American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

[Kanadorika]

Right wing conspiracies get even more insane. Apparently now if you are vaccinated, you are no longer human and don't have human rights anymore and are to be exterminated.

Read at your own risk. Straight from the horse's mouth
https://truth11.com/2021/07/21/in-the-us-the-supreme-court-has-ruled-that-vaccinated-people-worldwide-are-products-patented-goods-according-to-us-law-no-longer-human/

"Since 2013, all people vaccinated with GM-modified mRNAs are legally trans-human and legally identified as trans-human and do not enjoy any human or other rights of a state, and this applies worldwide"

I wouldn't trust that site.

The site is absolutely bullshit. The problem is people believe it.

[The Black Forrest]

It wouldn't matter if they were. I'm not defending Nazism nor saying anti-fascism is "outrage," but rather telling you that that image is. It's a stupid mockery of the left by falsely comparing you (and people like me as well) to Hitler. Your family's heroics does not make your unwillingness to grasp that distinction correct.

Originally; I had a much longer response. I somehow lost it or closed it.

The problem is trying to explain it as "it's not that bad" doesn't really work with offensive imagery.

People do find the image has hateful. Remember Townsend when she used it, was challenged by the ADL and she told them they needed to learn their history.

“(Townsend) should delete this outrageous and offensive tweet,” the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League wrote on Twitter. “There is never a valid time to share this flag which represents oppression and genocide for so many. Comparing health mandates to Nazism is highly insensitive and escalates tensions around efforts to fight #COVID19.”

Townsend rebuked the 108-year-old Jewish organization. “Learn your history,” she retorted.

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/13/kel ... r-history/

Of course there was the protest at the Utah governor's mansion (the link has the flag).

"We as Americans, regard Nazi symbols as signifiers of the worst hatred, racism and crimes against humanity the world has ever known," the United Jewish Federation of Utah said Monday in a news release. "We have in our community survivors, children of survivors, and brave liberators of the camps where these symbols flourished. The use of such symbols legitimize antisemitism and points to a growing lack of education amongst our citizens of the horrors perpetuated by hate and racism."

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/10/4/ ... -cox-covid

Did these people over react?

Suggesting people shouldn't be offended and not fight back because it will give the right more ammunition against the left is silly.

They will find reasons in anything. That is what hateful people do.

[Antipatros]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

[Diahon]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

i feel cursed knowing that bit about the khazars

[The Black Forrest]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

Oh oh. They know you are onto them.

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-edit-

Ok. Now it works.

[The Reformed American Republic]

It wouldn't matter if they were. I'm not defending Nazism nor saying anti-fascism is "outrage," but rather telling you that that image is. It's a stupid mockery of the left by falsely comparing you (and people like me as well) to Hitler. Your family's heroics does not make your unwillingness to grasp that distinction correct.

Originally; I had a much longer response. I somehow lost it or closed it.

The problem is trying to explain it as "it's not that bad" doesn't really work with offensive imagery.

People do find the image has hateful. Remember Townsend when she used it, was challenged by the ADL and she told them they needed to learn their history.

“(Townsend) should delete this outrageous and offensive tweet,” the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League wrote on Twitter. “There is never a valid time to share this flag which represents oppression and genocide for so many. Comparing health mandates to Nazism is highly insensitive and escalates tensions around efforts to fight #COVID19.”

Townsend rebuked the 108-year-old Jewish organization. “Learn your history,” she retorted.

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/13/kel ... r-history/

Of course there was the protest at the Utah governor's mansion (the link has the flag).

"We as Americans, regard Nazi symbols as signifiers of the worst hatred, racism and crimes against humanity the world has ever known," the United Jewish Federation of Utah said Monday in a news release. "We have in our community survivors, children of survivors, and brave liberators of the camps where these symbols flourished. The use of such symbols legitimize antisemitism and points to a growing lack of education amongst our citizens of the horrors perpetuated by hate and racism."

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/10/4/ ... -cox-covid

Did these people over react?

Suggesting people shouldn't be offended and not fight back because it will give the right more ammunition against the left is silly.

They will find reasons in anything. That is what hateful people do.

I'm sure you can find some Jews who would be offended by it. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't mean they aren't ignoring intent.

Not only that, but the ADL tends to go after criticism of Israel as well, calling it "New Antisemitism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defa ... sm_concept

https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/a ... -campaigns (Them attacking BDS)

Just because someone is Jewish does not mean their analysis here is correct. This is an Appeal to Authority.

[Spirit of Hope]

Rather obviously something can be a logical fallacy and still be racist/antisemitic/sexist/etc. Bigots aren't generally known for applying logic to their beliefs.

Trivializing the Holocaust and Nazi German atrocities is an antisemitic talking point. Comparing vaccine mandates to the above is trivializing them.

[The Black Forrest]

Originally; I had a much longer response. I somehow lost it or closed it.

The problem is trying to explain it as "it's not that bad" doesn't really work with offensive imagery.

People do find the image has hateful. Remember Townsend when she used it, was challenged by the ADL and she told them they needed to learn their history.

“(Townsend) should delete this outrageous and offensive tweet,” the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League wrote on Twitter. “There is never a valid time to share this flag which represents oppression and genocide for so many. Comparing health mandates to Nazism is highly insensitive and escalates tensions around efforts to fight #COVID19.”

Townsend rebuked the 108-year-old Jewish organization. “Learn your history,” she retorted.

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/13/kel ... r-history/

Of course there was the protest at the Utah governor's mansion (the link has the flag).

"We as Americans, regard Nazi symbols as signifiers of the worst hatred, racism and crimes against humanity the world has ever known," the United Jewish Federation of Utah said Monday in a news release. "We have in our community survivors, children of survivors, and brave liberators of the camps where these symbols flourished. The use of such symbols legitimize antisemitism and points to a growing lack of education amongst our citizens of the horrors perpetuated by hate and racism."

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/10/4/ ... -cox-covid

Did these people over react?

Suggesting people shouldn't be offended and not fight back because it will give the right more ammunition against the left is silly.

They will find reasons in anything. That is what hateful people do.

I'm sure you can find some Jews who would be offended by it. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't mean they aren't ignoring intent.

Not only that, but the ADL tends to go after criticism of Israel as well, calling it "New Antisemitism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defa ... sm_concept

https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/a ... -campaigns (Them attacking BDS)

Just because someone is Jewish does not mean their analysis here is correct. This is an Appeal to Authority.

I am not seeing how their views over Israel dismisses the offense at the use of Nazi imagery.

You did see the second quote mentions the people connected to events from the time that used that imagery. Even I have an indirect connection. My granddad and his experiences. I even have a great-uncle who was involved with the liberation of two camps. They like the Jewish people affected by those events passed on their experiences.

I guess they overreacted eh? Don't understand eh?

I don't know what to tell you if you can't understand why these people find the use offensive and the use really only adds to the problems.

[Kanadorika]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

I joined one of those "free speech" social media apps to see what goes on there. I knew the far right was violent, but dear god it was worse than I thought. People openly calling for the extermination of leftists and gays and such. That "truth11" is a favorite there.

Perhaps most worryingly is these people see themselves as regular Americans. They don't identify as Nazis or fascists. They see themselves as patriots and that it is their duty to genocide their way to a better America. These people aren't just an irrelevant minority in society anymore.

The FBI would have a field day on the app, assuming they were actually useful.

Sure it looks like incoherent rambling, but I'm disturbed by how easy it is to find this stuff on an app available for everyone.

[Antipatros]

Originally; I had a much longer response. I somehow lost it or closed it.

The problem is trying to explain it as "it's not that bad" doesn't really work with offensive imagery.

People do find the image has hateful. Remember Townsend when she used it, was challenged by the ADL and she told them they needed to learn their history.

“(Townsend) should delete this outrageous and offensive tweet,” the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League wrote on Twitter. “There is never a valid time to share this flag which represents oppression and genocide for so many. Comparing health mandates to Nazism is highly insensitive and escalates tensions around efforts to fight #COVID19.”

Townsend rebuked the 108-year-old Jewish organization. “Learn your history,” she retorted.

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/13/kel ... r-history/

Of course there was the protest at the Utah governor's mansion (the link has the flag).

"We as Americans, regard Nazi symbols as signifiers of the worst hatred, racism and crimes against humanity the world has ever known," the United Jewish Federation of Utah said Monday in a news release. "We have in our community survivors, children of survivors, and brave liberators of the camps where these symbols flourished. The use of such symbols legitimize antisemitism and points to a growing lack of education amongst our citizens of the horrors perpetuated by hate and racism."

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/10/4/ ... -cox-covid

Did these people over react?

Suggesting people shouldn't be offended and not fight back because it will give the right more ammunition against the left is silly.

They will find reasons in anything. That is what hateful people do.

I'm sure you can find some Jews who would be offended by it. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't mean they aren't ignoring intent.

Not only that, but the ADL tends to go after criticism of Israel as well, calling it "New Antisemitism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defa ... sm_concept

https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/a ... -campaigns (Them attacking BDS)

Just because someone is Jewish does not mean their analysis here is correct. This is an Appeal to Authority.

I think it's okay to be offended. Inappropriate comparisons do minimize the Holocaust, even if they are commonly thrown around in political discourse.

That being said, there is a difference between making an inappropriate Holocaust comparison and saying something that is hateful towards Jewish people.

[Vassenor]

So we’re going full on THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE right now?

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't think comparing vaccine mandates to Nazism is necessarily ntisemitic, but it is trivialities what the Nazis did and comparing it to something that isn't even negative. Comparing themselves to persecuted Jews is just very pathetic and in bad taste.

[Diahon]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

I joined one of those "free speech" social media apps to see what goes on there. I knew the far right was violent, but dear god it was worse than I thought. People openly calling for the extermination of leftists and gays and such. That "truth11" is a favorite there.

Perhaps most worryingly is these people see themselves as regular Americans. They don't identify as Nazis or fascists. They see themselves as patriots and that it is their duty to genocide their way to a better America. These people aren't just an irrelevant minority in society anymore.

The FBI would have a field day on the app, assuming they were actually useful.

Sure it looks like incoherent rambling, but I'm disturbed by how easy it is to find this stuff on an app available for everyone.

neither image nor link work

[Neutraligon]

I'm sure you can find some Jews who would be offended by it. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't mean they aren't ignoring intent.

Not only that, but the ADL tends to go after criticism of Israel as well, calling it "New Antisemitism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defa ... sm_concept

https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/a ... -campaigns (Them attacking BDS)

Just because someone is Jewish does not mean their analysis here is correct. This is an Appeal to Authority.

I am not seeing how their views over Israel dismisses the offense at the use of Nazi imagery.

You did see the second quote mentions the people connected to events from the time that used that imagery. Even I have an indirect connection. My granddad and his experiences. I even have a great-uncle who was involved with the liberation of two camps. They like the Jewish people affected by those events passed on their experiences.

I guess they overreacted eh? Don't understand eh?

I don't know what to tell you if you can't understand why these people find the use offensive and the use really only adds to the problems.

I have no idea where this poster gets off saying things like Jews pissed off about this are just wrong because...something something something Israel. My grandparents were alive during the Holocaust and were lucky to escape just before the worst of it began. You know who did not, about half of my family. To have something as trivial as a vaccine turned into holocaust equivalent is is about as disgusting as comparing actual war-related trauma to...getting a booboo while roller blading. What Jews are pissed off about is the trivializing of what was done to the Holocaust. It is a form of anti-semitism because it compares actual real-world torture and murder to...getting a shot.

And considering the type of people who are doing it? You know the ones who are also Jews are the evil world leader types...yeah there is nothing but anti-semitism in this.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210301000000*/https://truth11.com/

Looks like these guys have been turning out insane shit for a while.

It kinda looks like they went MAGA. Before that, Trump was a "Rothschild slave" and "slave to the Khazarian mafia".

I joined one of those "free speech" social media apps to see what goes on there. I knew the far right was violent, but dear god it was worse than I thought. People openly calling for the extermination of leftists and gays and such. That "truth11" is a favorite there.

Perhaps most worryingly is these people see themselves as regular Americans. They don't identify as Nazis or fascists. They see themselves as patriots and that it is their duty to genocide their way to a better America. These people aren't just an irrelevant minority in society anymore.

The FBI would have a field day on the app, assuming they were actually useful.

Sure it looks like incoherent rambling, but I'm disturbed by how easy it is to find this stuff on an app available for everyone.

Yeah except nationalism against the "outsider" who is destroying their country was one of the hooks that brought Nazis to power. I can tell you watching all this happen as a Jew is scary. I am sure watching it happen as a homosexual, black or Latino is also scary. I already know some people who are planning to leave because the fact is...we have seen this before, and it does not end well.

[Diahon]

there are different kinds of trivialization, guys

[Neutraligon]

there are different kinds of trivialization, guys

Yes, and the one's trivializing the holocaust around vaccine mandates are both dangerous and anti-semitic (among other antis).

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't think comparing vaccine mandates to Nazism is necessarily ntisemitic, but it is trivialities what the Nazis did and comparing it to something that isn't even negative. Comparing themselves to persecuted Jews is just very pathetic and in bad taste.

On second thought, the harm trivialization causes is antisemitic in and of itself.

[Kanadorika]

there are different kinds of trivialization, guys

To be honest, the greatest trivialization involves the slavs. Slavs (specifically Russians and other Soviet slavs) horrendously suffered more than any other people in the war. By all means we should recognize what happened to the Jews, but I feel like the deaths of Russians is almost always overlooked. Estimates vary, but at least 13 million civilians alone died in the war. It's something that really should get more attention.

[Antipatros]

I'm being genuine when I ask this: When is making a comparison to the Holocaust or Nazism acceptable?

Schwarzenegger made a comparison between January 6th and the Kristallnacht for example -- was that appropriate, was that in in poor taste, or did that even cross the line into antisemitism?

I'm even guilty of this. Earlier in the thread, I made a comparison between the way the Nazis glorified the death of Horst Wessel and how Trump is trying to turn Ashli Babbitt into a kind of propaganda martyr. Was that antisemitic?

I think it depends on your intent. Are you making a comparison because you want to portray yourself as a victim, or are you making a comparison because you want to engage in something like Holocaust denial?

[HISPIDA]

ISchwarzenegger made a comparison between January 6th and the Kristallnacht for example -- was that appropriate, was that in in poor taste, or did that even cross the line into antisemitism?

antisemetic? no
poor taste? kinda
wrong? yeah
jan 6. and kristallnacht were very different. imo a more apt comparison would be the beer hall putsch. they were both attempted coups, both coup leaders got lenient (or in trump's case, no) sentences, and their popularity exploded after them

I'm even guilty of this. Earlier in the thread, I made a comparison between the way the Nazis glorified the death of Horst Wessel and how Trump is trying to turn Ashli Babbitt into a kind of propaganda martyr. Was that antisemitic?

i'd say it's rather apt tbh

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm sure you can find some Jews who would be offended by it. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't mean they aren't ignoring intent.

Not only that, but the ADL tends to go after criticism of Israel as well, calling it "New Antisemitism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defa ... sm_concept

https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/a ... -campaigns (Them attacking BDS)

Just because someone is Jewish does not mean their analysis here is correct. This is an Appeal to Authority.

I think it's okay to be offended. Inappropriate comparisons do minimize the Holocaust, even if they are commonly thrown around in political discourse.

That being said, there is a difference between making an inappropriate Holocaust comparison and saying something that is hateful towards Jewish people.

I don't care if they're "offended," but rather saying their offense does not mean it has an identical meaning with an unironic antisemitic image. We're actually in agreement here.

[The Black Forrest]

there are different kinds of trivialization, guys

To be honest, the greatest trivialization involves the slavs. Slavs (specifically Russians and other Soviet slavs) horrendously suffered more than any other people in the war. By all means we should recognize what happened to the Jews, but I feel like the deaths of Russians is almost always overlooked. Estimates vary, but at least 13 million civilians alone died in the war. It's something that really should get more attention.

Hmmmm? I think it's more an issue of education then an effort to trivialize. Look at the Battle of Bagration. Only people who have a real interest in WW2 know of it. Many would blink at the amount of divisions involved.

It would be a great undertaking to write a definitive book on the Soviet war in general.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Look at the Battle of Bagration. Only people who have a real interest in WW2 know of it. Many would blink at the amount of divisions involved.

Many would blink at the sheer amount of German units, men and equipment that simply vanished into Siberian gulags post-Bagration... but I think we're straying a bit from the topic...

[The Black Forrest]

I think it's okay to be offended. Inappropriate comparisons do minimize the Holocaust, even if they are commonly thrown around in political discourse.

That being said, there is a difference between making an inappropriate Holocaust comparison and saying something that is hateful towards Jewish people.

I don't care if they're "offended," but rather saying their offense does not mean it has an identical meaning with an unironic antisemitic image. We're actually in agreement here.

Hmmm. 'I don't care if they're "offended,"' that explains a few things.

"but rather saying their offense does not mean it has an identical meaning with an unironic antisemitic image."

Like I said. You don't understand and I don't know what to say.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I am not seeing how their views over Israel dismisses the offense at the use of Nazi imagery.

You did see the second quote mentions the people connected to events from the time that used that imagery. Even I have an indirect connection. My granddad and his experiences. I even have a great-uncle who was involved with the liberation of two camps. They like the Jewish people affected by those events passed on their experiences.

I guess they overreacted eh? Don't understand eh?

I don't know what to tell you if you can't understand why these people find the use offensive and the use really only adds to the problems.

I have no idea where this poster gets off saying things like Jews pissed off about this are just wrong because...something something something Israel. My grandparents were alive during the Holocaust and were lucky to escape just before the worst of it began. You know who did not, about half of my family. To have something as trivial as a vaccine turned into holocaust equivalent is is about as disgusting as comparing actual war-related trauma to...getting a booboo while roller blading. What Jews are pissed off about is the trivializing of what was done to the Holocaust. It is a form of anti-semitism because it compares actual real-world torture and murder to...getting a shot.

And considering the type of people who are doing it? You know the ones who are also Jews are the evil world leader types...yeah there is nothing but anti-semitism in this.

I get off on the fact that the image is hypodermic needles arranged in swastika which is clearly an attempt to mock the vaccine and those promoting it rather than unironically promote Nazism. That's where I get off on this.

And no, it wasn't a post that said Jewish people are inherently wrong, but rather I'm not inherently wrong just because you can cite examples of Jews disagreeing with me, or because you disagree with me. I already said it was a stupid thing for the right to say. I'm just saying there's a difference between a ridiculous persecution complex on the right's part and the atrocities of the Nazis being condoned and promoted. One's being an actual genocidal Nazi and one is being delusional with a persecution complex.

Plus, I know the people doing this. Most of them are extremely pro-Israel to the point of extremism. While I have no love for the anti-democratic Trumpians, not all of them agree with the phrase "Six million is not enough" or other outright Nazi views.

I'm sorry for what your family had to go through, but what I'm saying isn't some immoral position.