American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

[The Reformed American Republic]

Oh yeah totally.

Aside from the fact that it's not even slightly true, and I've never seen a social credit in my life.

Tbh your credit score is pretty much social credit

Yeah, but it doesn't go as far as it does in China. I can go on a rant on how our government and our economic system sucks (it does btw) but I will not have a lower credit score as a result.

[Senkaku]

That statement is literally long-established American policy lol

Oh yeah totally.

Aside from the fact that it's not even slightly true, and I've never seen a social credit in my life.

The One China Policy goes back decades, no one is getting mainland brownie points for just saying it

If you want to bicker about translations of the Shanghai communique that’s a different matter lol but saying “there’s only one China and Taiwan is a part of it” is literally word for word the American government’s position, there’s nothing inherently pro mainland about it

[Neanderthaland]

Oh yeah totally.

Aside from the fact that it's not even slightly true, and I've never seen a social credit in my life.

The One China Policy goes back decades, no one is getting mainland brownie points for just saying it

If you want to bicker about translations of the Shanghai communique that’s a different matter lol but saying “there’s only one China and Taiwan is a part of it” is literally word for word the American government’s position, there’s nothing inherently pro mainland about it

Sure, and "vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid" is a scientific fact.

But if you see someone bring it up as a talking point, you know who they are and why they're saying it.

[Senkaku]

The One China Policy goes back decades, no one is getting mainland brownie points for just saying it

If you want to bicker about translations of the Shanghai communique that’s a different matter lol but saying “there’s only one China and Taiwan is a part of it” is literally word for word the American government’s position, there’s nothing inherently pro mainland about it

Sure, and "vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid" is a scientific fact.

But if you see someone bring it up as a talking point, you know who they are and why they're saying it.

What I’m saying is that in this case you literally do not, the whole point of that phrase even existing is that it’s something ambiguous both sides can feel comfortable saying and agreeing on lmao

They could be saying it as a mainlander who wants to take the island, as a Taiwanese who wants peaceful unification, an American who wants to fully restore the ROC— you literally have no way of knowing, its meaning is ambiguous

[Postauthoritarian America]

And to be clear, if Taiwan and China mutually want to reunify peacefully at some point, I think that's fine.

If we don't want China to invade Taiwan, we should make it clear that we will respond.

Kindly point out to us the "strategic ambiguity" in this statement or any other US officials have made about Taiwan:

“It’s very important that no one take unilateral actions that change the status quo by force,” Blinken said in the interview, conducted on the sidelines of a meeting of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. “We need to see China stop these actions.”

Everyone (outside of a few Taipei hotheads) agrees Taiwan is a part of China. If Daddy Xi decides to send up the balloon and invade though there's little the rest of the world can do other than wring its hands like it did after Tsar Putin invaded the Crimea. Fortunately Xi is not about to do anything remotely like that as he knows as well as anyone else that an invasion would destroy the Taiwanese economic assets that would be the only reason for China to risk its soldiers' lives in such a harebrained scheme.

As the US's power and prestige continues to decline while it combats white supremacist authoritarian domestic terrorism at home China will slowly ratchet up the pressure on Taiwan and eventually reabsorb it as it has reabsorbed Hong Kong. In the meantime we and the rest of the world will keep asking them to back off when they get too anxious about it all.

[Postauthoritarian America]

Factually incorrect. Taiwan was part of a Chinese polity for most of it's history as an inhabited place.

No. It was independent and paid tribute to China. Under this logic Vladivostok and Mongolia should be apart of China

Give it a century or two.

[Senkaku]

No. It was independent and paid tribute to China. Under this logic Vladivostok and Mongolia should be apart of China

Give it a century or two.

In a century or two either we’re all going to be dead and all those places will be scavenger-haunted ruins, or the concept of nation-states conquering territory is going to sound like some bizarre Stone Age myth

And to be clear, if Taiwan and China mutually want to reunify peacefully at some point, I think that's fine.

If we don't want China to invade Taiwan, we should make it clear that we will respond.

Kindly point out to us the "strategic ambiguity" in this statement or any other US officials have made about Taiwan:

“It’s very important that no one take unilateral actions that change the status quo by force,” Blinken said in the interview, conducted on the sidelines of a meeting of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. “We need to see China stop these actions.”

Everyone (outside of a few Taipei hotheads) agrees Taiwan is a part of China. If Daddy Xi decides to send up the balloon and invade though there's little the rest of the world can do other than wring its hands like it did after Tsar Putin invaded the Crimea. Fortunately Xi is not about to do anything remotely like that as he knows as well as anyone else that an invasion would destroy the economic power that would be the only reason for China to risk its soldiers' lives in such a harebrained scheme.

As the US's power and prestige continues to decline while it combats white supremacist authoritarian domestic terrorism at home China will slowly ratchet up the pressure on Taiwan and eventually reabsorb it as it has reabsorbed Hong Kong. In the meantime we and the rest of the world will keep asking them to back off when they get too anxious about it all.

I think you’re underestimating domestic resistance to re-absorption in Taiwan, and they have a lot more tools to turn that sentiment into facts on the ground than Hong Kong democracy activists did. Eventually there’s going to be a crunch point where Beijing will need to put boots on the ground somehow.

[Thermodolia]

Tbh your credit score is pretty much social credit

Yeah, but it doesn't go as far as it does in China. I can go on a rant on how our government and our economic system sucks (it does btw) but I will not have a lower credit score as a result.

Yes it does. You can’t get shit without a credit check.

[Lord Dominator]

Worth noting on that front that the ruling party vaguely supports independence (one version of that being to argue they already are, and thus a declaration of such is unneeded).

[Senkaku]

Worth noting on that front that the ruling party vaguely supports independence (one version of that being to argue they already are, and thus a declaration of such is unneeded).

A separate thread is probably warranted for further discussion of the hellish linguistic contortion program that is the One China Policy lol

[Lord Dominator]

Worth noting on that front that the ruling party vaguely supports independence (one version of that being to argue they already are, and thus a declaration of such is unneeded).

A separate thread is probably warranted for further discussion of the hellish linguistic contortion program that is the One China Policy lol

Very true, I just don’t feel like making it myself

[Kowani]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Tensions over city government vaccine mandates boiled over this week as Chicago’s mayor and the city’s police union filed dueling lawsuits against one another in the final hours before all city employees were required to disclose their vaccination status or risk losing pay.

States and cities are increasingly requiring public sector employees to be vaccinated against Covid-19 or to submit to testing requirements. But enforcement within law enforcement agencies is proving particularly problematic.

In Chicago, city employees were required to disclose their vaccine status by Friday so the city could begin testing requirements for unvaccinated workers on Monday. But local Fraternal Order of Police President John Catanzara has encouraged officers not to do so, saying the city should have been required to negotiate with the union.

On Friday, Mayor Lori Lightfoot announced the city had filed a lawsuit against the FOP and Catanzara, alleging that he sought “to induce an insurrection” by encouraging officers not to disclose their vaccination status. Employees who fail to report their vaccination status by the deadline will be put on no pay status.

Catanzara has suggested that if the city enforces the mandate, police staffing could be reduced by half over the weekend.
In a complaint for injunctive relief that was filed in Cook County Circuit Court, the city said the FOP’s directive “a clear instruction and command to engage in an unlawful strike.” The police union is barred from striking under both its collective bargaining agreement and the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act.

Hours after Lightfoot’s announcement, the FOP countersued, alleging that the city did not properly negotiate with the union over the vaccine mandate.

Under the city’s mandate, all workers must be vaccinated by Oct. 15 or they will be subject to twice weekly testing requirements.

Police officers who decline to be vaccinated will undermine the public’s trust in the ability of the department to keep residents safe, Lightfoot said during a Friday press conference.

“First responders, police, fire, EMTS are literally in physical contact with residents every single day,” Lightfoot said. “Those residents have a right to expect that those officers are not going to get them sick. Those firefighters or paramedics are not going to get them sick.”

Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police has resisted the vaccine mandate from the start, and Catanzara issued his latest statement Friday telling members they are under no obligation to disclose their vaccination status.

The city’s complaint against the FOP asks the court to enjoin the union from engaging in any concerted effort to refuse to submit vaccination status and to block Catanzara from encouraging members to refuse to comply with the city’s vaccination status.

[Dreria]

Tbh your credit score is pretty much social credit

Yeah, but it doesn't go as far as it does in China. I can go on a rant on how our government and our economic system sucks (it does btw) but I will not have a lower credit score as a result.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/credit-score- ... 00431.html

[Relden]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

[Rusozak]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

You guys keep saying that like barbarian hordes sacked every major city in the country and burned it to the ground, yet as a denizen of one of those cities I have yet to see this destruction.

[Relden]

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

You guys keep saying that like barbarian hordes sacked every major city in the country and burned it to the ground, yet as a denizen of one of those cities I have yet to see this destruction.

Ah, you're right.

They just caused billions of dollars in damage, so it was basically nothing.

[Ifreann]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

That doesn't justify the police turning around and refusing to comply with laws they are supposedly sworn to enforce.

[Lord Dominator]

Yeah, but it doesn't go as far as it does in China. I can go on a rant on how our government and our economic system sucks (it does btw) but I will not have a lower credit score as a result.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/credit-score- ... 00431.html

Still not as bad as China, considering they base it on non-financial stuff - that thing sounds like adding more financial data that isn’t traditionally covered (that, and it sounds like there’s a lot more reward/punishment that goes on with their one).

[Relden]

That doesn't justify the police turning around and refusing to comply with laws they are supposedly sworn to enforce.

So now we're in favor of the law? Strange.

Oh, right; that's because the law targets people who don't want to take a vaccine, and not opportunistic rioters.

[Antipatros]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Tensions over city government vaccine mandates boiled over this week as Chicago’s mayor and the city’s police union filed dueling lawsuits against one another in the final hours before all city employees were required to disclose their vaccination status or risk losing pay.

States and cities are increasingly requiring public sector employees to be vaccinated against Covid-19 or to submit to testing requirements. But enforcement within law enforcement agencies is proving particularly problematic.

In Chicago, city employees were required to disclose their vaccine status by Friday so the city could begin testing requirements for unvaccinated workers on Monday. But local Fraternal Order of Police President John Catanzara has encouraged officers not to do so, saying the city should have been required to negotiate with the union.

On Friday, Mayor Lori Lightfoot announced the city had filed a lawsuit against the FOP and Catanzara, alleging that he sought “to induce an insurrection” by encouraging officers not to disclose their vaccination status. Employees who fail to report their vaccination status by the deadline will be put on no pay status.

Catanzara has suggested that if the city enforces the mandate, police staffing could be reduced by half over the weekend.
In a complaint for injunctive relief that was filed in Cook County Circuit Court, the city said the FOP’s directive “a clear instruction and command to engage in an unlawful strike.” The police union is barred from striking under both its collective bargaining agreement and the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act.

Hours after Lightfoot’s announcement, the FOP countersued, alleging that the city did not properly negotiate with the union over the vaccine mandate.

Under the city’s mandate, all workers must be vaccinated by Oct. 15 or they will be subject to twice weekly testing requirements.

Police officers who decline to be vaccinated will undermine the public’s trust in the ability of the department to keep residents safe, Lightfoot said during a Friday press conference.

“First responders, police, fire, EMTS are literally in physical contact with residents every single day,” Lightfoot said. “Those residents have a right to expect that those officers are not going to get them sick. Those firefighters or paramedics are not going to get them sick.”

Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police has resisted the vaccine mandate from the start, and Catanzara issued his latest statement Friday telling members they are under no obligation to disclose their vaccination status.

The city’s complaint against the FOP asks the court to enjoin the union from engaging in any concerted effort to refuse to submit vaccination status and to block Catanzara from encouraging members to refuse to comply with the city’s vaccination status.

Looking at his bio on Wikipedia:

Catanzara joined the Chicago Police Department in 1995.[2] In 2020, Catanzara was elected as the head of the Chicago Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). Cataranza has a long disciplinary record in the department.[3][4][5][6] Previously in 2017, Cataranza stated of Muslims: "Savages they all deserve a bullet."[7] Later he defended the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol by Trump supporters, stating that: "They’re individuals ... They get to do what they want."[8]

He was assigned as the school officer at Hubbard High School for several years where he coached the cross country and was involved with the school's Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps program.[2] In February 2021, Catanzara was suspended without pay from the Chicago Police Department for authoring a series of obscene and inflammatory social media posts, making false reports and being insubordinate or disrespectful to supervisors.[9][10][11] In August 2021, he was criticized by mayor Lori Lightfoot, the Anti-Defamation League, and the American Jewish Committee for his comments comparing vaccine mandates to The Holocaust.[12][13]

In October 2021, Catanzara urged union police officers to ignore the city's COVID vaccine reporting mandate, instructing them to file exemptions to receiving the vaccine shots and refuse reporting information into the city's vaccine portal.[14]

What a disgrace this guy is.

[Neanderthaland]

Meanwhile, Lawlessness in Chicago

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

Oh totally. Slashing tires. Shooting random civilians.

To think, we pay their salaries.

[Relden]

Oh totally. Slashing tires. Shooting random civilians.

To think, we pay their salaries.

It wouldn't surprise me if you genuinely believed that police were solely responsible for the billions of dollars worth of damage.

[Ifreann]

That doesn't justify the police turning around and refusing to comply with laws they are supposedly sworn to enforce.

So now we're in favor of the law? Strange.

Who's we? You're the one bringing up other instances of law breaking in response to cops refusing to disclose their vaccination status. You made the point, I'm responding to it.

Oh, right; that's because the law targets people who don't want to take a vaccine, and not opportunistic rioters.

It's not targetting people who don't want to take a vaccine. This isn't a vaccine mandate.

[Neanderthaland]

Oh totally. Slashing tires. Shooting random civilians.

To think, we pay their salaries.

It wouldn't surprise me if you genuinely believed that police were solely responsible for the billions of dollars worth of damage.

Of course it wouldn't. Because that would require the ability to perceive the other side in terms other than strawmen.

But which is more corrosive to a democracy? Riots in protest of police injustice and brutality, or the police demonstrating that they are every bit the monsters the protesters claim?

[Antipatros]

Lawlessness was when violent mobs ransacked cities throughout 2020.

That doesn't justify the police turning around and refusing to comply with laws they are supposedly sworn to enforce.

This is becoming an increasing problem in many American police departments. It's especially the case in places where there are elected sheriffs.

Professional discretion is part of policing, but police leadership picking and choosing what laws they enforce on political grounds (as if they have some veto power over the democratic process) is a subversion of our constitutional order.