What do you athesists have to say to that

[Coccygia]

Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

What, the Lord's name is Jealous? (I thought it was Jehovah or Yahweh or sumpin like that) What a dopey name! You expect me to worship a deity like that? What's he jealous about, anyway? He's God!

[Person012345]

which is yet another bit of wiggle room eh?

if the minute details were so important to god, wouldnt he have spelled out the rules in an unambiguous manner?

What is?

And he did:
For thou shalt worship no other god;

no thats not what he said.

he said "you shall have no gods before me"

Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

and he didnt even say it IN ENGLISH.

so how are we to know how accurate the english translation of a greek translation of a hebrew oral tradition really is?

True to a degree, however, "the translation might be wrong" when talking about the book that is the entire and sole evidence of what god wanted for earth and indeed that he even exists (you might think he'd have made them take some care translating it) does not constitute "wiggle room".

However, it also doesn't matter how much "wiggle room" you have, if god is real it's either what he meant or he didn't. I would be placing bets on he meant "don't worship other gods" but you can gamble that he meant to give you "wiggle room". Oh wait, that would defeat the entire point of joining all the other religions to eliminate the risk.

why the hell am I still arguing this?

[Ermarian]

I would rather live my life beliveing that their is a God and dieing only to find out their isn't than believing that their isn't and dieing to find out thier is

The point you are repeating was first formulated by Blaise Pascal in the 17th century and is known as "Pascal's Wager". It can be refuted in three easy ways:

1.) There is absolutely an opportunity cost to following a religion. Faith isn't just about belief, like rooting for a sports team. It is about a whole different lifestyle, following religious laws, obeying religious leaders, devoting time and part of your life to things like going to church, not doing things that may be beneficial (eg. learning science) or life-saving (receiving blood transfusions, abortion, etc.). You do not have "nothing to lose" by joining a religion.

2.) An omniscient God knows exactly what you believe and why. Do you think she is going to value it particularly highly when someone says he believes in God "just in case"? It is rather opportunistic, and none of the religious fables and apocrypha I've seen indicate God (any monotheistic god really) being patient with opportunists. Some of the more mischievous trickster gods with a sense of humor, maybe, but they're probably not going to be that offended if you don't believe in them, either.

3.) There are over a hundred religions even without counting different denominations, and some of them have a large number of gods. Which of them are you going to believe in? You're running a terrible risk by not believing in thousands of gods that may well exist, and not worshiping the one you do believe in in the hundreds of other ways taught by different denominations. You might think you can maximize your odds by following all these religions, but aside from the fact that you'd spend your entire life on religion "just in case" (see point one) practically all monotheist religions have exclusivity clauses, where you can't join while still a member somewhere else.

These three points are what demolishes Pascal's Wager - the wager of belief is neither cost-free (religious law), nor risk-free (multiple religions) nor effective (God doesn't like a smartass).

Got another argument?

[Central World Alliance]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

[Akosha]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

I repeat:
Do you suppose that your god will be better pleased by your hypocritical, self-interested, feigned and half-assed supplication, or by my honest and sincere unbelief?

Surely you must hold your god in higher esteem than that?

[Dyakovo]

I would rather live my life beliveing believing that their there is a God and dieing only to find out their there isn't than believing that their there isn't and dieing to find out their there is

Good for you?

[The Corparation]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

So the reason that you worship god is to have someone to thank If you win the lottery?

[Satirius]

I would rather live my life beliveing that their is a God and dieing only to find out their isn't than believing that their isn't and dieing to find out thier is

As an atheist, I have this to say:

Good Lord, use the spellcheck.

[Aerenion]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

I disagree: He created an argument that was entirely flawed. Firstly, if god rewards people for saying that they believ in him simply because it's a safe bet, rather than for actually believing in him, then he probably isn't as smart a god as people make him out to be. I was always that you aren't supposed to be able to trick a deity. Secondly, Pascal assumes that the only two possibilities are atheism and christianity, when in fact there are hundreds upon hundreds of other options. If you actually make a grid with all the world's religions on both the top horizontal and the left vertical, assuming that the top is what you believe and the left is the "true religion," it becomes apparent that Unitarian Universalist Agnosticism is actually the safest bet, which is more or less the opposite of what Pascal was trying to say.

[Straughn]

I would rather live my life beliveing that their is a God and dieing only to find out their isn't than believing that their isn't and dieing to find out thier is

What do i have to say to that?
As many others have, or will ... /grammarnazi

Other than that, sure whatever. I'll make up a couple and we can get em together for a nice cozy tea time, and they can share their feelings and some fingerpaintings! It'll be so fresh and satisfying!

[The Corparation]

I would rather live my life beliveing that their is a God and dieing only to find out their isn't than believing that their isn't and dieing to find out thier is

As an atheist, I have this to say:

Good Lord, use the spellcheck.

This is sig worthy.

[Autumn Wind]

Exodus 23:13
Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

The Bible itself mentions the names of other gods. Is reciting the bible blasphemous?

[Straughn]

Exodus 23:13
Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

The Bible itself mentions the names of other gods. Is reciting the bible blasphemous?

Yeah, an argument could be made for that.

[Ashmoria]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

because if i were a believer i would think that god bothers to rig games of chance?

[Coccygia]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

OK, he was smart. So what? Smart people can be idiots too, especially when it comes to religion. His argument doesn't hold water. It rests on the misuse of the concept of infinity. It is pretty much the philosophical equivalent of dividing by zero. You could use Pascal's wager to justify anything. I could say, "Gimme all your money, I'll get you into heaven.""Why should I?" "Hey, even if there's even the smallest chance, it's a good bet, right? Gimme your money. OK, half. That's a better deal than a lotta guys give ya."

[Straughn]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

because if i were a believer i would think that god bothers to rig games of chance?

It runs with deception and despair, so that's not so far out of line with the Abramic ones ...

[Central World Alliance]

Really I want peoples thoughts and you guys are using cheap spellcheck comments

[Buffett and Colbert]

Sucky god if he cares more about you believing in him out of fear rather than love or whatever the crap it is that is preached nowadays.

But I'm sure this has been said in the thread already.

[Ashmoria]

Really I want peoples thoughts and you guys are using cheap spellcheck comments

its quite possible to go back and fix bad spelling.

[The Corparation]

Really I want peoples thoughts and you guys are using cheap spellcheck comments

People have been giving their thoughts, although everyone could use a little more spellcheck in their life.

[Satirius]

Really I want peoples thoughts and you guys are using cheap spellcheck comments

No spellcheck="hey guys I'm incredibly lazy and I do not care what comes out of my mind"

[Central World Alliance]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

I repeat:
Do you suppose that your god will be better pleased by your hypocritical, self-interested, feigned and half-assed supplication, or by my honest and sincere unbelief?

Surely you must hold your god in higher esteem than that?

That is a good point and i respect your religon (or lack therefore of). I'm not tring to convert anyone. I'm just trying to see what people think.

[Tmutarakhan]

I would rather live my life beliveing believing that their there is a God and dieing only to find out their there isn't than believing that their there isn't and dieing to find out their there is

Good for you?

"dying" is not spelled "dieing" either. You missed that one twice.

[Ashmoria]

AllI'm saying is Blaise Pascal was a smart man. And it gives you something/someone to thank when something good happens. ie I just won the lottory thank God! instead of Whooohooo?

I repeat:
Do you suppose that your god will be better pleased by your hypocritical, self-interested, feigned and half-assed supplication, or by my honest and sincere unbelief?

Surely you must hold your god in higher esteem than that?

That is a good point and i respect your religon (or lack therefore of). I'm not tring to convert anyone. I'm just trying to see what people think.

what pascall was saying, in effect, was "give it a try, what can it hurt?"

and adding in a bit of game theory that doesnt fit well in the modern world.

in today's world his analysis doesnt get one bit father than "what god, what religion?" before you see that "give it a try" is a mine field of guessing what the right try might be.

[Coccygia]

I recall not to long ago an entire thread got derailed because the OP misspelled "dying" as "dyeing".