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WHO is the next superpower?

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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Tue May 18, 2010 3:34 am

Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower

That actually is another reason they may never be a super power.

Its why even though they were supposedly more powerful than Europe was, even if they had been united that they got assraped 3 centuries later.
Last edited by Lackadaisical2 on Tue May 18, 2010 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Swazderland
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Postby Swazderland » Tue May 18, 2010 4:45 am

Jaunty tunes wrote:So China may need a bit longer to arrive in parts of the world. The fact is that china is the largest country and the fastest growing with an unknown military budget.

The US has extended itself into numerous combat failures. The chinese just target countries that serve its own intrest. It is a selfish super power that would not care less if a country was wiped off the map as long as the refuguees do not enter china as that would cost china money. Everything they do is to maximise profit. World responsibility is put on the back foot.

If by super power you mean military deployment in different regions America is the top. But financially China has a much bigger say for most countries than the US has.


not in population, the 1 child control means that they soon will be declining (so many more boys than girls, as the boys stay and help family) that would affect them
(heard news of the possibility of taking the controll away)

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Andaluciae
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Postby Andaluciae » Tue May 18, 2010 6:44 am

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower

That actually is another reason they may never be a super power.

Its why even though they were supposedly more powerful than Europe was, even if they had been united that they got assraped 3 centuries later.


You're not the only one to express the view that China's external goals are...limited.
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Andaluciae
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Postby Andaluciae » Tue May 18, 2010 6:48 am

Jaunty tunes wrote:So China may need a bit longer to arrive in parts of the world. The fact is that china is the largest country and the fastest growing with an unknown military budget.

The US has extended itself into numerous combat failures. The chinese just target countries that serve its own intrest. It is a selfish super power that would not care less if a country was wiped off the map as long as the refuguees do not enter china as that would cost china money. Everything they do is to maximise profit. World responsibility is put on the back foot.

If by super power you mean military deployment in different regions America is the top. But financially China has a much bigger say for most countries than the US has.


Which is part of what limits the growth potential of the PRC--their inability to deliver that catch-all idea that drives movements, justifies governments and sways populaces around the world. It's able to bring its money to bear around the world, but there's no clear effort to "sell" China around the world, and that will limit their capabilities.
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Of the Quendi
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Postby Of the Quendi » Tue May 18, 2010 6:56 am

Self--Esteem wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower


China is a major economic driving force, dealing on all global markets, getting people to invest in their country.
No European nation comes even close to that. The EU is far more isolationist.

No of course not. Individually. Combined the EU has already overtaken the US and if it where a federation it would be an economic superpower.
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Of the Quendi
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Postby Of the Quendi » Tue May 18, 2010 6:56 am

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower

That actually is another reason they may never be a super power.

Its why even though they were supposedly more powerful than Europe was, even if they had been united that they got assraped 3 centuries later.


Who are you talking about now? China or Europe?
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Andaluciae
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Postby Andaluciae » Tue May 18, 2010 6:58 am

Of the Quendi wrote:
Self--Esteem wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower


China is a major economic driving force, dealing on all global markets, getting people to invest in their country.
No European nation comes even close to that. The EU is far more isolationist.

No of course not. Individually. Combined the EU has already overtaken the US and if it where a federation it would be an economic superpower.


Except it isn't, and the stability of the Union seems far more shaky than it did just a few short months ago.
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Kington Langley
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WHO is the next superpower?

Postby Kington Langley » Tue May 18, 2010 7:02 am

So what if the next superpower is slightly isolationist, when the USA and the UK declared war on Iraq to 'spread democracy' the people were not happy about it, I say stay out of ther people's business if you want to come across as a respected nation rather than a 'pest' like America. They just can't leave the world to do things on their own. :lol2:
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F-Carthage IV
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Postby F-Carthage IV » Tue May 18, 2010 8:21 am

Tunisia.

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Birnadia
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Postby Birnadia » Tue May 18, 2010 8:42 am

Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

oh god please not.
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Minotzia
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Postby Minotzia » Tue May 18, 2010 1:43 pm

Kington Langley wrote:So what if the next superpower is slightly isolationist, when the USA and the UK declared war on Iraq to 'spread democracy' the people were not happy about it, I say stay out of ther people's business if you want to come across as a respected nation rather than a 'pest' like America. They just can't leave the world to do things on their own. :lol2:


There's no such thing as an isolationist superpower. Isolationism is totally flawed in practice and the concept itself would undermine international power; you can't be the hegemon and be an isolationist. Every global hegemon in history ends up being resented by the rest of the world because it has so much more power, the US, Great Britain, Spain, Rome, China, India, and any other regional or global hegemon has been extremely disliked during its reign. After Pax Americana is over we'll see a lot more good in America's time than bad, certainly, as we tend to skip over the bad parts in history.

It seems as if everyone just assumes that China will become the next superpower, and refuses to acknowledge the myriad of problems it faces and the physical limits to its growth. And everyone also assumes the US will simply sit idly by as China usurps the world order with its great friends Sudan, Zimbabwe, the DPRK and Venezuela...

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Postby North Suran » Tue May 18, 2010 2:05 pm

Minotzia wrote:There's no such thing as an isolationist superpower.

Does the phrase "Perfidious Albion" ring a bell?
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Postby The chrisman union » Tue May 18, 2010 2:10 pm

Why, the Chrisman Union of course.

sorry...
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Postby Yethtu » Tue May 18, 2010 2:10 pm

I beleive the age of superpowers is over.

The world is going to have to co-operate to get anything more done.

I'd say our leaders are the USA in technology and reaserch, China in light industry, Russia in heavy industry, and the US in food production. Raw material wise, Canada and Brazil have it made.

Basiclly, they will be our "Big Five"
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Postby Capitalist Free States » Tue May 18, 2010 2:17 pm

Panama will be the next megapower. See?

http://www.jimolsson-artist.com.au/images/l_Me-In-Panama-Hat.jpg

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Postby BAMF Klingon Satanists » Tue May 18, 2010 2:18 pm

Kington Langley wrote:So what if the next superpower is slightly isolationist, when the USA and the UK declared war on Iraq to 'spread democracy' the people were not happy about it, I say stay out of ther people's business if you want to come across as a respected nation rather than a 'pest' like America. They just can't leave the world to do things on their own. :lol2:

When we leave the world on its own they say, "Where the fuck is America."
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Postby Franca-Liria » Tue May 18, 2010 2:18 pm

The EU will probably make a unified military before long. If there is none, still count Europe in, as it will likely grow to dominate African/European/Middle Eastern spheres, India has designs on Tibet and some of former British India, China's growth will peak, then a building bubble there might burst, very likely forcing most nations out of the globalization fad. The United States will be drawn into conflict between the future of the nation, between the far right and the centre-left. America will also face the monterous budget crisis (which will not be solved with small govt', by the way.) Brazil is limited in territorial expansion and the fact that it is a late arrival in the international stage. If the UN does not fall on top of the League of Nations in the coffin, it will likely become mure centralized, with actual elections in nations to decide affairs and issues.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Tue May 18, 2010 2:21 pm

Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Of the Quendi wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Albrante wrote:I'm thinking some sort of EU super state could give china and america a run for their money.

It could, but even if it existed, it'd be totally focused internally.

What do you mean?

That a potential EU unified force would be more concerned with itself than anything happening outside it's borders, just like the vast majority of those countries are now- it'd take a major shift in public and politician opinion in multiple areas.

China is far more internally minded then europe but that doesn't mean China wont become a superpower

That actually is another reason they may never be a super power.

Its why even though they were supposedly more powerful than Europe was, even if they had been united that they got assraped 3 centuries later.


Who are you talking about now? China or Europe?

The first bit works for either.
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Franca-Liria
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Postby Franca-Liria » Tue May 18, 2010 2:22 pm

Yethtu wrote:I beleive the age of superpowers is over.

The world is going to have to co-operate to get anything more done.

I'd say our leaders are the USA in technology and reaserch, China in light industry, Russia in heavy industry, and the US in food production. Raw material wise, Canada and Brazil have it made.

Basiclly, they will be our "Big Five"



So I guess the European Union, with the highest GDP, largest economy, and one of the largest populations in the world, will not be included to the new 'Big 5' conference. If not, they will just dominate the Middle East and Africa through economic and military ties.
Brazil will likely not become a super power, as the only 3 real global powers ATM are Great Britain, France, and the United States. Brazil, Russia, India, and China have little in the way of global projection of military power by way of bases and/or colonies.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Tue May 18, 2010 2:29 pm

Franca-Liria wrote:
Yethtu wrote:I beleive the age of superpowers is over.

The world is going to have to co-operate to get anything more done.

I'd say our leaders are the USA in technology and reaserch, China in light industry, Russia in heavy industry, and the US in food production. Raw material wise, Canada and Brazil have it made.

Basiclly, they will be our "Big Five"



So I guess the European Union, with the highest GDP, largest economy, and one of the largest populations in the world, will not be included to the new 'Big 5' conference. If not, they will just dominate the Middle East and Africa through economic and military ties.
Brazil will likely not become a super power, as the only 3 real global powers ATM are Great Britain, France, and the United States. Brazil, Russia, India, and China have little in the way of global projection of military power by way of bases and/or colonies.

The EU isn't included because it isn't a unified political structure, theres no unified front on foreign issues, just recently France threatened to pull out if it didn't get it's way. Right now the EU is nothing but a loose confederation, perhaps that will change, and if it does and national sovereignty is sufficient eroded, then I'd think about whether it would be a superpower or not.

You'll notice his criteria is nearly completely economic, I disagree with his assessment of Russia though, they're on the down and out route- they're not so much heavy industry (USA does much more of that) than it is raw resources- black gold.
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Minotzia
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Postby Minotzia » Tue May 18, 2010 2:29 pm

North Suran wrote:
Minotzia wrote:There's no such thing as an isolationist superpower.

Does the phrase "Perfidious Albion" ring a bell?


Great Britain intervened all over the globe during its reign, just as Rome, China, ancient Greece, the USSR, and America have done. Isolationism is incompatible with international power.

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Sasica
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Postby Sasica » Tue May 18, 2010 2:38 pm

When you say next super power, you must be assuming that America is no longer the superpower in said amount of time. I am going to have to say...BOTH India and China.

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Conoga
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Postby Conoga » Tue May 18, 2010 2:38 pm

one word, Andorra, it will overpower everyone

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Postby United Russian State » Tue May 18, 2010 2:43 pm

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
You'll notice his criteria is nearly completely economic, I disagree with his assessment of Russia though, they're on the down and out route- they're not so much heavy industry (USA does much more of that) than it is raw resources- black gold.


No, its been on the up route since 2000, even with the economic downturn of late 2008-2009. Modernization efforts have been put on all sectors, not just military, but economic, polictal, science, and so on. Even having to deal with a comeplte economic break down, and years of ecnonmic turmoil the military has been able to achive things no country, but afew [mostly America] can produce. New tanks, aircraft, aircraft carriers are being built. Most distracts are moving away and getting rid of their old gear, in replace of new. Its not drowing in debt like others.

Germany is were heavy industry is at.
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