS6kAxa7_dc

I don't understand Turkish. Is that an Iman telling people not to eat in public during Ramadan?

I don't know his profession but he is a Muslim man who says Turkey is a Muslim country. That's why he gets angry with people who eat during Ramadan. There was a group of Muslims who bothered drinkers just because they were drinking. We Kemalists have never persecuted believers, but they persecute us.

[Ladinacem Andia]

I live in a small town that probably doesn't have Muslims. We have Christians, Atheists, Jews, and the odd pagan like me. In my experience, it is the atheists that usually try to convert others.

In my experience, it's usually the Christians who are coming to university campuses distributing Bibles and copies of The Origin of Species with an introduction claiming it's all lies that Darwin recanted on his deathbed or harassing women going to outpatient clinics at a hospital/to seek basic health services. It's the Christians who are picketing Pride parades and protesting outside government buildings screaming about the "homosexual agenda". It's the Christians who are pitching a fit over "Winter Break" and "Happy Holidays" and "pregnant people" other inclusive terms. It's the Christians creating "pregnancy crisis clinics" where they lie to women about abortion and leave them high and dry when the baby comes. It's the Christians trying to keep women from accessing birth control.

What's the issue with distributing Bibles?

(Also, those are mainly the Evangelical Protestants, which make up around 13.1% of Christians worldwide. Making vast generalizations about all Christians, when we are a vastly theologically diverse religion, is both ideologically dishonest and borderline offensive.)

[Ladinacem Andia]

This has some truth to it I think. I was raised irreligious and I never go out of my way to attack religion unless some fundie is being an asshole to me or something. I just don't care to. I find it odd how many atheists talk about God more than many religious people do.

I was raised as a Catholic, but "converted to" paganism when I was 11 on my own accord. I just don't give a fuck what people's religion or lack thereof is. While some converts (like me) are pretty tolerant and respect other peoples beliefs, a lot are wildly evangelical and will stop at nothing to bully others into converting.

I don't want to threadjack here, but could you quickly expand on what you mean when you say pagan?

[Dakini]

In my experience, it's usually the Christians who are coming to university campuses distributing Bibles and copies of The Origin of Species with an introduction claiming it's all lies that Darwin recanted on his deathbed or harassing women going to outpatient clinics at a hospital/to seek basic health services. It's the Christians who are picketing Pride parades and protesting outside government buildings screaming about the "homosexual agenda". It's the Christians who are pitching a fit over "Winter Break" and "Happy Holidays" and "pregnant people" other inclusive terms. It's the Christians creating "pregnancy crisis clinics" where they lie to women about abortion and leave them high and dry when the baby comes. It's the Christians trying to keep women from accessing birth control.

What's the issue with distributing Bibles?

It's an attempt to convert people? You claimed that atheists were usually the ones trying to convert people. Also, usually these aren't student groups doing that, it's some other lunatics who aren't actually allowed to operate on university campuses.

Oh, I guess I didn't even get into the number of times Mormons or Mennonites have tried to convert me while I'm walking around minding my own business. Or Jehovah's Witnesses coming to my house to bother me on Saturday morning. Or loudmouths standing on milk crates screaming about how non-believers are going to hell.

(Also, those are mainly the Evangelical Protestants, which make up around 13.1% of Christians worldwide. Making vast generalizations about all Christians, when we are a vastly theologically diverse religion, is both ideologically dishonest and borderline offensive.)

You're the one claiming that atheists go around trying to convert people more than Christians. In my experience, it's very much the opposite. I'm not generalizing any more than you did.

[LoFi Banana]

I was raised as a Catholic, but "converted to" paganism when I was 11 on my own accord. I just don't give a fuck what people's religion or lack thereof is. While some converts (like me) are pretty tolerant and respect other peoples beliefs, a lot are wildly evangelical and will stop at nothing to bully others into converting.

I don't want to threadjack here, but could you quickly expand on what you mean when you say pagan?

Me specifically? A mixture of Shinto, Buddhism, and Taoism.

[Ladinacem Andia]

What's the issue with distributing Bibles?

It's an attempt to convert people? You claimed that atheists were usually the ones trying to convert people. Also, usually these aren't student groups doing that, it's some other lunatics who aren't actually allowed to operate on university campuses.

Oh, I guess I didn't even get into the number of times Mormons or Mennonites have tried to convert me while I'm walking around minding my own business. Or Jehovah's Witnesses coming to my house to bother me on Saturday morning. Or loudmouths standing on milk crates screaming about how non-believers are going to hell.

(Also, those are mainly the Evangelical Protestants, which make up around 13.1% of Christians worldwide. Making vast generalizations about all Christians, when we are a vastly theologically diverse religion, is both ideologically dishonest and borderline offensive.)

You're the one claiming that atheists go around trying to convert people more than Christians. In my experience, it's very much the opposite. I'm not generalizing any more than you did.

I think you're mistaking me for the poster you responded to. I never claimed atheists were "the ones" trying to convert people. I would generally agree that Evangelical Christians do try to convert people, as that's a massive part of their doctrine.

[Czervenika]

I don't want to threadjack here, but could you quickly expand on what you mean when you say pagan?

Me specifically? A mixture of Shinto, Buddhism, and Taoism.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your ethnic background? I'm just curious since it would seem a little odd for a non-Japanese to embrace Shintoism.

[Dakini]

It's an attempt to convert people? You claimed that atheists were usually the ones trying to convert people. Also, usually these aren't student groups doing that, it's some other lunatics who aren't actually allowed to operate on university campuses.

Oh, I guess I didn't even get into the number of times Mormons or Mennonites have tried to convert me while I'm walking around minding my own business. Or Jehovah's Witnesses coming to my house to bother me on Saturday morning. Or loudmouths standing on milk crates screaming about how non-believers are going to hell.


You're the one claiming that atheists go around trying to convert people more than Christians. In my experience, it's very much the opposite. I'm not generalizing any more than you did.

I think you're mistaking me for the poster you responded to. I never claimed atheists were "the ones" trying to convert people. I would generally agree that Evangelical Christians do try to convert people, as that's a massive part of their doctrine.

Okay...

So what you're saying is that you responded to me pointing out all the ways Christians go around bothering people and trying to convert them without seeing what I'm responding to and then accuse me of generalizing about Christians. Maybe you should look at the context before lobbying accusations like that?

Also, it's not just Evangelical Christians. I've been harassed by Mormons on three continents, by Jehovah's Witnesses on two (I even had a boss who gave me a copy of the fucking Watchtower). I've seen Catholics and mainstream Protestants picket abortion clinics and hospitals and Pride parades. I've seen street preachers spouting all kinds of shit in five different countries across three continents. I had a teacher in high school who threatened to send me to a Bible Study class as punishment for swearing in class (she would also regularly tell the Muslim students to take off their "hats"). All kinds of Christians go around trying to convert people.

[LoFi Banana]

Me specifically? A mixture of Shinto, Buddhism, and Taoism.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your ethnic background? I'm just curious since it would seem a little odd for a non-Japanese to embrace Shintoism.

There are Korean Jews. Why should it matter?

[Ayytaly]

Atheists discriminate Muslims far more than Christians do. That's what birthed the New Atheism movement.

My understanding is that the New Atheist movement started as opposition to the political power of Christianity, especially in the US, and then turned into an anti-Muslim, anti-feminist, "dark enlightenment" shitfest.

And also the alt-right.

[Page]

I consider myself agnostic in relation to the broad idea of God, but I am a strong atheist when it comes to the idea of a God that judges human actions and rewards and punishes people. Because the idea of an infinite being having anything close to human notions of morality is patently absurd. Do you pass moral judgment on bacteria? Do you think bacteria are moral agents that should be punished for their sins? To an infinite God, that is what we would be. God would not even consider us sentient.

But as to a more abstract God, it's possible. And so are a million other things that we can't imagine. For all we know, our observable universe is an insignificant little flash in a much bigger everything. We may never be able to understand or access the true "everything." Our brains might just be incapable of it. You couldn't teach nuclear physics to the smartest chicken. And maybe in the everything here is God, and maybe God is blind to their role as an insignificant little thing in an even bigger everything.

[Ayytaly]

I consider myself agnostic in relation to the broad idea of God, but I am a strong atheist when it comes to the idea of a God that judges human actions and rewards and punishes people. Because the idea of an infinite being having anything close to human notions of morality is patently absurd. Do you pass moral judgment on bacteria? Do you think bacteria are moral agents that should be punished for their sins? To an infinite God, that is what we would be. God would not even consider us sentient.

But as to a more abstract God, it's possible. And so are a million other things that we can't imagine. For all we know, our observable universe is an insignificant little flash in a much bigger everything. We may never be able to understand or access the true "everything." Our brains might just be incapable of it. You couldn't teach nuclear physics to the smartest chicken. And maybe in the everything here is God, and maybe God is blind to their role as an insignificant little thing in an even bigger everything.

So Oppenhauer did nothing wrong then.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

I had to be honest here, have you noticed that many of the countries that used to be predominantly Christian, are now mainly secular? I'm just saying.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

simply don't be an atheist

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

I had to be honest here, have you noticed that many of the countries that used to be predominantly Christian, are now mainly secular? I'm just saying.

if you think western europe is the entire world sure

[Punished UMN]

I had to be honest here, have you noticed that many of the countries that used to be predominantly Christian, are now mainly secular? I'm just saying.

if you think western europe is the entire world sure

I mean central and Eastern Europe are also quite secular, there aren't many traditionally Christian countries that aren't secular today.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

if you think western europe is the entire world sure

I mean central and Eastern Europe are also quite secular, there aren't many traditionally Christian countries that aren't secular today.

i'm assuming 'mainly secular' is supposed to mean 'mainly irreligious' here, not the actual style of governance. maybe i interpreted what they meant wrong; i do agree that obviously if we're talking government, there aren't really christian theocracies that exist anymore.