American Politics VII: Virginia Reel

[Blargoblarg]

The Gateway Pundit reports:

Democrat Rep. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wore a dress adorned with the words “tax the rich” to the $30,000 per ticket Met Gala on Monday evening.

On Tuesday morning, an ethics complaint was filed against her for it by the government watchdog American Accountability Foundation (AAF).

The AAF said that Ocasio-Cortez violated House Ethics rules by accepting “an impermissible gift” of the highly coveted tickets.

“Specifically, we believe Representative Ocasio-Cortez has violated clause 5 of Rule XXV of the Rules of the House of Representatives (commonly known as the Gift Rule) by accepting admission to the Met Gala, an event whose per seat costs is reported to range from $35,000 to $50,000, without having a permissible exemption to allow the acceptance of the lavish gift,” American Accountability Foundation President Tom Jones wrote in the complaint.

“If Representative Occasio-Cortez has used campaign funds to pay for this ticket, she has also violated FEC prohibitions on campaign funds being used for entertainment purposes,” the complaint continued

(The Congresswoman wrote on Instagram earlier that "many elected officials regularly attend due to our responsibilities in keeping cultural institutions open to the public," and that "if you live in the NYC area you can go to the Met [Gala]... for as little $ as you like.")

My problem with AOC doing that is that it's the same sort of performative nonsense as Nancy Pelosi kneeling while wearing kente cloth. It accomplishes nothing for the working class.

[Kilobugya]

My problem with AOC doing that is that it's the same sort of performative nonsense as Nancy Pelosi kneeling while wearing kente cloth. It accomplishes nothing for the working class.

Attracting media attention to the issue is not "nothing". It's not enough, sure, but it's "something" in class struggle.

[San Lumen]

Most of the vote left is in Newsom-friendly area...Not only is he going to not be recalled, he's going to not be recalled by a HUGE margin.

I know it’s California but will this make Republicans realise that Trumpist candidates are a sure fire means of losing elections because people are more motivated to vote against that shit rather than a minority who will, except that minority is a majority of Republican supporters.

As I understand it Newsom turned this around by going ‘this guy’s just like Trump’.

.. they sure are in a pickle.

No it won’t. It’s likely they keep putting up Trumpist candidates because that is what their base wants.

[Thermodolia]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/09/14/new-reporting-shows-general-milley-engaged-in-a-coup-against-trump-n2595858

Apparently the general decided to call the Chinese and assure them that he would warn them of any attack. Of all the things that happened over the last 5 years, this is the one that actually fits the definition of treason.

That's not a good source. Its rated as Questionable by MediaBias FactCheck.

Dude the Hill reported the same thing. Actually all the media sources I have did

[San Lumen]

That's not a good source. Its rated as Questionable by MediaBias FactCheck.

Dude the Hill reported the same thing. Actually all the media sources I have did

Doesn’t negate the fact Town Hall isn’t a good source. The Hill is.

[Thermodolia]

Right. And Milley wouldn’t have done this unless he was legitimately concerned that Trump, who was and is still is batshit crazy, would launch a nuclear strike against China in order to cling on to power. Quite frankly, I would have done the same exact thing that Milley did. Trump was and still is a danger to the existence of the Republic

Sure and I can't fault that because I probably would have done it as well, but like Antipatros said even if it was the right call morally it was still wildly out of line legally and needs to be punished immediately. Military independence isn't fun unless you want someone to eventually march on DC and declare himself Lord Protector of the Republic.

You rang?

[Vassenor]

My problem with AOC doing that is that it's the same sort of performative nonsense as Nancy Pelosi kneeling while wearing kente cloth. It accomplishes nothing for the working class.

Attracting media attention to the issue is not "nothing". It's not enough, sure, but it's "something" in class struggle.

So what changed as a result of Black Lives Matter Plaza and the like? After all it drew media attention.

[Thermodolia]

You have a point with that last part and I edited it to make it more accurate. But the military bypassed their own rules to make sure Trump wouldn’t do anything. And the collaboration with China makes it worse. They made it clear that they can and will override the law in order to do what they think is necessary.

Obviously Trump was unstable and dangerous. It shouldn’t have taken a coup, even a soft one, to stop him in case he did anything crazy.

You know the oath to defend the Constitution is a tricky one. We're sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies, Foreign, and domestic. It's that domestic part that really is a hangup because what if the very President that commands the military, is a threat to the Constitution? What is a Marine to do? How does one keep their oath in that situation?

Milley did what he thought was right, not to undermine the chain of command, not to overthrow the US government and seize control, but to defend the institutions he swore to defend, from being destroyed by a president who demonstrably could not he trusted not to destroy the world on a fucking whim. And he knew there was a strong possibility, history would not see this kindly.

I don't care what any of you say, Milley is a god damned Patriot.

Sure he may very well be a patriot, but even then he should resign as to show that this action is not to be taken lightly.

[Duvniask]

My problem with AOC doing that is that it's the same sort of performative nonsense as Nancy Pelosi kneeling while wearing kente cloth. It accomplishes nothing for the working class.

Attracting media attention to the issue is not "nothing". It's not enough, sure, but it's "something" in class struggle.

It'll be talked about for a bit, and that's that. It's the same impotence that characterizes a lot of protests in our age.

[Thermodolia]

That was the first part, but he also told them what he was going to do.

Okay, I have to ask again...everyone understands that declarations of war preceding an attack of that nature are the norm, right? That it would be following procedure to do such a thing? Because I get the feeling that apparently no one understands that.

Dude declarations of war haven’t been a thing since the 60s because when you declare a war you have to follow the rules of war. Don’t declare one and you can blow up that city to kingdom come.

[Kilobugya]

So what changed as a result of Black Lives Matter Plaza and the like? After all it drew media attention.

There has been changes of rules and oversight inside police departments in many places. Clearly not at the level which was needed, very dependent of the local police department, but not nothing. An insufficient step forward is both that, insufficient and a step forward, and forgetting one aspect to focus solely on the other is both wrong and hurting the struggle (either by discouraging people who will think it's useless to struggle, or by making people feel it's no longer needed).

[Thermodolia]

Even if it mean the death American servicepeople?

Let's be clear, we're not talking about whistle blowing a night op or fleet movements. We're talking about nuclear attacks. When then body count will measure in the hundreds of millions, it really stops mattering what shirt they're wearing.

Well to be fair he said “attacked” he didn’t say “under nuclear attack”

[Kilobugya]

It'll be talked about for a bit, and that's that. It's the same impotence that characterizes a lot of protests in our age.

By "being talked about" it moves the Overton window. It makes progressive candidates in elections seem less outlandish, their proposals more likely to gain traction. It may take time to go from that to real change, and it's not a certain thing, but it does more the needle towards a slightly higher chance of something being done in the future.

[Senkaku]

It'll be talked about for a bit, and that's that. It's the same impotence that characterizes a lot of protests in our age.

By "being talked about" it moves the Overton window. It makes progressive candidates in elections seem less outlandish, their proposals more likely to gain traction. It may take time to go from that to real change, and it's not a certain thing, but it does more the needle towards a slightly higher chance of something being done in the future.

Do you think anyone, even with the most sophisticated analysis tools and biggest data streams, could ever actually measure the political impact of the dress, or is this just a very vague chain of hopes that you’ve put together?

In any case, I’m glad NSG is catching up with Twitter, it might be simpler for someone to just paste in a few of the catfights there about the dress so people here who aren’t on Twitter can read them and get caught up without rehashing all the same stuff as if it were original thought

[Ifreann]

Okay, I have to ask again...everyone understands that declarations of war preceding an attack of that nature are the norm, right? That it would be following procedure to do such a thing? Because I get the feeling that apparently no one understands that.

Dude declarations of war haven’t been a thing since the 60s because when you declare a war you have to follow the rules of war. Don’t declare one and you can blow up that city to kingdom come.

Did you hear, fellas? Mass murder is legal during peace time.

[Thermodolia]

Their job is to confirm such an order came from up top, not stop it. Further, if the President were to directly go to them and order them to do it, thereby bypassing Milley, then they would still have to obey said order. Milley told them to ignore such orders.

Look, I really do not care. I'm just running on the assumption that the Americans ITT would prefer maximizing their chances on holding onto their current form of government. I don't care if America remains a republic, I don't care if it turns into an autocracy.

I'm pretty sure that's mandated. As in, no, the president can't bypass the chain of command.

The only person who can stop a nuclear attack is SECDEF, a civilian. The Joint Chiefs are required by federal law to carry out the orders of the President. And the President can fire everyone involved in the chain of command until someone does what he wants. Ala Saturday night massacre

[Thermodolia]

He can actually. The President as plenary power over the military. If the President wanted to, they could take direct control over planning military strategy.

No they can't. For one, the president has to identify themselves using their launch codes to military officials. And military officials have the right and duty to refuse illegal orders.

The military can not refuse a nuclear order. They legally can not

[San Lumen]

No they can't. For one, the president has to identify themselves using their launch codes to military officials. And military officials have the right and duty to refuse illegal orders.

The military can not refuse a nuclear order. They legally can not

So your saying if the president ordered Beijing to be nuked it must be carried out? That needs to change.

[Kilobugya]

Do you think anyone, even with the most sophisticated analysis tools and biggest data streams, could ever actually measure the political impact of the dress, or is this just a very vague chain of hopes that you’ve put together?

Well, it's just a drop in the bucket, it'll not change much by itself. But even the largest rivers are made of many drops, we shouldn't neglect adding one drop here and one drop there.

[Thermodolia]

Dude declarations of war haven’t been a thing since the 60s because when you declare a war you have to follow the rules of war. Don’t declare one and you can blow up that city to kingdom come.

Did you hear, fellas? Mass murder is legal during peace time.

Well it effectively is. At least to the nuclear powers who don’t give a fuck about international law

[Thermodolia]

The military can not refuse a nuclear order. They legally can not

So your saying if the president ordered Beijing to be nuked it must be carried out? That needs to change.

Yes. I don’t disagree

[Kilobugya]

The military can not refuse a nuclear order. They legally can not

Legally under which law ? The Constitution isn't very clear about it - except that it constitutes a declaration of war, which is Congress not the President to decide. International treaties don't allow it. No law passed by Congress allow it. So no, they cannot legally obey.

[Ifreann]

Did you hear, fellas? Mass murder is legal during peace time.

Well it effectively is. At least to the nuclear powers who don’t give a fuck about international law

Interesting attitude the troops must have to the law, if they'll follow orders to let fly the nukes no matter what, since the law says they have to, but they won't be bothered about laws against murder.

[Picairn]

The military can not refuse a nuclear order. They legally can not

Without authorization from Congress or the UN Security Council the President can't order unilateral military actions towards a country the US is not at war with.

[San Lumen]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5723 ... -authority

Vindman calls for Milley's resignation: 'He usurped civilian authority'