Judge rules that calling women "birds" is sexist

[The Holy Therns]

Wait, people still say that? I thought that wore off plenty decades ago.

[Archinstinct]

An expectedly soy-fuelled reaction from NSG. There isn't anything wrong with nicknames in the workplace.

"Soy-fuelled"?

Infowars called, they want their gross misunderstanding of science back. Also, to sell you soy-based supplements.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

An expectedly soy-fuelled reaction from NSG. There isn't anything wrong with nicknames in the workplace.

Nicknames in the workplace are unprofessional, unless they're established by mutually implied consent (ie you're dating your coworker).

I'll admit I never cared one way or the other about nicknames until I started working in supervisory positions. Then it gradually sunk in that when you're the boss, it changes things. You can't just go around calling people what you want; they (meaning both the employees and management) hold you to a much higher professional standard.

Couple of exceptions to the rule - off work. Nicknames for coworkers are OK when you're off the job, outside the workplace, interacting socially. But that's where they should end. Again, they should never interfere with professional conduct at the workplace.

I don't doubt that nicknaming your subordinates on the job is unprofessional. I'm just not sure it's enough to justify gov't intervention.

[Godular]

An expectedly soy-fuelled reaction from NSG. There isn't anything wrong with nicknames in the workplace.

There is if you've been asked not to use them. That be called 'hostile work environment'

[Major-Tom]

An expectedly soy-fuelled reaction from NSG. There isn't anything wrong with nicknames in the workplace.

I think the line between calling women birds repeatedly and personalized, yet harmless, nicknames is pretty big.

If you're an employer and don't foresee litigation as a possibility when you repeatedly call female employees a name they explicitly dislike, then you're not thinking clearly.

[Haganham]

An expectedly soy-fuelled reaction from NSG. There isn't anything wrong with nicknames in the workplace.

The term bird is typically reserved for girlfriends, and even then can be taken as derogatory, thanks to asshats like this.

[Grave_n_idle]

So what if they're British laws? Christopher Hitchens was British and he saw the merits of freedom of speech better than many Canadians. You either see value in going where the philosophy of free speech takes you or you don't. You shouldn't need a damn law to remind you of its merit.

You said "In what other context would it be considered legitimate to police speech?" - I'm pointing out that these are UK laws, so whatever baggage you're bringing with you is irrelevant.

Legal right, maybe. Moral right, no.

I don't care about your immoral rules.

[Vassenor]

So what if they're British laws? Christopher Hitchens was British and he saw the merits of freedom of speech better than many Canadians. You either see value in going where the philosophy of free speech takes you or you don't. You shouldn't need a damn law to remind you of its merit.

You said "In what other context would it be considered legitimate to police speech?" - I'm pointing out that these are UK laws, so whatever baggage your bringing with you is irrelevant.

Legal right, maybe. Moral right, no.

I don't care about your immoral rules.

Also apparently doing sexual harassment in the workplace is a moral right now. Ambiguous syntax do be like that.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

You said "In what other context would it be considered legitimate to police speech?" - I'm pointing out that these are UK laws, so whatever baggage your bringing with you is irrelevant.



I don't care about your immoral rules.

Also apparently doing sexual harassment in the workplace is a moral right now. Ambiguous syntax do be like that.

Sexual harassment would be more along the lines of "do this sex act or you won't get your promotion." Given how desperate some people are for a promotion that would be more analogous to rape in any context outside the porn industry or prostitution, wherein at least they knew what sort of job they were applying for. There is a reasonable expectation other jobs work differently.

Comparing an entire sex to a specific species of animal is something many women do with comparing men to dogs or pigs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

. . .

It's alarming how many people think gov't stepping in to police speech is okay as long as it's not against the law. That's treating freedom of speech less like a philosophy to follow and more like a technicality to get around. If you could get the US to repeal its freedom of speech, would you?

[Vassenor]

Also apparently doing sexual harassment in the workplace is a moral right now. Ambiguous syntax do be like that.

Sexual harassment would be more along the lines of "do this sex act or you won't get your promotion." Given how desperate some people are for a promotion that would be more analogous to rape in any context outside the porn industry or prostitution, wherein at least they knew what sort of job they were applying for. There is a reasonable expectation other jobs work differently.

Comparing an entire sex to a specific species of animal is something many women do with comparing men to dogs or pigs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Who tries to pass off "dog" or "pig" as a term of endearment?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Sexual harassment would be more along the lines of "do this sex act or you won't get your promotion." Given how desperate some people are for a promotion that would be more analogous to rape in any context outside the porn industry or prostitution, wherein at least they knew what sort of job they were applying for. There is a reasonable expectation other jobs work differently.

Comparing an entire sex to a specific species of animal is something many women do with comparing men to dogs or pigs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Who tries to pass off "dog" or "pig" as a term of endearment?

I don't know.

All I know is that the comparison to animals is a more objective aspect of analyzing this language than where terms of endearment start and other language begins... let alone whether being a term of endearment makes it more fair game for regulation or less.

[Vassenor]

Who tries to pass off "dog" or "pig" as a term of endearment?

I don't know.

All I know is that the comparison to animals is a more objective aspect of analyzing this language than where terms of endearment start and other language begins... let alone whether being a term of endearment makes it more fair game for regulation or less.

Or you're trying to force a BOTHSAME.

[Zapato]

Comparing an entire sex to a specific species of animal is something many women do with comparing men to dogs or pigs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I don't know about you, but I would not be OK with my (female) manager calling all my male coworkers "pigs" or "dogs". It would be completely unacceptable.

And what's bad for the goose...

[Grave_n_idle]

Sexual harassment would be more along the lines of "do this sex act or you won't get your promotion."

Again, you are just objectively wrong on this.

If you don't know anything about UK law - and are not willing to look it up - you don't actually HAVE TO voice an opinion on it.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Sexual harassment would be more along the lines of "do this sex act or you won't get your promotion."

Again, you are just objectively wrong on this.

If you don't know anything about UK law - and are not willing to look it up - you don't actually HAVE TO voice an opinion on it.

Of course.

But what the law says is irrelevant to one particular point; that any attempt to extend sexual harassment to include terms of endearment is fucking ridiculous. What about all those towns, or neighbourhoods within towns, where terms of endearment are a regular part of speech? Is Baltimore steeped in rape culture because they often say "hon"? Where do you draw the line?

The only thing that's a difference of kind instead of just of degree is the implicit comparison to animals. In which case there are so many other more commonly accepted comparisons to animals that any enforcement would constitute enforcement by hypocrites.

[Salus Maior]

Who even says that anymore?

[Neutraligon]

Who even says that anymore?

I have heard older women called old birds but that is about it. Chick is still a term that is used, but then that one always annoyed me as well.

[The Holy Therns]

Who even says that anymore?

I have heard older women called old birds but that is about it. Chick is still a term that is used, but then that one always annoyed me as well.

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

[Neutraligon]

I have heard older women called old birds but that is about it. Chick is still a term that is used, but then that one always annoyed me as well.

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

Biddy is another one, but I have heard old bird before from those older than 50.

[Ethel mermania]

I have heard older women called old birds but that is about it. Chick is still a term that is used, but then that one always annoyed me as well.

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

Makes me feel like a mod

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

Biddy is another one, but I have heard old bird before from those older than 50.

Ha! I've heard ''biddy'' before and had no idea until now that it had something to do with birds, in this context.

[The Holy Therns]

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

Biddy is another one, but I have heard old bird before from those older than 50.

Literally never heard "biddy" before. Is it even older? That'd explain it.

[Ethel mermania]

Chick, sure, but "bird"? I'd feel stuck in a time warp.

Biddy is another one, but I have heard old bird before from those older than 50.

Biddy is always a pejorative. Chick's is just a descriptive

[The Holy Therns]

Biddy is another one, but I have heard old bird before from those older than 50.

Biddy is always a pejorative. Chick's is just a descriptive

Context is king.

[Pasong Tirad]

Sounds like this is actually a serious case of workplace harassment, and I'm glad the judge sided with the woman on this issue. This should definitely not be oversimplified into just "calling women birds is sexist." It feels like the kind of thing websites would do to clickbait people into sharing their articles and commenting on them without reading them.

And just to be clear, you should definitely not call anybody - especially not people you work with - anything other than their names, their preferred pronouns and the nicknames that they approve of. If you have been told on multiple occasions to not call somebody a certain name, and if you have been told that they are uncomfortable being called that name, you should definitely not call them that name.