American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

[Lord Dominator]

So apparently Manchin had a backstage deal with Schumer this summer that limited the size of the reconciliation bill, as well as beginning debate no earlier than October 1st

(Image)

whether or not that is binding remains to be seen

Given that House progressives have been under the impression this whole time that there was a deal for $3.5T, doesn't this basically mean Schumer has been putting one over on them (and maybe the White House too) since July...? Or do we think it's more likely the White House was in on this because Biden's ultimately fine with a more Manchinoid approach?

“ Both Manchin and Schumer signed the document. Schumer appears to have written a note saying that he “I will try to dissuade Joe on many of these.”

“Leader Schumer never agreed to any of the conditions Sen. Manchin laid out; he merely acknowledged where Sen. Manchin was on the subject at the time," said a spokesperson for Schumer. "Sen. Manchin did not rule out voting for a reconciliation bill that exceeded the ideas he outlined, and Leader Schumer made clear that he would work to convince Sen. Manchin to support a final reconciliation bill — as he has doing been for weeks.””

[Uiiop]

So apparently Manchin had a backstage deal with Schumer this summer that limited the size of the reconciliation bill, as well as beginning debate no earlier than October 1st

(Image)

whether or not that is binding remains to be seen

Given that House progressives have been under the impression this whole time that there was a deal for $3.5T, doesn't this basically mean Schumer has been putting one over on them (and maybe the White House too) since July...? Or do we think it's more likely the White House was in on this because Biden's ultimately fine with a more Manchinoid approach?

My assumption is to take Hanlon's razor until actually proven otherwise so the former in this case.

Edit: or what lord showed. Huh.

[The Black Forrest]

Return West Virginia to Virginia

This, unironically. West Virginia's statehood is completely unconstitutional. It's admission to the Union violated Article IV, Section III, Clause I.

It’s not that simple actually. Never mind the fact SCOTUS never took up the case and it’s pretty much untouchable now.

Even then it’s not the first instance.

Maine entered the union born out of Massachusetts territory as part of the Missouri compromise. Kentucky and Vermont were created with territory from other states as well.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on- ... od-process

[Kowani]

House currently voting on Continuing Resolution to avoid a government shutodown

Passes House (254-175)

All Dems voted yes, only 34 Republicans voted yes

Biden must sign before midnight

[The Black Forrest]

wtf a based algerstonia take???

Keep West Virginia Great Again.

What does that mean?

[San Lumen]

House currently voting on Continuing Resolution to avoid a government shutodown

Passes House (254-175)

All Dems voted yes, only 34 Republicans voted yes

Biden must sign before midnight

At least a shutdown is averted. Im sure he will sign by midnight.

[Uiiop]

House currently voting on Continuing Resolution to avoid a government shutodown

Passes House (254-175)

All Dems voted yes, only 34 Republicans voted yes

I don't really know why anyone expected anything different other than in-group disagreements being blown way out of proportion.

[Senkaku]

Given that House progressives have been under the impression this whole time that there was a deal for $3.5T, doesn't this basically mean Schumer has been putting one over on them (and maybe the White House too) since July...? Or do we think it's more likely the White House was in on this because Biden's ultimately fine with a more Manchinoid approach?

“ Both Manchin and Schumer signed the document. Schumer appears to have written a note saying that he “I will try to dissuade Joe on many of these.”

“Leader Schumer never agreed to any of the conditions Sen. Manchin laid out; he merely acknowledged where Sen. Manchin was on the subject at the time," said a spokesperson for Schumer. "Sen. Manchin did not rule out voting for a reconciliation bill that exceeded the ideas he outlined, and Leader Schumer made clear that he would work to convince Sen. Manchin to support a final reconciliation bill — as he has doing been for weeks.””

Oh, shit, he scribbled a little note on the bottom under the signature line! He said he'd "try to dissuade" Manchin on "many" things! That means that the document that's titled "Agreement" doesn't actually entail agreeing to anything! (???)

He may be an corrupt idiot without any ideas of his own or understanding of the national situation, but I can see why Manchin's now annoyed that people are saying he's breaking the terms of a deal, if Schumer and him both signed this months ago. Unless there's another document where he signed onto a $3.5T agreement somewhere, that's evidence right there that party leadership has never really supported progressives' goals for this bill and has been duplicitously enabling centrists' obstruction efforts.

[Heloin]

Keep West Virginia Great Again.

What does that mean?

You don’t look at the industrial decay and rural poverty in West Virginia as a shining beacon of hope?

[Senkaku]

What does that mean?

You don’t look at the industrial decay and rural poverty in West Virginia as a shining beacon of hope?

the place so nice they keeped it twice

[The Black Forrest]

What does that mean?

You don’t look at the industrial decay and rural poverty in West Virginia as a shining beacon of hope?

Haven’t they been given the chance to be entrepreneurs and show us rugged individualism?

[Uiiop]

“ Both Manchin and Schumer signed the document. Schumer appears to have written a note saying that he “I will try to dissuade Joe on many of these.”

“Leader Schumer never agreed to any of the conditions Sen. Manchin laid out; he merely acknowledged where Sen. Manchin was on the subject at the time," said a spokesperson for Schumer. "Sen. Manchin did not rule out voting for a reconciliation bill that exceeded the ideas he outlined, and Leader Schumer made clear that he would work to convince Sen. Manchin to support a final reconciliation bill — as he has doing been for weeks.””

Oh, shit, he scribbled a little note on the bottom under the signature line! That means that the document that's titled "Agreement" doesn't actually entail agreeing to anything! (???)

He may be an corrupt idiot without any ideas of his own or understanding of the national situation, but I can see why Manchin's now annoyed that people are saying he's breaking the terms of a deal, if Schumer and him both signed this months ago. Unless there's another document where he signed onto a $3.5T agreement somewhere, that's evidence right there that party leadership has never really supported progressives' goals for this bill and has been duplicitously enabling centrists' obstruction efforts.

Schumer may in fact to be dumb to interpret an agreement as just something way looser than it was and/or changing he could change it before anyone found out.
I have no faith in these politicians' competence even for ill.

[Senkaku]

Oh, shit, he scribbled a little note on the bottom under the signature line! That means that the document that's titled "Agreement" doesn't actually entail agreeing to anything! (???)

He may be an corrupt idiot without any ideas of his own or understanding of the national situation, but I can see why Manchin's now annoyed that people are saying he's breaking the terms of a deal, if Schumer and him both signed this months ago. Unless there's another document where he signed onto a $3.5T agreement somewhere, that's evidence right there that party leadership has never really supported progressives' goals for this bill and has been duplicitously enabling centrists' obstruction efforts.

Schumer may in fact to be dumb to interpret an agreement as just something way looser than it was and/or changing he could change it before anyone found out.
I have no faith in these politicians' competence even for ill.

The most charitable possible interpretation would be that he thought he'd be able to change Manchin's mind and have him sign something else before it ever came to light, which would show that party leadership are insanely stupid and naive (as progressives have been saying for years) when it comes to negotiations with centrists. The least charitable is that Schumer and the White House thought this would lock them in at a number acceptable to them, and that the progressives would back down as usual if Manchin and Sinema stood their ground and pretended to be immune to fake "pressure" from the WH and other Senate Dems put on as a performance for House progressives' benefit.

[Corrian]

“ Both Manchin and Schumer signed the document. Schumer appears to have written a note saying that he “I will try to dissuade Joe on many of these.”

“Leader Schumer never agreed to any of the conditions Sen. Manchin laid out; he merely acknowledged where Sen. Manchin was on the subject at the time," said a spokesperson for Schumer. "Sen. Manchin did not rule out voting for a reconciliation bill that exceeded the ideas he outlined, and Leader Schumer made clear that he would work to convince Sen. Manchin to support a final reconciliation bill — as he has doing been for weeks.””

Oh, shit, he scribbled a little note on the bottom under the signature line! He said he'd "try to dissuade" Manchin on "many" things! That means that the document that's titled "Agreement" doesn't actually entail agreeing to anything! (???)

He may be an corrupt idiot without any ideas of his own or understanding of the national situation, but I can see why Manchin's now annoyed that people are saying he's breaking the terms of a deal, if Schumer and him both signed this months ago. Unless there's another document where he signed onto a $3.5T agreement somewhere, that's evidence right there that party leadership has never really supported progressives' goals for this bill and has been duplicitously enabling centrists' obstruction efforts.

It was so disappointing seeing Schumer having signed that. So much for "listening to progressives".

[Corrian]

Schumer may in fact to be dumb to interpret an agreement as just something way looser than it was and/or changing he could change it before anyone found out.
I have no faith in these politicians' competence even for ill.

The most charitable possible interpretation would be that he thought he'd be able to change Manchin's mind and have him sign something else before it ever came to light, which would show that party leadership are insanely stupid and naive (as progressives have been saying for years) when it comes to negotiations with centrists. The least charitable is that Schumer and the White House thought this would lock them in at a number acceptable to them, and that the progressives would back down as usual if Manchin and Sinema stood their ground and pretended to be immune to fake "pressure" from the WH and other Senate Dems put on as a performance for House progressives' benefit.

Little did they know that the progressives in the House are HOLDING their ground this time. So that's gonna be fun.

[Kowani]

House Members advised that the House is expected to complete consideration of the Senate Amendment to H.R. 3684 – Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act today


that is, Pelosi plans to go forward with the infrastructure bill today


also clyburn just hasn't been whipping votes for some reason?

[San Lumen]

House Members advised that the House is expected to complete consideration of the Senate Amendment to H.R. 3684 – Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act today


that is, Pelosi plans to go forward with the infrastructure bill today


also clyburn just hasn't been whipping votes for some reason?

Hopefully progressives aren't stupid enough to vote it down and sink the entire domestic agenda

[Corrian]

House Members advised that the House is expected to complete consideration of the Senate Amendment to H.R. 3684 – Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act today


that is, Pelosi plans to go forward with the infrastructure bill today


also clyburn just hasn't been whipping votes for some reason?

Hopefully progressives aren't stupid enough to vote it down and sink the entire domestic agenda

Hopefully they do. Moderates aren't the only ones allowed to get their way anymore. Progressives are actually TRYING to fulfill Biden's agenda. The moderates are the ones ruining it. And I can't believe I have to say the progressives are following Biden better than anyone else.

[San Lumen]

Hopefully progressives aren't stupid enough to vote it down and sink the entire domestic agenda

Hopefully they do. Moderates aren't the only ones allowed to get their way anymore. Progressives are actually TRYING to fulfill Biden's agenda. The moderates are the ones ruining it. And I can't believe I have to say the progressives are following Biden better than anyone else.

Yes my way or highway and if it sinks his entire agenda and Republicans take back Congress next year oh well. enjoy Speaker McCarthy and Republicans nullifying a Democratic victory in 2024.

[Kowani]

House Members advised that the House is expected to complete consideration of the Senate Amendment to H.R. 3684 – Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act today


that is, Pelosi plans to go forward with the infrastructure bill today


also clyburn just hasn't been whipping votes for some reason?

Hopefully progressives aren't stupid enough to vote it down and sink the entire domestic agenda

the problem with this theory is that the progressives are the ones trying to keep the entire domestic agenda afloat
the centrist position here is completely irrational

[Corrian]

Hopefully they do. Moderates aren't the only ones allowed to get their way anymore. Progressives are actually TRYING to fulfill Biden's agenda. The moderates are the ones ruining it. And I can't believe I have to say the progressives are following Biden better than anyone else.

Yes my way or highway and if it sinks his entire agenda and Republicans take back Congress next year oh well. enjoy Speaker McCarthy and Republicans nullifying a Democratic victory in 2024.

"My way or the highway" is literally what the fuck the Moderates are doing, but you don't care about that, apparently. The MODERATES are the most likely ones to return Republican control to the Senate and House by refusing to get anything constructive done. Again, the progressives are the ones trying to get the full agenda passed. The moderates aren't. The progressives aren't the problem. The moderates can give in (like they have in the House) or get nothing. That was the ORIGINAL DEAL. To have both. Its not the progressives fault the moderates don't stick to their fucking word.

[The Black Forrest]

Hopefully progressives aren't stupid enough to vote it down and sink the entire domestic agenda

the problem with this theory is that the progressives are the ones trying to keep the entire domestic agenda afloat
the centrist position here is completely irrational

Admitting I am not following this event…..

Are they doing the usual political practice of “all my list has to happen!” ?

[San Lumen]

Yes my way or highway and if it sinks his entire agenda and Republicans take back Congress next year oh well. enjoy Speaker McCarthy and Republicans nullifying a Democratic victory in 2024.

"My way or the highway" is literally what the fuck the Moderates are doing, but you don't care about that, apparently. The MODERATES are the most likely ones to return Republican control to the Senate and House by refusing to get anything constructive done. Again, the progressives are the ones trying to get the full agenda passed. The moderates aren't. The progressives aren't the problem. The moderates can give in (like they have in the House) or get nothing. That was the ORIGINAL DEAL. To have both. Its not the progressives fault the moderates don't stick to their fucking word.

You can't always get everything you want. Sinking the bill will lead to what I described but if that's what you want to happen so be it.

[Corrian]

Like the House is passing good things left and right overall, but they all hit a fucking dead end in the Senate because we have two useless moderates refusing to do ANYTHING. So yes, its time the god damn progressives fight back against those who refuse to get any of the agenda done at all.

[Corrian]

"My way or the highway" is literally what the fuck the Moderates are doing, but you don't care about that, apparently. The MODERATES are the most likely ones to return Republican control to the Senate and House by refusing to get anything constructive done. Again, the progressives are the ones trying to get the full agenda passed. The moderates aren't. The progressives aren't the problem. The moderates can give in (like they have in the House) or get nothing. That was the ORIGINAL DEAL. To have both. Its not the progressives fault the moderates don't stick to their fucking word.

You can't always get everything you want. Sinking the bill will lead to what I described but if that's what you want to happen so be it.

Okay, so when are the moderates going to admit they don't get what they want all the time? Oh right, they don't have to admit that, but the progressives do? Yeah, fuck that.

Edit: And no, it isn't what I want to happen. What I want to happen is popular legislation actually passing. THAT'S what will make people motivated. If we can't do that at all, nobody would be motivated. This isn't hard to grasp.