NationStates

Rusozak wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Maybe, but the point isn't to promote antisemitism, but rather convey their own deluded alternative to reality. It can be offensive, but it should not be considered anywhere on par with an unironic swastika.

Edit:
It's mostly just idiotic and cringy, not so much bigoted, which was the point I was making. I obviously do not think their struggle is on par with Nazi death camp victims.

Well it doesn't help that there's a lot of overlap between antivaxxers and the far right Trumpers, which often includes antisemitism. How much do you want to bet an antivaxxer that agrees with the message of that poster has blamed something on "the jews" at one point or another?

If they wanted to promote that claim, wouldn't that be a Star of David made out of injection needles or something along those lines?

that is explicitly not the aim of that poster

they're casting vaccine purveyors as nazis and themselves as jews

whether or not they're also bigots is irrelevant to that, for that isn't what is shown

Diahon wrote:that is explicitly not the aim of that poster

they're casting vaccine purveyors as nazis and themselves as jews

whether or not they're also bigots is irrelevant to that, for that isn't what is shown

Thank you. That's what I was saying. It's a persecution complex, not a promotion of antisemitism. Context is key people.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:If one compares vaccinations to the deliberate ferrying of people in cattle-cars to be worked to death or gassed then one is no better tan a rabid antisemite. Change my mind.

Love the absolute outrage of some people are having rn.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:If one compares vaccinations to the deliberate ferrying of people in cattle-cars to be worked to death or gassed then one is no better tan a rabid antisemite. Change my mind.

Love the absolute outrage of some people are having rn.

Whether one is "better" is irrelevant. I'm just saying what it actually is.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:If one compares vaccinations to the deliberate ferrying of people in cattle-cars to be worked to death or gassed then one is no better tan a rabid antisemite. Change my mind.

Love the absolute outrage of some people are having rn.

trivialization of the suffering of those in actual concentration camps, yes, but that is what people are feeling -- by not being free to do as they wish, they're being marginalized, and they can then draw comparisons

and to an extent that tracks, except i trust that none of us want them to die off by their own enthrallment

now, as for the likes of trump, that's another story

Kowani wrote:This is not anti-semitic, according to Georgia Senate Republican candidate Herschel Walker

(Image)

Walker is just sad. He’s a major hypocrite after his wife was found to have committed voter fraud but the investigation was dropped so he’s corrupt too. The guy also is just running on the glory days of the 80s which might gain him some votes but realistically I don’t see him winning.

Especially not with his mental health issues

Diahon wrote:

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Love the absolute outrage of some people are having rn.

trivialization, yes, but that what people are feeling -- by not being free to do as they wish, they're being marginalized, and they can then draw comparisons

and to an extent that tracks, except i trust that none of us want them to die off by their own enthrallment

now, as for the likes of trump, that's another story

Also, interpreting what is being conveyed is key to actually refuting it. Pretending to be morally outraged when not reading through the lines does not refute the false equivalency, but just gives the right more ammo to mock the left with.

People trivialize horrendous events all the time whether through dumb comparisons or through shitty jokes. That doesn't make them "anti" whatever especially if the shitty comparison is trying to push how bad something is by comparing it to something bad that happened. This is just American progressives feeling like only their moral framework is legitimate and trying to hound people using the same dumb comparisons and tactics they use as illegitimate and as heretics lmao.

Thermodolia wrote:

Kowani wrote:This is not anti-semitic, according to Georgia Senate Republican candidate Herschel Walker

(Image)

Walker is just sad. He’s a major hypocrite after his wife was found to have committed voter fraud but the investigation was dropped so he’s corrupt too. The guy also is just running on the glory days of the 80s which might gain him some votes but realistically I don’t see him winning.

Especially not with his mental health issues

It's pathetic for Republicans to claim their opponents are Nazis. It was cringy in '08 and it is cringy now.

refutation is passe, now

antivaxxers have their own resources and their own logic to draw on -- vaccine resistance of this sort isn't something that can be handled by persuasion or rationality alone

hell, i'd say the preoccupation with refutation is a waste of resources better funnelled towards compliance at all nonlethal costs

Diahon wrote:refutation is passe, now

antivaxxers have their own resources and their own logic to draw on -- vaccine resistance of this sort isn't something that can be handled by persuasion or rationality alone

hell, i'd say the preoccupation with refutation is a waste of resources better funnelled towards compliance at all nonlethal costs

Antivaxxers are living proof of cognitive dissonance.

Vlad Tepes Stan Account wrote:People trivialize horrendous events all the time whether through dumb comparisons or through shitty jokes. That doesn't make them "anti" whatever especially if the shitty comparison is trying to push how bad something is by comparing it to something bad that happened. This is just American progressives feeling like only their moral framework is legitimate and trying to hound people using the same dumb comparisons and tactics they use as illegitimate and as heretics lmao.

oh, walker ain't encouraging antivaxxers to go on and catch the (i still can't believe this is an actual twitter hashtag) #FreedomFlu?

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Diahon wrote:trivialization, yes, but that what people are feeling -- by not being free to do as they wish, they're being marginalized, and they can then draw comparisons

and to an extent that tracks, except i trust that none of us want them to die off by their own enthrallment

now, as for the likes of trump, that's another story

Also, interpreting what is being conveyed is key to actually refuting it. Pretending to be morally outraged when not reading through the lines does not refute the false equivalency, but just gives the right more ammo to mock the left with.

Outrage? Question: was your family affected by the Nazis?

I'm gonna have to side with Reformed American Republic on this one.

Blatant antisemitism would be something like saying that the globalist Jewish elite wants to sterilize whites with vaccines.

Diahon wrote:refutation is passe, now

antivaxxers have their own resources and their own logic to draw on -- vaccine resistance of this sort isn't something that can be handled by persuasion or rationality alone

hell, i'd say the preoccupation with refutation is a waste of resources better funnelled towards compliance at all nonlethal costs

Even when just mocking a stupid argument - which is something I like to do more than refuting them - I still value getting it right.

The Black Forrest wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Also, interpreting what is being conveyed is key to actually refuting it. Pretending to be morally outraged when not reading through the lines does not refute the false equivalency, but just gives the right more ammo to mock the left with.

Outrage? Question: was your family affected by the Nazis?

It wouldn't matter if they were. I'm not defending Nazism nor saying anti-fascism is "outrage," but rather telling you that that image is. It's a stupid mockery of the left by falsely comparing you (and people like me as well) to Hitler. Your family's heroics does not make your unwillingness to grasp that distinction correct.

Antipatros wrote:I'm gonna have to side with Reformed American Republic on this one.

Blatant antisemitism would be something like saying that the globalist Jewish elite wants to sterilize whites with vaccines.

And as they say in the old country, “if it’s not blatant, it’s not happening”

Senkaku wrote:

Antipatros wrote:I'm gonna have to side with Reformed American Republic on this one.

Blatant antisemitism would be something like saying that the globalist Jewish elite wants to sterilize whites with vaccines.

And as they say in the old country, “if it’s not blatant, it’s not happening”

Not really. I can point out subtle antisemitism, like many of the George Soros memes, and while it is concerning, it's different than this.

This image is similar to the comparisons to Obama to Hitler when he was elected in 2008. Not a declaration of antisemitism but a showing of profound ignorance.

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Senkaku wrote:Antivaxxers drawing Holocaust comparisons to their own struggle is considered anti-Semitic in the sense of trivializing the deaths of millions of Jews, not in the sense that it’s directly caricaturing them— like how you could imagine a Black person might take offense if I compared my having to work a desk job I didn’t really like to the Atlantic slave trade, or an Indian might be sort of peeved if I compared having to skip lunch for a meeting one day to the Bengal famine

Maybe, but the point isn't to promote antisemitism, but rather convey their own deluded alternative to reality. It can be offensive, but it should not be considered anywhere on par with an unironic swastika.

Edit:

Senkaku wrote:if you’d prefer you can call it anti-Roma or anti-Slavic or ableist or homophobic or whatever but like… however you slice it, pretty cringe to actually make that and think you’re doing something

It's mostly just idiotic and cringy, not so much bigoted, which was the point I was making. I obviously do not think their struggle is on par with Nazi death camp victims.

I think the fact that antivax types have repeatedly made direct comparisons between being unvaccinated and being forced to wear the star, or the vaccination program and the Nazi regime, it’s not crazy for people to be irritated about this above the level they would be for “normal” right-wing cringe posts, you know? Like why do you need to spend a couple pages saying “um, actually, you can’t call it that”— it’s notthe most anti-Semitic piece of propaganda the American right has produced lately, but it’s definitely not the least; it’s not like there’s zero basis to call it that. I understand the centrist impulse is hard to control but like… I don’t think spending more time correcting liberal/leftist phrasing than denouncing rightist hackery is even fun for you, and I promise it’s not obligatory

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Senkaku wrote:And as they say in the old country, “if it’s not blatant, it’s not happening”

Not really. I can point out subtle antisemitism, like many of the George Soros memes, and while it is concerning, it's different than this.

This image is similar to the comparisons to Obama to Hitler when he was elected in 2008. Not a declaration of antisemitism but a showing of profound ignorance.

At what point does there stop being a difference between “just” being (publicly and loudly) “profoundly ignorant” about the Nazi regime, and being anti-Semitic? Why do you feel the need to rationalize and downplay the motives of some propagandist? Their work isn’t any nobler just because the rest of us are having a hard time being able to tell the subtle and important distinctions between their delusion, their ignorance, and their spite. They’re saying vaccines are as bad as Nazism; if you were talking in person to a Jew would you be this uptight about policing their anger and the wording of their criticisms of the content?

Senkaku wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Not really. I can point out subtle antisemitism, like many of the George Soros memes, and while it is concerning, it's different than this.

This image is similar to the comparisons to Obama to Hitler when he was elected in 2008. Not a declaration of antisemitism but a showing of profound ignorance.

At what point does there stop being a difference between “just” being (publicly and loudly) “profoundly ignorant” about the Nazi regime, and being anti-Semitic? Why do you feel the need to rationalize and downplay the motives of some propagandist? Their work isn’t any nobler just because the rest of us are having a hard time being able to tell the subtle and important distinctions between their delusion, their ignorance, and their spite.

I'm not downplaying nor "rationalizing" anything, but rather telling you what said propagandist was going for.

Senkaku wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Maybe, but the point isn't to promote antisemitism, but rather convey their own deluded alternative to reality. It can be offensive, but it should not be considered anywhere on par with an unironic swastika.

Edit:
It's mostly just idiotic and cringy, not so much bigoted, which was the point I was making. I obviously do not think their struggle is on par with Nazi death camp victims.

I think the fact that antivax types have repeatedly made direct comparisons between being unvaccinated and being forced to wear the star, or the vaccination program and the Nazi regime, it’s not crazy for people to be irritated about this above the level they would be for “normal” right-wing cringe posts, you know? Like why do you need to spend a couple pages saying “um, actually, you can’t call it that”— it’s notthe most anti-Semitic piece of propaganda the American right has produced lately, but it’s definitely not the least; it’s not like there’s zero basis to call it that. I understand the centrist impulse is hard to control but like… I don’t think spending more time correcting liberal/leftist phrasing than denouncing rightist hackery is even fun for you, and I promise it’s not obligatory

Are you kidding me? Most of my posts here involve condemning the Republicans and I don't have a centrist impulse, because I'm not a centrist, or at least not amongst the "Enlightened Centrists" you're thinking of in American politics. I don't think the ideal candidate is a "moderate" Republican or a Clinton.

This is one of the few posts I've made when I criticized phrasing on the part of the left compared to the numerous criticisms I made of the right.

Right wing conspiracies get even more insane. Apparently now if you are vaccinated, you are no longer human and don't have human rights anymore and are to be exterminated.

Read at your own risk. Straight from the horse's mouth
https://truth11.com/2021/07/21/in-the-us-the-supreme-court-has-ruled-that-vaccinated-people-worldwide-are-products-patented-goods-according-to-us-law-no-longer-human/

"Since 2013, all people vaccinated with GM-modified mRNAs are legally trans-human and legally identified as trans-human and do not enjoy any human or other rights of a state, and this applies worldwide"

Senkaku wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Not really. I can point out subtle antisemitism, like many of the George Soros memes, and while it is concerning, it's different than this.

This image is similar to the comparisons to Obama to Hitler when he was elected in 2008. Not a declaration of antisemitism but a showing of profound ignorance.

At what point does there stop being a difference between “just” being (publicly and loudly) “profoundly ignorant” about the Nazi regime, and being anti-Semitic? Why do you feel the need to rationalize and downplay the motives of some propagandist? Their work isn’t any nobler just because the rest of us are having a hard time being able to tell the subtle and important distinctions between their delusion, their ignorance, and their spite. They’re saying vaccines are as bad as Nazism; if you were talking in person to a Jew would you be this uptight about policing their anger and the wording of their criticisms of the content?

Well, intent is important. I don't think he's being uptight, pedantic or overly corrective by recognizing the intent behind what this person posted.

Kanadorika wrote:Right wing conspiracies get even more insane. Apparently now if you are vaccinated, you are no longer human and don't have human rights anymore and are to be exterminated.

Read at your own risk. Straight from the horse's mouth
https://truth11.com/2021/07/21/in-the-us-the-supreme-court-has-ruled-that-vaccinated-people-worldwide-are-products-patented-goods-according-to-us-law-no-longer-human/

"Since 2013, all people vaccinated with GM-modified mRNAs are legally trans-human and legally identified as trans-human and do not enjoy any human or other rights of a state, and this applies worldwide"

I wouldn't trust that site.

Edit: Nevermind. I thought you were using that as a source for an opinion for some reason. Reread your post and realized my mistake.