NATION

PASSWORD

American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Who do you think will win the Virginia Gubernatorial Race?

Terry McAuliffe(D)
57
57%
Glenn Youngkin(R)
43
43%
 
Total votes : 100

User avatar
Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7179
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:41 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kowani wrote:the problem with this theory is that the progressives are the ones trying to keep the entire domestic agenda afloat
the centrist position here is completely irrational


Admitting I am not following this event…..

Are they doing the usual political practice of “all my list has to happen!” ?

They already gave away some things from their list and the mods are dragged their feet on what exactly else they wanted.
Last edited by Uiiop on Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#NSTransparency

User avatar
Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73686
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:44 pm

And Schumer's useless ass has also ruined any proper negotiations on keeping to our fucking word by agreeing to Manchin's terms behind the scenes.

Our leaders in the Senate and House are awful, we need new leadership, not the stupid, useless old guard.
My Last.FM and RYM

RP's hosted by me: The Last of Us RP's

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Corrian wrote:"My way or the highway" is literally what the fuck the Moderates are doing, but you don't care about that, apparently. The MODERATES are the most likely ones to return Republican control to the Senate and House by refusing to get anything constructive done. Again, the progressives are the ones trying to get the full agenda passed. The moderates aren't. The progressives aren't the problem. The moderates can give in (like they have in the House) or get nothing. That was the ORIGINAL DEAL. To have both. Its not the progressives fault the moderates don't stick to their fucking word.


You can't always get everything you want. Sinking the bill will lead to what I described but if that's what you want to happen so be it.


The Black Forrest wrote:
Kowani wrote:the problem with this theory is that the progressives are the ones trying to keep the entire domestic agenda afloat
the centrist position here is completely irrational


Admitting I am not following this event…..

Are they doing the usual political practice of “all my list has to happen!” ?

a quick rundown of the problem

Biden releases BBB as one giant bill, with social/climate spending and infrastructure
Moderates demand he split it in two parts so they could get bipartisanship
progressives start social reconciliation bill at $6 Trillion over 10 years
Moderates cut it to $3.5 trillion over 10 years
the senate passes a $500 Billion infrastructure bill on a bipartisan basis-but the only reason progressives agreed to this was the understanding that both bills would pass and go to biden at the same time so no group could sink the other
moderates then put a bunch of means-testing and gimmicks into the already-cut reconciliation bill to make it less efficient
on top of this, a small group of the moderates (the Gottheimer 9) then tried to force the house to vote on the infrastructure bill before the senate had any agreement (or at least a public one, thanks to the manchin-schumer deal revealed today) on what reconciliation would look like

the progressives, understandably, don't want to give up their only leverage for getting their things done
hence where we are where we are now
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73686
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:53 pm

Kowani wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
You can't always get everything you want. Sinking the bill will lead to what I described but if that's what you want to happen so be it.


The Black Forrest wrote:
Admitting I am not following this event…..

Are they doing the usual political practice of “all my list has to happen!” ?

a quick rundown of the problem

Biden releases BBB as one giant bill, with social/climate spending and infrastructure
Moderates demand he split it in two parts so they could get bipartisanship
progressives start social reconciliation bill at $6 Trillion over 10 years
Moderates cut it to $3.5 trillion over 10 years
the senate passes a $500 Billion infrastructure bill on a bipartisan basis-but the only reason progressives agreed to this was the understanding that both bills would pass and go to biden at the same time so no group could sink the other
moderates then put a bunch of means-testing and gimmicks into the already-cut reconciliation bill to make it less efficient
on top of this, a small group of the moderates (the Gottheimer 9) then tried to force the house to vote on the infrastructure bill before the senate had any agreement (or at least a public one, thanks to the manchin-schumer deal revealed today) on what reconciliation would look like

the progressives, understandably, don't want to give up their only leverage for getting their things done
hence where we are where we are now

Mind you, the 500 billion for infrastructure was ALSO a god damn compromise. We need trillions in infrastructure in this country.
My Last.FM and RYM

RP's hosted by me: The Last of Us RP's

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:57 pm

Corrian wrote:
Kowani wrote:

a quick rundown of the problem

Biden releases BBB as one giant bill, with social/climate spending and infrastructure
Moderates demand he split it in two parts so they could get bipartisanship
progressives start social reconciliation bill at $6 Trillion over 10 years
Moderates cut it to $3.5 trillion over 10 years
the senate passes a $500 Billion infrastructure bill on a bipartisan basis-but the only reason progressives agreed to this was the understanding that both bills would pass and go to biden at the same time so no group could sink the other
moderates then put a bunch of means-testing and gimmicks into the already-cut reconciliation bill to make it less efficient
on top of this, a small group of the moderates (the Gottheimer 9) then tried to force the house to vote on the infrastructure bill before the senate had any agreement (or at least a public one, thanks to the manchin-schumer deal revealed today) on what reconciliation would look like

the progressives, understandably, don't want to give up their only leverage for getting their things done
hence where we are where we are now

Mind you, the 500 billion for infrastructure was ALSO a god damn compromise. We need trillions in infrastructure in this country.

also true
case in point, one of the good things the BIF tries to do is remove lead pipes
but because the allotment to lead pipe removal is only is 1/3 of what Biden proposed, most of it will be blown on figuring out where the lead pipes actually are
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Untecna
Senator
 
Posts: 4472
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Untecna » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:00 pm

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Untecna wrote:What is good about that man? If you are such an "American Patriot Citizen" and "Pro-Trump Conservative", you could tell me something that I am wrong about, no?

Except there is nothing good about Trump. At least not anything relevant to everyone, as I'm sure was stated before.

Fact: There are millions of American Patriot Citizens of the USA with Pride and Honor. who strongly agree with me, they are not imaginary Persons as a certain leftist posted too me and a few certain Persons agreed with him on. They are real Persons, American Patriot Citizens of the USA, with Pride and Honor. I strongly respect your Freedom of Speech and Democratic Rights to strongly disagree with me and us. I don't tell any Persons I am right and they are wrong on any issues, world leaders and VIPs. I just strongly and respectfully agree or disagree with them. Peace over and out. GMS.

Kind of late to reply, but reply I will.

Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you are right.
Californian

Dragon with internet access

Unironically still in NSG discussions, now turned to slight shitposting to make it fun for everyone else me and me only.

Heloin's perhaps unwanted accountant

Don't use my old posts to judge me, I was cringe af

Naan Violence, y'all.

Political Beliefs
TL;DR: I'm a democratic socialist. Surprise Surprise, I don't support genocide or violence.

Go 49rs

Untecna wrote:No, and you can talk to my dragon lawyers if you dragon want me to dragon shut up.

Hemakral wrote:damn bro that wall so thick kool-aid man couldn't bust through

[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.

Hispida wrote:"dude, you nuked us off the map"

"ok, well, you're the one who fucked with poland's tractor"

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:01 pm

fuckit
i'll write an effortpost on everything happening in congress that's actually important this week-and a little bit of how we got here
3 weeks of agony, then hell breaks loose
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Deblar
Senator
 
Posts: 4410
Founded: Jan 28, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:03 pm

Untecna wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:Fact: There are millions of American Patriot Citizens of the USA with Pride and Honor. who strongly agree with me, they are not imaginary Persons as a certain leftist posted too me and a few certain Persons agreed with him on. They are real Persons, American Patriot Citizens of the USA, with Pride and Honor. I strongly respect your Freedom of Speech and Democratic Rights to strongly disagree with me and us. I don't tell any Persons I am right and they are wrong on any issues, world leaders and VIPs. I just strongly and respectfully agree or disagree with them. Peace over and out. GMS.

Kind of late to reply, but reply I will.

Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you are right.

And the church said “amen”

User avatar
Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73686
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Kowani wrote:
Corrian wrote:Mind you, the 500 billion for infrastructure was ALSO a god damn compromise. We need trillions in infrastructure in this country.

also true
case in point, one of the good things the BIF tries to do is remove lead pipes
but because the allotment to lead pipe removal is only is 1/3 of what Biden proposed, most of it will be blown on figuring out where the lead pipes actually are

I know progressives are pushing their own "agenda" but they had a good graph showing what was even gutted with the original infrastructure bill. Which is so dumb because I bet it costs a LOT just to fix our crumbling bridges.
My Last.FM and RYM

RP's hosted by me: The Last of Us RP's

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55645
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:06 pm

Kowani wrote:
Corrian wrote:Mind you, the 500 billion for infrastructure was ALSO a god damn compromise. We need trillions in infrastructure in this country.

also true
case in point, one of the good things the BIF tries to do is remove lead pipes
but because the allotment to lead pipe removal is only is 1/3 of what Biden proposed, most of it will be blown on figuring out where the lead pipes actually are


Unfortunately it doesn’t affect them personally. You are most likely right on the lead pipe issue. It will mainly go to “research” on figuring out a way to locate them.

Water and sewage systems are in desperate need of upgrades. Not sexy so they always get put aside.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Greater Miami Shores 3
Senator
 
Posts: 4564
Founded: Jul 24, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:06 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Corrian wrote:Hopefully they do. Moderates aren't the only ones allowed to get their way anymore. Progressives are actually TRYING to fulfill Biden's agenda. The moderates are the ones ruining it. And I can't believe I have to say the progressives are following Biden better than anyone else.


Yes my way or highway and if it sinks his entire agenda and Republicans take back Congress next year oh well. enjoy Speaker McCarthy and Republicans nullifying a Democratic victory in 2024.

Interesting concept.
I will never tell you I am right and you are wrong in any way on any issues we are discussing. I will explain my side of it and I will leave it there.I GMS Am A Proud Conservative Republican Nationalist with A Slight Economic Libertarian Streak Neo Con Paleo Con America First Pro MAGA Pro Trump Ron DeSantis and Ronald Reagan Supporter The original Make America Great Again President of the USA With Pride and Honor.For the 2 Greatest American Presidents of the USA An Awesome Combination.

User avatar
Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73686
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:09 pm

Can't wait until we have another bridge collapse because our government can't get anything done.
My Last.FM and RYM

RP's hosted by me: The Last of Us RP's

Look on the bright side, one day you'll be dead~Street Sects

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55645
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:22 pm

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Yes my way or highway and if it sinks his entire agenda and Republicans take back Congress next year oh well. enjoy Speaker McCarthy and Republicans nullifying a Democratic victory in 2024.

Interesting concept.


You don’t like like free elections?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13920
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:38 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:Interesting concept.


You don’t like like free elections?


How does that make him not like free elections?

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81293
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:39 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
You don’t like like free elections?


How does that make him not like free elections?

It should be obvious.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81293
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:40 pm

Corrian wrote:Can't wait until we have another bridge collapse because our government can't get anything done.


We could prevent it by passing the infrastructure bill

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55645
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:41 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
You don’t like like free elections?


How does that make him not like free elections?


Nullification of an election result you don’t like kind of suggests you don’t.

I already know he belives the Big Lie is true.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13920
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:42 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
How does that make him not like free elections?


Nullification of an election result you don’t like kind of suggests you don’t.

I already know he belives the Big Lie is true.


Oh that’s what you meant. Yeah that doesn’t sound good.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:42 pm

Actually trying to now tell us that we need to work for free.
Stop Expecting to Get Paid for Your Time

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:46 pm

Genivaria wrote:Actually trying to now tell us that we need to work for free.
Stop Expecting to Get Paid for Your Time


Yeah, sounds like you didn't read it. Because that's not what they said in the article. It's one of those "use your time for self betterment not watching netflix" articles.
Last edited by Tarsonis on Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55645
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:47 pm

Genivaria wrote:Actually trying to now tell us that we need to work for free.
Stop Expecting to Get Paid for Your Time


For some reason; I don’t think the author works for free.

It’s fascinating how people with money have all this life improving advice.

I remember a Chinese. billionaire giving a talk on AI at my previous company and basically it’s going to be China’s area. The rest of us don’t have to worry about job loss as there will be tons of jobs in Compassionate Care.

He tried to explain how an 80% or so reduction in salary is actually better for you.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Actually trying to now tell us that we need to work for free.
Stop Expecting to Get Paid for Your Time


Yeah, sounds like you didn't read it. Because that's not what they said in the article. It's one of those "use your time for self betterment not watching netflix" articles.

There are many of us who just can’t separate the idea that if we are working, we should be getting paid. We think that if we are using our time to do something, there should be some form of monetary reward.

We often hear ourselves saying things like, “I am not doing that for free,” but we’re not looking at what we’re actually learning or the skills we are gaining from the use of our time. This mindset that our time should always be exchanged for money needs to go. When you start thinking that your time could be exchanged for other things like learning new skills and bettering yourself, you’ll start seeing the rewards it brings to your life (which, hey, will lead to more money at some point).

No don't don't say exactly those words but they're basically talking about unpaid internship and learning 'skills'.
Rich asshole giving me advise about my budget because they can't imagine the vast majority of their income going straight to food and shelter.

User avatar
Antipatros
Minister
 
Posts: 2749
Founded: Aug 26, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Antipatros » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:58 pm

If the House Republicans wanted to kill the reconciliation bill, you'd think that McCarthy would tell his members to vote for the bipartisan package.

It looks like they want to kill both bills, with the help of progressives.

User avatar
Hispida
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7034
Founded: Jun 21, 2021
Anarchy

Postby Hispida » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:59 pm

Genivaria wrote:Actually trying to now tell us that we need to work for free.
Stop Expecting to Get Paid for Your Time

i thought we already did
To the NationStates Staff...
the autistic genderfluid maoist your parents never warned you about (she/they)
world's weakest brisket enjoyer

Victory Day: February 23, 2022
Factbook
current music recommendation: 757 by 100 gecs

User avatar
Antipatros
Minister
 
Posts: 2749
Founded: Aug 26, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Antipatros » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:59 pm

Antipatros wrote:If the House Republicans wanted to kill the reconciliation bill, you'd think that McCarthy would tell his members to vote for the bipartisan package.

It looks like they want to kill both bills, with the help of progressives.

I guess the other possibilities is they force the Democrats to go it alone, then roll out the "say no to socialism" ads.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dazchan, Necroghastia, Upper Ireland

Advertisement

Remove ads