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Goddess vs Mortal Hypothetical

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What should be done? (Please also state what your PR approach would be)

Help Artemis (with or without conditions), Reward Ostro
10
36%
Help Artemis (with or without conditions), Sanction Ostro
3
11%
Non-Intervention
7
25%
Leave Artemis, Reward Ostro
6
21%
Regulate Artemis, Sanction Ostro
2
7%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 28

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:06 am

Dakini wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
It is an IM Verse re-interpretation (to advance the hypothetical and make for good storytelling). I am familiar with the original Greek myths.

I think you failed on the second count of your parenthetical.


how would you have written it?

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:07 am

Kannap wrote:
Dakini wrote:I mean, she just turned Adonis into a boar for claiming to be a better hunter. It seems like so much less effort.


Adonis wasn't turned into a boar, as far as I remember. He got really into hunting and made Artemis jealous, causing her to send a wild boar that kills Adonis during one of his hunting expeditions.

Callisto, on the other hand, was turned into a bear. She was a mortal follower of Artemis who was impregnated by Zeus. When Hera later found out she became so jealous she turned Callisto into a bear. While Callisto's son was out hunting and about to kill her as a bear, Zeus set her among the stars as the constellation Ursa Major

Boar, not bear. And if you see Womfodder Delivery's comments, it's not cannon.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:08 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Dakini wrote:I think you failed on the second count of your parenthetical.


how would you have written it?


I wouldn't have. Some things are better left untouched. The recent trend of Hollywood to release sequels to 20-30 year old movies has proven this.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:09 am

Dakini wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Adonis wasn't turned into a boar, as far as I remember. He got really into hunting and made Artemis jealous, causing her to send a wild boar that kills Adonis during one of his hunting expeditions.

Callisto, on the other hand, was turned into a bear. She was a mortal follower of Artemis who was impregnated by Zeus. When Hera later found out she became so jealous she turned Callisto into a bear. While Callisto's son was out hunting and about to kill her as a bear, Zeus set her among the stars as the constellation Ursa Major

Boar, not bear. And if you see Womfodder Delivery's comments, it's not cannon.


Fair, fair. Definitely sounded like a shitty story anyway, all things considered.
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Wormfodder Delivery
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Postby Wormfodder Delivery » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:10 am

Hmm... Put a Frau Holle Worshipping Althist germania would be cool.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:11 am

Wormfodder Delivery wrote:Hmm... Put a Frau Holle Worshipping Althist germania would be cool.


Eh? Never heard of it

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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:11 am

Kannap wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
It's a new interpretation of the character. What do you think?


Worst interpretation of Artemis I've ever seen, thank goodness the ancient Greeks had some sense not to write nonsense like this.

It's no Hades Artemis.
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:13 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Dakini wrote:I think you failed on the second count of your parenthetical.


how would you have written it?

By taking into account the actual characteristics and qualities of the characters involved (e.g. Artemis isn't generally a jealous person, is known for environmental preservation not destruction, rewards and cherishes her followers etc) and avoiding words like "spamming", "OP" and other terms that are just absolutely jarring.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:14 am

Dakini wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
how would you have written it?

By taking into account the actual characteristics and qualities of the characters involved (e.g. Artemis isn't generally a jealous person, is known for environmental preservation not destruction, rewards and cherishes her followers etc) and avoiding words like "spamming", "OP" and other terms that are just absolutely jarring.


all entities are subject to re-interpretation, that is part of the medium

also, the words were used to try and convey what happened in an economical manner (since the OP thread was already running too long) to a modern audience

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Wormfodder Delivery
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Postby Wormfodder Delivery » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:16 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Wormfodder Delivery wrote:Hmm... Put a Frau Holle Worshipping Althist germania would be cool.


Eh? Never heard of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:18 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Dakini wrote:By taking into account the actual characteristics and qualities of the characters involved (e.g. Artemis isn't generally a jealous person, is known for environmental preservation not destruction, rewards and cherishes her followers etc) and avoiding words like "spamming", "OP" and other terms that are just absolutely jarring.


all entities are subject to re-interpretation, that is part of the medium

If you're going to create your own characters, then don't bother writing fanfic. Just make your own shitty characters.

Your reimagining of Artemis reads more like you have the barest level of knowledge about the Greek pantheon and went "well, they're all jealous, petty, shitty assholes, aren't they?" without considering that this isn't an accurate characterization of all the gods.

also, the words were used to try and convey what happened in an economical manner (since the OP thread was already running too long) to a modern audience

They make it read like you're 14 describing how you play a video game.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:25 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Dakini wrote:By taking into account the actual characteristics and qualities of the characters involved (e.g. Artemis isn't generally a jealous person, is known for environmental preservation not destruction, rewards and cherishes her followers etc) and avoiding words like "spamming", "OP" and other terms that are just absolutely jarring.


all entities are subject to re-interpretation, that is part of the medium


You could have made your own goddess - like you did anyway - without putting the name of an existing one on it and trying to pass it off as them.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:31 am

Your constructive criticisms will be taken into consideration for future hypotheticals. Many thanks!

Nevertheless, I feel that for this situation in particular, it is better to tie it to the Greek mythology. If you want to treat it as more of a fanfic cannon that's fine; just treat it as a set of premises, try to think them out, and decide/justify a position for one of the options. It's meant to be a fun exercise, don't overthink it.

Basically, try to put yourself into the shows of an Olympian immortal politician/advocate and see where you would stand on the matter at hand. There's a myriad of possible answers and perspectives possible. It's quite a set of puzzle here.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:32 am

Looking at the polls, it appears that roughly 50% of those who voted favour a policy of non-intervention with respect to this dilemma. This result wasn't anticipated.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:33 am

People shouldn't feel beholden to mythological canon if they would rather have some alternative take on any god or goddess.

It would help if it were a good take, but as they say, 90% of all creative works are shit.
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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:39 am

You are an immortal on the council of Zeus, King of the Gods.

sod this divine politics nonsense. I'm going to turn into a cow and seduce some mortals.
Imagine reading a signature, but over the course of it the quality seems to deteriorate and it gets wose an wose, where the swenetence stwucture and gwammer rewerts to a pwoint of uttew non swence, an u jus dont wanna wead it anymwore (o´ω`o) awd twa wol owdewl iws jus awfwul (´・ω・`);. bwt tw sinawtur iwswnwt obwer nyet, it gwos own an own an own an own. uwu wanyaa stwop weadwing bwut uwu cwant stop wewding, uwu stwartd thwis awnd ur gwoing two fwinibsh it nowo mwattew wat! uwu hab mwoxie kwiddowo, bwut uwu wibl gwib ub sowon. i cwan wite wike dis fwor owors, swo dwont cwalengbe mii..

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:45 am

Haganham wrote:
You are an immortal on the council of Zeus, King of the Gods.

sod this divine politics nonsense. I'm going to turn into a cow and seduce some mortals.


You don’t want to offend the other gods and immortals?

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:51 am

I'm literally loyal to and work with Artemis, as a dutiful follower of the Theoi, this is such an odd characterization of her. She's not at all the jealous type and she's a protector and conservationist too. Like, there are other goddesses that would make more sense for this role, like Hera for example.

I don't know how, but somehow you managed to flanderize an ancient goddess beyond recognition. That's the most impressive thing about this.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:58 am

Auzkhia wrote:I'm literally loyal to and work with Artemis, as a dutiful follower of the Theoi, this is such an odd characterization of her. She's not at all the jealous type and she's a protector and conservationist too. Like, there are other goddesses that would make more sense for this role, like Hera for example.

I don't know how, but somehow you managed to flanderize an ancient goddess beyond recognition. That's the most impressive thing about this.

Artemis, goddess of lesbians.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:22 am

Auzkhia wrote:I'm literally loyal to and work with Artemis, as a dutiful follower of the Theoi, this is such an odd characterization of her. She's not at all the jealous type and she's a protector and conservationist too. Like, there are other goddesses that would make more sense for this role, like Hera for example.

I don't know how, but somehow you managed to flanderize an ancient goddess beyond recognition. That's the most impressive thing about this.


Hera was considered but her status as married to Zeus would undermine some of the viability of this particular setup. Also, I'm not sure what kind of supernatural weapons Hera could use.

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:11 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:I'm literally loyal to and work with Artemis, as a dutiful follower of the Theoi, this is such an odd characterization of her. She's not at all the jealous type and she's a protector and conservationist too. Like, there are other goddesses that would make more sense for this role, like Hera for example.

I don't know how, but somehow you managed to flanderize an ancient goddess beyond recognition. That's the most impressive thing about this.


Hera was considered but her status as married to Zeus would undermine some of the viability of this particular setup. Also, I'm not sure what kind of supernatural weapons Hera could use.

Athena may work, but I don't wanna roast her too much, it's not wise.

Though, take it from me, a Hellenist.
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:18 am

This hypothetical has cast me down a rabbit hole in terms of looking through Greek mythology, and from what I've seen, there is almost certainly a disturbingly large amount of contemporary fanfiction.

Agree with those saying inventing a new one might've worked better.
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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:25 am

If a God's power is so small that he can not stop a man from stealing it, then he's no God at all.
Last edited by Michel Meilleur on Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:14 am

Michel Meilleur wrote:If a God's power is so small that he can not stop a man from stealing it, then he's no God at all.


So you're saying in the story, Artemis wasn't really a goddess?

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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:19 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Michel Meilleur wrote:If a God's power is so small that he can not stop a man from stealing it, then he's no God at all.


So you're saying in the story, Artemis wasn't really a goddess?

Yes, indeed. Having powers that can be stolen means that the title of "God" is a rather hollow one which means that the authority that the Pantheon hold is a rather spurious too and that the whole system should probably be reworked.

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