American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

[Alcala-Cordel]

Yup. 43 percent in and 70 percent for Newsom:)

let's be clear, Newsome is a fuckstick. he's only winning because Californians woke up and realized the alternative would be worse.

Pretty much. Newsom is a corporate puppet, but at least he's not pushing an evangelical agenda.

The recall is very pathetic

[Cannot think of a name]

I was gettin' some cigars today which inevitably means I am in contact with the Trumpiest of the Republicans because if I'm being honest, smoking cigars is for douchebags but addiction is addiction. They are certainly working themselves up to believe it's all stolen but even in a support circle where they were trading unfounded conspiracies they couldn't mount much enthusiasm because they live here and even when they try to tell themselves that their positions were majority opinions in the end...nah. California at the moment is not interested in what the Republicans are selling. It's not a closed state, we gave the world Reagan and...ugh...Rush Limbaugh (his local show before going national was my hometown). Just the current Republican Party? No sale.

And California didn't even give us them. Reagan's from my home state, and Limbaugh was just across the river in Cape Girardeau.

I'm not talking about where they shed their placenta, I'm talking about where they built their relevant political careers. Reagan was Governor of California before running for President, Limbaugh's show played in the central valley before going nationwide.

[North Washington Republic]

They wanted to try to sneak in Elder through a recall, using a turnout/enthusiasm gap to their advantage.

Now it looks like they want to use it to push the "rigged election" narrative some more. You know, the same narrative that led to this civilian/military confrontation that we're debating. These people make me sick.

I was gettin' some cigars today which inevitably means I am in contact with the Trumpiest of the Republicans because if I'm being honest, smoking cigars is for douchebags but addiction is addiction. They are certainly working themselves up to believe it's all stolen but even in a support circle where they were trading unfounded conspiracies they couldn't mount much enthusiasm because they live here and even when they try to tell themselves that their positions were majority opinions in the end...nah. California at the moment is not interested in what the Republicans are selling. It's not a closed state, we gave the world Reagan and...ugh...Rush Limbaugh (his local show before going national was my hometown). Just the current Republican Party? No sale.

The thing is that Republicans don’t realize when they nominate Trumpy candidates for offices that are not safe Republican wins, this motivates Democrats to vote also.It motivates both centrists and progressives

[Tarsonis]

They wanted to try to sneak in Elder through a recall, using a turnout/enthusiasm gap to their advantage.

Now it looks like they want to use it to push the "rigged election" narrative some more. You know, the same narrative that led to this civilian/military confrontation that we're debating. These people make me sick.

I was gettin' some cigars today which inevitably means I am in contact with the Trumpiest of the Republicans because if I'm being honest, smoking cigars is for douchebags but addiction is addiction. They are certainly working themselves up to believe it's all stolen but even in a support circle where they were trading unfounded conspiracies they couldn't mount much enthusiasm because they live here and even when they try to tell themselves that their positions were majority opinions in the end...nah. California at the moment is not interested in what the Republicans are selling. It's not a closed state, we gave the world Reagan and...ugh...Rush Limbaugh (his local show before going national was my hometown). Just the current Republican Party? No sale.

this is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Cigars are the shit, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Hell I was a hardline conservative 10 years ago, and I would describe my ideal cigars as "El Presidentes" er go, the kind I thought Castro would smoke.


Cigars are dope dude, now quit bitching and pair it with a nice scotch.

[Cannot think of a name]

>review the process for military action
>not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved
>"No matter what you are told,"

Seems like it was more than just missiles my guy, but literally any conceivable military action. That is to say, he de facto made himself the commander-in-chief for approximately 12 days. Soft coup.

When it comes to nuclear strikes specifically, the President is the one with the final say. While high-ranking military advisers are involved, their involvement is chiefly for the verification process.

And that should he a very sobering thought, when you realize that for 4 years in this country, the guy with final the authority to destroy the world, with no checks on that authority, was Donald Fucking Trump.

There were checks. They were in effect. And people apparently think that's a coup. Because...I don't know. People are addicted to outrage?

[Jeriga]

Well he supposedly called the Chinese government to inform them of his plan as well. That goes one step beyond the line, at least in my view.

It’s not like he called the Premier. He called his counterpart in the Chinese Military.

I mean I don't see how saying you'll give top secret information and break opsec to warn the enemy of an impending attack makes you a hero. Stopping the attack does. Not making it easier for the enemy to repulse the attack

[Proctopeo]

It doesn't matter how you cut it, the fact remains that Milley successfully usurped the entire structure of civilian control over the military which has been the bedrock of civilian-military relations since the dawn of the US as a country. For almost three weeks, the US government was not in control over its own military.

It’s rather fascinating how you guys are “OMG we had a coup!” rather then seeing why the General felt he needed to do it?

Some people? Subvert civilian control of the military? To cope???

Could it be the CandC is not really stable? They way he raged on and on about the loss. They way he encouraged the insurrectionists?

Cool motive, still extralegal action by a military official. Off a hunch that the President may have done something... which he didn't seem to have a substantial inclination to do, might I add.

Like it or not the General acted in what he thought was the best interests of the Nation.

Lots of people have done stupid shit under the presence of acting towards "the best interests of the nation".

Ask yourself his; has he cut off Biden or is the same thing in place? If it’s no? Sorry; not a coup.

Ain't no rule saying the end result of a coup can't then promptly hand control back over to the next guy. Though tbh we don't have full confidence that he actually did. It's not like Biden's mental health is much better...

>review the process for military action
>not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved
>"No matter what you are told,"

Seems like it was more than just missiles my guy, but literally any conceivable military action. That is to say, he de facto made himself the commander-in-chief for approximately 12 days. Soft coup.

When it comes to nuclear strikes specifically, the President is the one with the final say. While high-ranking military advisers are involved, their involvement is chiefly for the verification process.

And that should he a very sobering thought, when you realize that for 4 years in this country, the guy with final the authority to destroy the world, with no checks on that authority, was Donald Fucking Trump.

And in turn, a very drunkening thought, when you realize that Donald Trump had that power for four years and didn't do anything with it.

[Tarsonis]

It’s not like he called the Premier. He called his counterpart in the Chinese Military.

I mean I don't see how saying you'll give top secret information and break opsec to warn the enemy of an impending attack makes you a hero. Stopping the attack does. Not making it easier for the enemy to repulse the attack

Por que no los dos?

[Tarsonis]

It’s rather fascinating how you guys are “OMG we had a coup!” rather then seeing why the General felt he needed to do it?

Some people? Subvert civilian control of the military? To cope???

Could it be the CandC is not really stable? They way he raged on and on about the loss. They way he encouraged the insurrectionists?

Cool motive, still extralegal action by a military official. Off a hunch that the President may have done something... which he didn't seem to have a substantial inclination to do, might I add.

Like it or not the General acted in what he thought was the best interests of the Nation.

Lots of people have done stupid shit under the presence of acting towards "the best interests of the nation".

Ask yourself his; has he cut off Biden or is the same thing in place? If it’s no? Sorry; not a coup.

Ain't no rule saying the end result of a coup can't then promptly hand control back over to the next guy. Though tbh we don't have full confidence that he actually did. It's not like Biden's mental health is much better...

And that should he a very sobering thought, when you realize that for 4 years in this country, the guy with final the authority to destroy the world, with no checks on that authority, was Donald Fucking Trump.

And in turn, a very drunkening thought, when you realize that Donald Trump had that power for four years and didn't do anything with it.

That we know of. Remember this is the guy that wanted to nuke hurricanes.

[Cannot think of a name]

I was gettin' some cigars today which inevitably means I am in contact with the Trumpiest of the Republicans because if I'm being honest, smoking cigars is for douchebags but addiction is addiction. They are certainly working themselves up to believe it's all stolen but even in a support circle where they were trading unfounded conspiracies they couldn't mount much enthusiasm because they live here and even when they try to tell themselves that their positions were majority opinions in the end...nah. California at the moment is not interested in what the Republicans are selling. It's not a closed state, we gave the world Reagan and...ugh...Rush Limbaugh (his local show before going national was my hometown). Just the current Republican Party? No sale.

this is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Cigars are the shit, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Hell I was a hardline conservative 10 years ago, and I would describe my ideal cigars as "El Presidentes" er go, the kind I thought Castro would smoke.


Cigars are dope dude, now quit bitching and pair it with a nice scotch.

Lanceros for me because Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica and Hannibal from A-Team smoked them. Sort of throws a spanner into insisting that I wasn't influenced in smoking cigars.

[Jeriga]

I mean I don't see how saying you'll give top secret information and break opsec to warn the enemy of an impending attack makes you a hero. Stopping the attack does. Not making it easier for the enemy to repulse the attack

Por que no los dos?

Because warning the enemy is essentially becoming an informant for them-_-

[North Washington Republic]

NBC calls election for Newsom

[North Washington Republic]

I was gettin' some cigars today which inevitably means I am in contact with the Trumpiest of the Republicans because if I'm being honest, smoking cigars is for douchebags but addiction is addiction. They are certainly working themselves up to believe it's all stolen but even in a support circle where they were trading unfounded conspiracies they couldn't mount much enthusiasm because they live here and even when they try to tell themselves that their positions were majority opinions in the end...nah. California at the moment is not interested in what the Republicans are selling. It's not a closed state, we gave the world Reagan and...ugh...Rush Limbaugh (his local show before going national was my hometown). Just the current Republican Party? No sale.

this is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Cigars are the shit, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Hell I was a hardline conservative 10 years ago, and I would describe my ideal cigars as "El Presidentes" er go, the kind I thought Castro would smoke.


Cigars are dope dude, now quit bitching and pair it with a nice scotch.

I quit Tobacco entirely. I now only smoke medical cannabis.

[Jeriga]

NBC calls election for Newsom

No point not doing so. 60 percent in, 67 fir newsom

[San Lumen]

CNN projects Newsom will remain in office.

[Tarsonis]

Por que no los dos?

Because warning the enemy is essentially becoming an informant for them-_-

That's not necessarily a bad thing. In quite a few ways, it could be the most patriotic act one could do.

[The Lone Alliance]

And that should he a very sobering thought, when you realize that for 4 years in this country, the guy with final the authority to destroy the world, with no checks on that authority, was Donald Fucking Trump.

Yeah....
Nixon once started to order a nuclear strike on North Korea because he was drunk when he found out they shot down a plane, Reagan nearly caused World War 3 because he wouldn't shut up about how much he hated the Soviets (And he only shut up when he finally sat down and realized the true implications of nuclear war because apparently reading the manual on nuclear war was stupid), so it's not like there isn't a legacy.

[Jeriga]

Because warning the enemy is essentially becoming an informant for them-_-

That's not necessarily a bad thing. In quite a few ways, it could be the most patriotic act one could do.

You can judge that all you want. What he did is still legally out of line.

[Tarsonis]

this is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Cigars are the shit, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Hell I was a hardline conservative 10 years ago, and I would describe my ideal cigars as "El Presidentes" er go, the kind I thought Castro would smoke.


Cigars are dope dude, now quit bitching and pair it with a nice scotch.

Lanceros for me because Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica and Hannibal from A-Team smoked them. Sort of throws a spanner into insisting that I wasn't influenced in smoking cigars.

Col Potter: "Have a Cigar Radar."

Radar: "But sir aren't those habit forming?"

Potter: "Nonsense, I've smoked two a day for 50 years and never caught the habit."

[San Lumen]

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/202 ... sults-show

Justin Bibb, Kevin Kelley win Cleveland mayoral primary, head to General Election. Former Congressman Dennis Kucinich came in third place.

[The Black Forrest]

Yup. 43 percent in and 70 percent for Newsom:)

let's be clear, Newsome is a fuckstick. he's only winning because Californians woke up and realized the alternative would be worse.

Indeed. Newsom is hardly perfect. He has done things which could really annoy people.

As I said before I sent my illegal bamboo fibered ballot with Cyrillic writing. I need something meaty to recall him. Sorry but:

OMFG he ordered mask mandates and social distancing.
OMFG he ordered a lockdown.
OMFG he violated his own mask rules.

If we removed every politician for being a douche; government would be about three people.

[Cannot think of a name]

this is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Cigars are the shit, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Hell I was a hardline conservative 10 years ago, and I would describe my ideal cigars as "El Presidentes" er go, the kind I thought Castro would smoke.


Cigars are dope dude, now quit bitching and pair it with a nice scotch.

I quit Tobacco entirely. I now only smoke medical cannabis.

I'm working on it but when I get stressed out it's nice to have a moment to just go have a smoke knowing that for the most part no one will bother me because people hate the smell.

Just occasionally I have to overhear the most ridiculous political positions. I usually amuse myself by quietly fact checking them and looking up the crazy shit they're saying to see what the real story is.

[Tarsonis]

That's not necessarily a bad thing. In quite a few ways, it could be the most patriotic act one could do.

You can judge that all you want. What he did is still legally out of line.

But morally, it was the right thing to do.

[Alcala-Cordel]

NBC calls election for Newsom

Of course he did, now we wait for the "it was rigged" crowd to hear the news.

Fun times await

[Antipatros]

Well, it's not only Nazi Germany. There are more examples.

I'm not convinced that a Cold War gone hot would be preceded by formal declarations of war either.

Yeah, your other example wasn't really accurate and your third was...Soviet Russia. So...three for three.

He basically said that America would follow procedure in the use of our most powerful weapon. You guys keep pressing this like it's the worst thing in the world but it just sounds to me like the built in failsafes doing their job.

My examples are coming from WW2 because that was the last really large conflict. I don't want to belabor this but here's the full list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war#Declared_wars_since_1945

We could dig into these and try to find patterns. Democracies are more likely to declare war before an attack for sure.

We could also set this point aside and agree to disagree on it. It is a matter of opinion after all. We're speculating on whether or not there would be a declaration of war before a nuclear exchange between China and the US.