AUKUS: Is this the start of WWIII?

[Great Algerstonia]

It finally begins. We need to begin a new Cold War against China. The West needs to make lowering Chinese power and countering Chinese influence a priority. I favor far more radical actions against the People's Republic of China, but this is indeed a very good start.

Woah lad, you don't need to go to either extreme. Maybe it might be a much better idea if we don't get Cold War v2. I'm not saying that we should let China go wild, but we should probably at least try to de-escalate the heated situation.

De-Escalation will help China and hurt the US. If we try to de-escalate this situation, it will be American concessions to the Chinese instead of vice versa. The only option now is forming a bloc to counter and contain China's influence. We need to go to war with China in every way except for a shooting war.

[Ansarullah]

Video by Richard Medhurst explaining what this entails

[Great Algerstonia]

Video by Richard Medhurst explaining what this entails

No way. I am not watching a video that is 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 27 seconds long.

[Ansarullah]

No way. I am not watching a video that is 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 27 seconds long.

I never demanded you do. I just linked a relevant video I just got finished watching and found interesting.

[Accelsior]

Woah lad, you don't need to go to either extreme. Maybe it might be a much better idea if we don't get Cold War v2. I'm not saying that we should let China go wild, but we should probably at least try to de-escalate the heated situation.

De-Escalation will help China and hurt the US. If we try to de-escalate this situation, it will be American concessions to the Chinese instead of vice versa. The only option now is forming a bloc to counter and contain China's influence. We need to go to war with China in every way except for a shooting war.

I rather have Chinese influence... than American... and... I do repeat this, we don't want to be involved in your proxy games with the Chinese at all but again, our Prime Minister likes to remain relevant when he hasn't done well in our foreign policies at all but rather provoke.

Forming a 'bloc' doesn't help de-escalate the overall situation, it only adds more fuel.

[Easterica]

This does certainly appear to be heading towards a conflict. Just like in ww1 where a war occurred because of a complex system of alliances and a random assassination.

But it also looks like ww2 when Germany invaded sovereign lands because no one wanted to oppose them and fight a war… which started a war. Both of these and more are going on right now and this time we’ve got nukes.

I just wonder if the world is ready to fight yet… we don’t have a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 just yet, but it’s coming… either that or due to a lack of will to actually fight a war we could see a cold war and lunar bases/outposts/colonies.


Either way the future is bleak…

[The Great Land of Aquarius]

North Korea has lots of chemical and biological weapons and it also has nukes which make it hard. Hard to the point which the USA has to put some nukes in South Korea and Japan. (200 nukes needed, 100 for each nation.)

[Greatest States Of America]

The world cannot afford another war. WW3 will be devastating for everyone. Instead of confronting each other some problems could be solved by dialogue.

[Alcala-Cordel]

It finally begins. We need to begin a new Cold War against China. The West needs to make lowering Chinese power and countering Chinese influence a priority. I favor far more radical actions against the People's Republic of China, but this is indeed a very good start.

The Cold War might be glorified, but it fucking sucked. The last thing people need is paranoia with a chance of war.

Tbh I think attitudes like this are a bigger threat than China is.

[Accelsior]

We very much need dialogue and a mutual understanding of how beneficial it is if we were to co-operate by dropping the cold war mentality, and many other things.

[Punished UMN]

The politics of containment are circumstantial. Attempting to control the SOviet Union through economic means really only worked because Russia was willing to participate in the market - if it wasn't for a ridiculous level of corruption in high offices and decades of attempt at reforms, that kind of containment wouldn't have worked, and the Berlin Wall would probably still be standing.

Things could go very differently trying the same idea a second time. And it could really depend on what China's bloc ended up looking like, and THAT could depend on how uncomfortable Pacific Rim politics and economies got - it's definitely not hard to imagine Mexico being the new border to a South/Central Pacific Rim bloc, India siding with China, and Japan opting for the stability of the new bloc. And that would completely redraw the map.

Mexico is practically a failed state that is too close to the U.S. sphere of influence, India and China are mortal enemies, and Japan has no reason to side with China because they're geopolitical rivals. Furthermore, the USSR had to branch out it's economy because autarky is not a sustainable economic model.

You need to brush up on this shit a bit more my dude.

Have to disagree, the USSR was one of the few economies which was pretty successful as an autarky, it had virtually every natural resource in massive abundance because of its size, and had extremely limited trade. The Soviet Union's collapse was more due to internal political troubles than economic problems. The Soviet Union's economic 'crisis' in the late 1980's was that its economic growth had slowed down to around 1%. Virtually every capitalist country faces worse crises on the basis of a decade, the Soviet Union had this combined with a multitude of other socio-economic factors which encouraged its individual republics to lose cohesion with the central government in Moscow.

[Grave_n_idle]

Mexico is practically a failed state that is too close to the U.S. sphere of influence, India and China are mortal enemies, and Japan has no reason to side with China because they're geopolitical rivals. Furthermore, the USSR had to branch out it's economy because autarky is not a sustainable economic model.

You need to brush up on this shit a bit more my dude.

I said Mexico would be the border state with the new bloc. India and China basically disagree over borders - something I've already addressed - and are closer ideological allies than they are mortal enemies. Japan, I also already explained, moved MUCH closer to China back in 2018 due to our terrible trade policy and foreign policy.

And all this has already been addressed and explained, which makes me wonder why you think I'm the one that needs to "brush up on this shit".

[Picairn]

Vietnam nowadays actually falls squarely in the American bloc. The Chinese have invaded them multiple times since the Vietnam War, souring their relations.

Vietnam will stay neutral in this Cold War, unless they get invaded by China. Def no military bases or a formal military alliance, they can't afford to provoke the ire of Chinese leaders.

[The New California Republic]

Vietnam nowadays actually falls squarely in the American bloc. The Chinese have invaded them multiple times since the Vietnam War, souring their relations.

Vietnam will stay neutral in this Cold War, unless they get invaded by China. Def no military bases or a formal military alliance, they can't afford to provoke the ire of Chinese leaders.

Vietnam has been getting very pissed off with Chinese claims in the region, which directly challenge the areas that fall under Vietnam's jurisdiction under international law, so their neutrality is something we can't assume.

[Picairn]

Vietnam has been getting very pissed off with Chinese claims in the region, which directly challenge the areas that fall under Vietnam's jurisdiction under international law, so their neutrality is something we can't assume.

The leadership has made clear that they will continue to stay neutral up until now. It isn't an unreasonable fear, China has provoked and invaded Vietnam multiple times in the past when Vietnam chose to openly side with the USSR, and the consequences were quite enormous. Vietnam is a small country, it can't be sucked into a conventional war with a superpower that it will certainly lose.

Besides, the leadership doubts that the US can save it in a conventional war, given that America's far away and has a notorious history of abandoning its allies when it's convenient to do so.

[The New California Republic]

Vietnam has been getting very pissed off with Chinese claims in the region, which directly challenge the areas that fall under Vietnam's jurisdiction under international law, so their neutrality is something we can't assume.

The leadership has made clear that they will continue to stay neutral up until now. It isn't an unreasonable fear, China has provoked and invaded Vietnam multiple times in the past when Vietnam chose to openly side with the USSR, and the consequences were quite enormous. Vietnam is a small country, it can't be sucked into a conventional war with a superpower that it will certainly lose.

Besides, the leadership doubts that the US can save it in a conventional war, given that America's far away and has a notorious history of abandoning its allies when it's convenient to do so.

I think we can read it as "neutral with American characteristics" tbh...

[Senkaku]

Vietnam nowadays actually falls squarely in the American bloc. The Chinese have invaded them multiple times since the Vietnam War, souring their relations.

Vietnam will stay neutral in this Cold War, unless they get invaded by China. Def no military bases or a formal military alliance, they can't afford to provoke the ire of Chinese leaders.

Also we did reduce their partitioned country to cinders within living memory, that could have some slight influence on their proclivity to want to be useful American clients idk

[Grave_n_idle]

Vietnam will stay neutral in this Cold War, unless they get invaded by China. Def no military bases or a formal military alliance, they can't afford to provoke the ire of Chinese leaders.

Also we did reduce their partitioned country to cinders within living memory, that could have some slight influence on their proclivity to want to be useful American clients idk

There's a lot of industry in Vietnam dedicated to satisfying American importers, and that's been a big lever in relations with them over the last few years - almost ALL of the trade between the US and Vietnam is Vietnam exporting goods to the US - and that's bad for America in two ways. First - China is almost as big a market for Vietnamese goods as the US is and if trading across the Pacific suddenly becomes difficult or expensive, there are plenty of markets closer to home. Second - Since only about 1/7 of Vietnam's trade with the US is Vietnam importing American goods, local markets can also elastically expand to fill their import needs.

In other words, in terms of trade, while we're useful, we're also expendable.

And that's bad news given that aside from trade, our main legacy with Vietnam is trying to murder them.

[Picairn]

I think we can read it as "neutral with American characteristics" tbh...

More like "neutral with secret American sympathy". The leadership knows about Chinese aggression and the fact that popular opinion leans overwhelmingly towards the US, they just don't want Vietnam to be abandoned again by its so called "allies" like when the USSR reacted to the 1988 Chinese invasion of the Johnson South Reef with radio silence, even though it signed a military alliance with Vietnam in 1978. Basically, the Vietnamese leaders got a rude awakening: superpowers will abandon them when they are no longer the superpowers' priority.

Also we did reduce their partitioned country to cinders within living memory, that could have some slight influence on their proclivity to want to be useful American clients idk

Quite, and America's history of abandoning allies when it's politically convenient to be "anti-war" (South Vietnam, Afghanistan) doesn't paint the US as a helpful ally.

[The Holy Therns]

What isn't, these days?

[Constaniana]

Aside from Australia now being provided with American nuclear submarines I don't see what all the fuss is about. Three countries with long historic ties that already cooperate very closely on defence matters announce...they will be working closer on defence matters.

[Diarcesia]

Is the new French submarine thing related to the AUKUS?

btw the acronym is way too close to amogus

[Great Algerstonia]

De-Escalation will help China and hurt the US. If we try to de-escalate this situation, it will be American concessions to the Chinese instead of vice versa. The only option now is forming a bloc to counter and contain China's influence. We need to go to war with China in every way except for a shooting war.

I rather have Chinese influence... than American...

Why?

[Helliniki Katastasis]

De-Escalation will help China and hurt the US. If we try to de-escalate this situation, it will be American concessions to the Chinese instead of vice versa. The only option now is forming a bloc to counter and contain China's influence. We need to go to war with China in every way except for a shooting war.

I rather have Chinese influence... than American... and... I do repeat this, we don't want to be involved in your proxy games with the Chinese at all but again, our Prime Minister likes to remain relevant when he hasn't done well in our foreign policies at all but rather provoke.

Forming a 'bloc' doesn't help de-escalate the overall situation, it only adds more fuel.

You're a fucking idiot if you think China would help you. I wouldn't trade jabs but come on man, knock some sense into that wonderful God-given brain of yours.

[HISPIDA]

ww3? no

a new cold war? that's been happening for years