Punisher Task Force vs Organised Crime in New York City

[Kannap]

Please consider the following hypothetical

Absolutely not

A team of 5 elite US special forces operators (with lots of field op experience) form a death squad ("Punisher Task Force") and show up in New York City.

They should be outlawed and imprisoned if they kill anybody.

Their objective is to kill off every single member of organised crime in New York City (they have a large and comprehensive hit list).

They should be outlawed and imprisoned if they kill anybody

All 5 operators are 100% committed to this objective and are fanatical in that they will do anything and everything to accomplish the mission

They should be outlawed and imprisoned if they kill anybody

(including offing civilians if necessary).

They should be outlawed and imprisoned if they kill anybody

The Punisher Task Force has the following additional advantages which they are aware of:
1. Law enforcement will stand down and not intervene with the activities of the Punisher Task Force. If the police are nearby, called or summoned in a situation where the Punisher Task Force is in action, they will magically ignore the situation and walk away.

You somehow managed to render law enforcement even more useless than they are in reality, I'm impressed.

2. The Punisher Task Force have a free 500,000 USD in cash which they can use to buy weapons legal and illegal (completely untraceable). If they need more money than that it will have to come out of pocket or they will have to steal the money.

3. They have functional fake IDs to use for this mission.

Can't magically create weapons out of their ass? This hypothetical was short on a budget of imagination, I see.

They operate with the following limitations:
1. They cannot leave New York City until and unless all targets have been eliminated or have left New York City.
2. While it is acceptable to have some civilian collateral casualties (innocents killed), if this number exceeds 100 they fail the mission (and they do not want to fail the mission). The task force members are aware of how many civilians die at all times.

If they kill 100 people they should be outlawed and imprisoned for 100 lifetimes. Which, I assume because this hypothetical universe routinely sounds like utter Hell incarnate, they have to live through and endure all 100 lifetimes in prison.

Aside, the allowance to be able to kill 99 innocent people just to maybe hit one target is disgustingly negligent.

Now presumably, it will not be possible for the Punisher Task Force to simply get all of NYC's organised crime in a single place and just off them with a single trap. What will likely happen, is that they take out some of the big players (or maybe they will start with lower level thugs) but at some point, some elements of organised crime will realise:

"Hey this warning thing, it's a serious deal and something's off because the police don't care."

At which point NYC's crime groups might work together to try and eliminate the Punisher Task Force (before they themselves get wiped off).

Here I like to imagine some guy they're chasing running into Jersey while they're chasing him and they immediate stop and turn around like he doesn't exist because they're not allowed to leave NYC or have jurisdiction outside of NYC. Then this guy, let's call him Tony, calls all his buddies and they just move out of the city and continue running operations from the Jersey side of the river or move operations to an entirely new city entirely, I hear Houston's ripe with opportunity.

[Kannap]

Remember how upset people were when that one UPS driver being held hostage by jewelry store robbers was killed during a shootout with the police?

Now imagine the public outrage when the actual rules of engagement are "killing innocent bystanders is acceptable"...

Last I heard, nothing's happened to any of those officers for that so, uh, maybe it's already the rules of engagement.

Complete negligence during that shootout tbf, with cops not only shooting at a vehicle housing a hostage but also using civilian vehicles with other people in them as cover (making them targets) rather than, ya know, their own vehicles.

[Kannap]

My super elite soldiers have a huge budget and they're going to complete their mission no matter what and they don't even care about civilian casualties, but they're still the good guys and the police won't stop them and they can take out, like, 10 armed guys without even needing weapons.

But if Batman gets involved, he has to play FAIR!

Batman isn't relevant to the hypothetical.

NYC? That's Spiderman, baby. He's gonna stop these five bad guys before you can finish cooking your ready-in-90 seconds Ben's Original ready rice

[Ethel mermania]

Batman isn't relevant to the hypothetical.

NYC? That's Spiderman, baby. He's gonna stop these five bad guys before you can finish cooking your ready-in-90 seconds Ben's Original ready rice

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

[Eahland]

Batman isn't relevant to the hypothetical.

NYC? That's Spiderman, baby. He's gonna stop these five bad guys before you can finish cooking your ready-in-90 seconds Ben's Original ready rice

Hell, NYC is like half the Marvel universe. All of the Netflix Marvel shows — including Actual The Punisher Who's Only Nominally A "Hero" But Still Not Half As Bad As These Dickholes — were NYC-based. So in addition to Spidey, we got the Punisher, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, the Daughters of the Dragon (and that other douchecanoe they named the show after for some reason)... the Fantastic Four, Doctor Strange, Captain America... Cloak and Dagger (though the recent TV version relocated them to Nawlins), Moon Knight...

(To quote my nephew: "Only Moon Knight can save us now!")

And that's not to mention villains like the Kingpin who have a real personal stake in this.

None of them are going to stand for a bunch of psychos coming into town and committing indiscriminate mass murder. Like I pointed out before, these guys are just begging to be on the wrong end of Actual The Punisher's origin story.

[The Two Jerseys]

NYC? That's Spiderman, baby. He's gonna stop these five bad guys before you can finish cooking your ready-in-90 seconds Ben's Original ready rice

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

Am I the only one who thinks that Metropolis always felt more like an ersatz Chicago?

[Ethel mermania]

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

Am I the only one who thinks that Metropolis always felt more like an ersatz Chicago?

The initial drawings were apparently toronto.Toronto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(comics)

[South Americanastan]

Am I the only one who thinks that Metropolis always felt more like an ersatz Chicago?

The initial drawings were apparently toronto.Toronto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(comics)

Superman is Canadian, I guess. Fits with the history of Canadians going batshit when it's time for any form of combat.

[Kannap]

NYC? That's Spiderman, baby. He's gonna stop these five bad guys before you can finish cooking your ready-in-90 seconds Ben's Original ready rice

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

A google search suggests Gotham City is in New Jersey. Metropolis seems to have been originally based on Toronto's skyline and - in recent years - comics seem to be unable to agree on whether its in New York state or Del- fecking Delaware?

[Autumn Wind]

Isn’t this kind of how the Los Zetas cartel started?

[Eahland]

Am I the only one who thinks that Metropolis always felt more like an ersatz Chicago?

The initial drawings were apparently toronto.Toronto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(comics)

Toronto is an ersatz Chicago, so it checks out.

Fun fact: Most of the Due South TV show, which was set in Chicago, was actually filmed in Toronto. Except for the episode where they went to Toronto, which they filmed in Chicago.

I think Chicago is "Hub City" in the DC universe, though. DC geography is always weird, though, because they've got all these fictional cities that are obvious stand-ins for real ones, but then sometimes they have the real ones, too. And then sometimes the fictional ones drift around, like Star City is ersatz San Francisco, according to my DC Adventures setting book, but the CW Arrow one appears to be somewhere in the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic.

[Ethel mermania]

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

A google search suggests Gotham City is in New Jersey. Metropolis seems to have been originally based on Toronto's skyline and - in recent years - comics seem to be unable to agree on whether its in New York state or Del- fecking Delaware?

Gotham in the comic book world for some God forsaken reason is in NJ on the Delaware River.

The statue of liberty is in Metropolis harbor, and the daily planet is published in New York state which kind of nails down nyc.

So as it applies to the scenario, I dont think superman would tolerate the punishers means as put in the OP. therefore superman shuts down the whole operation as soon as Lois lane starts to flirt with one of the Seals.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Isn’t this kind of how the Los Zetas cartel started?

No, the Zetas were an Army unit that deserted and became cartel hitmen before eventually breaking away and forming their own standalone cartel.

[Ethel mermania]

The initial drawings were apparently toronto.Toronto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_(comics)

Toronto is an ersatz Chicago, so it checks out.

Fun fact: Most of the Due South TV show, which was set in Chicago, was actually filmed in Toronto. Except for the episode where they went to Toronto, which they filmed in Chicago.

I think Chicago is "Hub City" in the DC universe, though. DC geography is always weird, though, because they've got all these fictional cities that are obvious stand-ins for real ones, but then sometimes they have the real ones, too. And then sometimes the fictional ones drift around, like Star City is ersatz San Francisco, according to my DC Adventures setting book, but the CW Arrow one appears to be somewhere in the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic.

Real life Toronto fills in for many American cities in film and television. New York Notably as well.

[Kannap]

A google search suggests Gotham City is in New Jersey. Metropolis seems to have been originally based on Toronto's skyline and - in recent years - comics seem to be unable to agree on whether its in New York state or Del- fecking Delaware?

Gotham in the comic book world for some God forsaken reason is in NJ on the Delaware River.

The statue of liberty is in Metropolis harbor, and the daily planet is published in New York state which kind of nails down nyc.

So as it applies to the scenario, I dont think superman would tolerate the punishers means as put in the OP. therefore superman shuts down the whole operation as soon as Lois lane starts to flirt with one of the Seals.

At the same time that Lois Lane begins flirting with one of the five perps, another one begins to realize Clark Kent looks awfully like Superman but with glasses.

Multiple dominoes bringing Superman's extraterrestrial vengeance. Think of the drama Ethel!

[Qhevak]

I have no idea why everyone's talking about the NYC Italian Mafia here, they have a few hundred dudes total. Of the 15,000 estimated gang members in New York most are part of narcotic traffickers like Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS-13 etc. Anyway, Punisher morons lose hard. Even if they could somehow even find all the gang members, it's just straight impossible to win close quarters gunfights against such an insane numbers disparity. Even then these gangs should have hundreds of members with military training statistically speaking, and once they realize the police are ignoring this conflict they'll start seriously upping their firepower, setting up ambushes etc.

[Thermodolia]

Gotham has always referred to nyc. Except in comic books for some reason.

Metropolis was always NYC however now how would superman feel about this would be a better question

Am I the only one who thinks that Metropolis always felt more like an ersatz Chicago?

I always assumed it was Philly

[Thermodolia]

I have no idea why everyone's talking about the NYC Italian Mafia here, they have a few hundred dudes total. Of the 15,000 estimated gang members in New York most are part of narcotic traffickers like Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS-13 etc. Anyway, Punisher morons lose hard. Even if they could somehow even find all the gang members, it's just straight impossible to win close quarters gunfights against such an insane numbers disparity. Even then these gangs should have hundreds of members with military training statistically speaking, and once they realize the police are ignoring this conflict they'll start seriously upping their firepower, setting up ambushes etc.

Ya I pretty much mentioned that they’d draw the idiots into a trap and pick them off from the towers above

[The Two Jerseys]

A google search suggests Gotham City is in New Jersey. Metropolis seems to have been originally based on Toronto's skyline and - in recent years - comics seem to be unable to agree on whether its in New York state or Del- fecking Delaware?

Gotham in the comic book world for some God forsaken reason is in NJ on the Delaware River.

The statue of liberty is in Metropolis harbor, and the daily planet is published in New York state which kind of nails down nyc.

So as it applies to the scenario, I dont think superman would tolerate the punishers means as put in the OP. therefore superman shuts down the whole operation as soon as Lois lane starts to flirt with one of the Seals.

The map on Wikipedia has Gotham as the entire bayside area of Cumberland County.

In other words, quite possibly the worst place to build a city, because it's a literal swamp.

[Ethel mermania]

Gotham in the comic book world for some God forsaken reason is in NJ on the Delaware River.

The statue of liberty is in Metropolis harbor, and the daily planet is published in New York state which kind of nails down nyc.

So as it applies to the scenario, I dont think superman would tolerate the punishers means as put in the OP. therefore superman shuts down the whole operation as soon as Lois lane starts to flirt with one of the Seals.

The map on Wikipedia has Gotham as the entire bayside area of Cumberland County.

In other words, quite possibly the worst place to build a city, because it's a literal swamp.

Grows nice tomatoes though

[Heloin]

Gotham in the comic book world for some God forsaken reason is in NJ on the Delaware River.

The statue of liberty is in Metropolis harbor, and the daily planet is published in New York state which kind of nails down nyc.

So as it applies to the scenario, I dont think superman would tolerate the punishers means as put in the OP. therefore superman shuts down the whole operation as soon as Lois lane starts to flirt with one of the Seals.

The map on Wikipedia has Gotham as the entire bayside area of Cumberland County.

In other words, quite possibly the worst place to build a city, because it's a literal swamp.

When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a city on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the richest city in all of New Jersey.

[Ethel mermania]

The map on Wikipedia has Gotham as the entire bayside area of Cumberland County.

In other words, quite possibly the worst place to build a city, because it's a literal swamp.

When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a city on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the richest city in all of New Jersey.

But father, I want to sing.

[Eahland]

The map on Wikipedia has Gotham as the entire bayside area of Cumberland County.

In other words, quite possibly the worst place to build a city, because it's a literal swamp.

When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a city on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up.

Okay, so everyone in it laughed themselves to death after they were gassed by an insane clown. But the buildings remained intact, and eventually new suckers moved in, so a step in the right direction! But then animate swamp plants dragged it down into the swamp. So I built a fifth one! But the bridges sank into the swamp, and it was cut off from the mainland and ruled over by weirdly-themed crime boss warlords until the federal government nuked it to contain the madness. So I built a sixth one. And despite the rampaging toxic waste monsters from being built in a radioactive swamp, the weirdly-themed crime bosses who somehow all survived the nuke that destroyed everything else, the insane clown, the animate and now radioactive swamp plants, and all the other wackos, like the guy who thinks shooting people with a freeze ray will bring back his dead wife, it's somehow still standing!

And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the richest city in all of New Jersey.

But, Father, I want to be a bat!

And you're dead, you can't tell me I can't anymore.

[The Holy Therns]

I’ve always known Gotham to be NYC. Either way batman goes where he wants

He’s not in play in this hypothetical and if he were, he wouldn’t operate with any plot armor.

Then your five gun idiots shouldn't get any plot armor either. Which would've been the only way they'd last two days.

[Chernoslavia]

Even Marvel doesn't think Punisher is a good idea and he's their character.

And good lord, it's okay to kill 99 randos in your hunt for one mafia member? And this clock resets for each mission? The cure is worse than the disease (sort of the point of most of the Punisher comics if you'd read them...)

Never mind that you somehow managed to sleep through all of 2020, but the idea of police doing extra-judicial killings has not been the most popular thing in the world, primarily because the country retains a lot of its racial animosity and it disproportionately affects the black population. Even with the so-called safe guards we have, regular ass police serving a warrant managed to gun down an ER technician in her sleep. It was not okay. In what world do you think mowing down 99 innocent people is going to be a thing anyone is okay with?

And that's not even getting to the fact that extra-judicial killings are not a thing a developed country does. You know how people talk about Obama's drone strikes? It's not because they're part of the pilots union and think that bombs should only come from aircraft with people in them. It's because he used one to kill an American citizen in a war zone. Iffy at best in a war zone (I'd argue still not okay) but on American soil? Fuuuuuuuuck no.

Oh, and they're out there committing crimes (buying untracable guns...I mean, why if they've been given a license to kill) and stealing to support their gun habit. Jesus christ.

This is a gobsmackingly stupid idea that has nothing to do with effectiveness and everything to do with a fantasy life of shooting down bad guys and still being a 'good guy'.

Try to learn the difference between action movies and real life. For fuck's sake.

Holy shit dude, it's just one of IM's ''what would you do/think would happen'' scenarios, he isn't trying to justify vigilantism. And no fucking shit Marvel doesn't actually condone stuff depicted in their comics? Uh doi!

Try to learn the difference between THIS and an actual political debate about vigilante cops unlawfully killing gangsters. For fuck's sake.