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Coronavirus Thread VII: Jagged Little Pill (READ OP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should those wilfully unvaccinated against COVID-19 receive a lower priority for hospital treatment?

YES, ALWAYS - vaccination should be a basic precaution to protect your health and that of society
209
26%
YES, BUT JUST FOR COVID-19 - you shouldn't get COVID treatment if you don't want to be safe from it
118
15%
NO, NEVER - healthcare should be based on the patient's need, not their circumstances
465
59%
 
Total votes : 792

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:35 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kowani wrote:lololololol

A hospital system in Arkansas is making it a bit more difficult for staff to receive a religious exemption from its COVID-19 vaccine mandate. The hospital is now requiring staff to also swear off extremely common medicines, such as Tylenol, Tums, and even Preparation H, to get the exemption.

The move was prompted when Conway Regional Health System noted an unusual uptick in vaccine exemption requests that cited the use of fetal cell lines in the development and testing of the vaccines. This was significantly disproportionate to what we've seen with the influenza vaccine," Matt Troup, president and CEO of Conway Regional Health System, told Becker's Hospital Review in an interview Wednesday.

"Thus," Troup went on, "we provided a religious attestation form for those individuals requesting a religious exemption," he said. The form includes a list of 30 commonly used medicines that "fall into the same category as the COVID-19 vaccine in their use of fetal cell lines," Conway Regional said.

The list includes Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, aspirin, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, ibuprofen, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, albuterol, Preparation H, MMR vaccine, Claritin, Zoloft, Prilosec OTC, and azithromycin. Conway Regional notes that the list includes commonly used and available drugs but that it is not an all-inclusive list of such medicines.

Employees are asked to attest that they "truthfully acknowledge and affirm that my sincerely held religious belief is consistent and true" and that they do not and will not use the medications and any others like them.

The intent of the form is twofold, Troup says. First, the hospital wants to ensure that staff members are sincere in their stated beliefs, he said, and second, it wants to "educate staff who might have requested an exemption without understanding the full scope of how fetal cells are used in testing and development in common medicines."

Troup says that employees who do not sign the attestation form will be granted a provisional exemption, which is only temporary. They may be asked to sign the attestation later and, as the attestation notes, if they fail to get an exemption or a vaccine, they face disciplinary action, including termination.

In an interview with an NBC-affiliated outlet in Arkansas, Troup noted that only about 5 percent of the hospital system's staff had filed for a religious or medical exemption and that the rest of the workforce is partially or fully vaccinated.

“A lot of this, I believe, is a hesitancy about the vaccine, and so that’s a separate issue than a religious exemption,” he said.


The list can not be correct. Most of the drugs listed predate fetal cell lines. For example Aspirin has been around since the 1800's. Kayopectate since the early 1900's


This depends a bit on the testing. Time to talk to our pharmaceutical friends I guess for more info.

I mean, I can imagine that they test a new batch of the product on fetal cell lines to see if their batch is correct. But this is speculation. I do know there is a QA step when creating medicines, I just do not know what it entails.
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Canada CA
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Postby Canada CA » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:35 am

Ifreann wrote:
Canada CA wrote:Nope, and I don't care anyway.

We all had a few days off after anyways, and are now back to work and college.

What rock have you been living under to not know the basic facts about this virus?

The rock where I have a job and responsibilities, and where I don't spend all my time obsessively researching everything about the virus.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:36 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What rock have you been living under to not know the basic facts about this virus?

The rock where I have a job and responsibilities, and where I don't spend all my time obsessively researching everything about the virus.


It's weird that you present it like knowing basic stuff like the incubation period would require obsessive research.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:36 am

Canada CA wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
Of course you don't care. You're incapable of caring. And "a few days off" isn't enough given the incubation period and the asymptomatic carriers.

I'm incapable of caring about the hysteria of people who would rather live by hiding inside all the time, sanitizing their groceries and wearing hazmat suits everywhere.


Ironic that you talk about hysteria while posting blatant exagerrations like that.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:38 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kowani wrote:lololololol

A hospital system in Arkansas is making it a bit more difficult for staff to receive a religious exemption from its COVID-19 vaccine mandate. The hospital is now requiring staff to also swear off extremely common medicines, such as Tylenol, Tums, and even Preparation H, to get the exemption.

The move was prompted when Conway Regional Health System noted an unusual uptick in vaccine exemption requests that cited the use of fetal cell lines in the development and testing of the vaccines. This was significantly disproportionate to what we've seen with the influenza vaccine," Matt Troup, president and CEO of Conway Regional Health System, told Becker's Hospital Review in an interview Wednesday.

"Thus," Troup went on, "we provided a religious attestation form for those individuals requesting a religious exemption," he said. The form includes a list of 30 commonly used medicines that "fall into the same category as the COVID-19 vaccine in their use of fetal cell lines," Conway Regional said.

The list includes Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, aspirin, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, ibuprofen, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, albuterol, Preparation H, MMR vaccine, Claritin, Zoloft, Prilosec OTC, and azithromycin. Conway Regional notes that the list includes commonly used and available drugs but that it is not an all-inclusive list of such medicines.

Employees are asked to attest that they "truthfully acknowledge and affirm that my sincerely held religious belief is consistent and true" and that they do not and will not use the medications and any others like them.

The intent of the form is twofold, Troup says. First, the hospital wants to ensure that staff members are sincere in their stated beliefs, he said, and second, it wants to "educate staff who might have requested an exemption without understanding the full scope of how fetal cells are used in testing and development in common medicines."

Troup says that employees who do not sign the attestation form will be granted a provisional exemption, which is only temporary. They may be asked to sign the attestation later and, as the attestation notes, if they fail to get an exemption or a vaccine, they face disciplinary action, including termination.

In an interview with an NBC-affiliated outlet in Arkansas, Troup noted that only about 5 percent of the hospital system's staff had filed for a religious or medical exemption and that the rest of the workforce is partially or fully vaccinated.

“A lot of this, I believe, is a hesitancy about the vaccine, and so that’s a separate issue than a religious exemption,” he said.


The list can not be correct. Most of the drugs listed predate fetal cell lines. For example Aspirin has been around since the 1800's. Kayopectate since the early 1900's

The list is of drugs that use foetal cell lines in development or testing.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:39 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
The list can not be correct. Most of the drugs listed predate fetal cell lines. For example Aspirin has been around since the 1800's. Kayopectate since the early 1900's


This depends a bit on the testing. Time to talk to our pharmaceutical friends I guess for more info.

I mean, I can imagine that they test a new batch of the product on fetal cell lines to see if their batch is correct. But this is speculation. I do know there is a QA step when creating medicines, I just do not know what it entails.


Like you said,, I would think it would be possible that current tests of the products could use stem lines. ( though its not my field, and really don't know).

Many of the meds on the list predate fetal stem lines. And in the past didn't require that form of testing
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:40 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
This depends a bit on the testing. Time to talk to our pharmaceutical friends I guess for more info.

I mean, I can imagine that they test a new batch of the product on fetal cell lines to see if their batch is correct. But this is speculation. I do know there is a QA step when creating medicines, I just do not know what it entails.


Like you said,, I would think it would be possible that current tests of the products could use stem lines. ( though its not my field, and really don't know).

Many of the meds on the list predate fetal stem lines. And in the past didn't require that form of testing


Meanwhile the COVID vaccines aren't produced using fetal stem cell lines either.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:41 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
The list can not be correct. Most of the drugs listed predate fetal cell lines. For example Aspirin has been around since the 1800's. Kayopectate since the early 1900's

The list is of drugs that use foetal cell lines in development or testing.


The current testing for QC, its possible. For the manufacturing or development, things, like aspirin, tums, benydrl,. No not at all.
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:42 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What rock have you been living under to not know the basic facts about this virus?

The rock where I have a job and responsibilities, and where I don't spend all my time obsessively researching everything about the virus.

This virus has been the biggest news story in the world for almost two years. Avoiding learning the basics about covid would take more time and effort than obsessively researching it.
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Canada CA
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Postby Canada CA » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:45 am

Ifreann wrote:
Canada CA wrote:The rock where I have a job and responsibilities, and where I don't spend all my time obsessively researching everything about the virus.

This virus has been the biggest news story in the world for almost two years. Avoiding learning the basics about covid would take more time and effort than obsessively researching it.

Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:47 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:This virus has been the biggest news story in the world for almost two years. Avoiding learning the basics about covid would take more time and effort than obsessively researching it.

Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.


The regular news on mars?
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:48 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:This virus has been the biggest news story in the world for almost two years. Avoiding learning the basics about covid would take more time and effort than obsessively researching it.

Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.

That's definitely a lie.
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Canada CA
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Postby Canada CA » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:50 am

Ifreann wrote:
Canada CA wrote:Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.

That's definitely a lie.

Nope. Why would they routinely mention the incubation period of this virus?

All they do is plug the vaccine wherever they can and feature the same old "This anti-vaxxer said no to the vaccine, then died of the virus!!!1!" line.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:50 am

Ifreann wrote:
Canada CA wrote:Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.

That's definitely a lie.

Maybe not if he watches OANN which is a right wing "news" outlet which will basically report misinformation about the virus when they mention it at all.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:52 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's definitely a lie.

Maybe not if he watches OANN which is a right wing "news" outlet which will basically report misinformation about the virus when they mention it at all.


Its still mentioned.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:53 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's definitely a lie.

Nope. Why would they routinely mention the incubation period of this virus?

All they do is plug the vaccine wherever they can and feature the same old "This anti-vaxxer said no to the vaccine, then died of the virus!!!1!" line.

And that's a problem because...
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:55 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's definitely a lie.

Nope. Why would they routinely mention the incubation period of this virus?

Do you need them to mention it routinely to absorb that information?

All they do is plug the vaccine wherever they can and feature the same old "This anti-vaxxer said no to the vaccine, then died of the virus!!!1!" line.

So you've only been watching the news for the last few months and somehow missed everything from the end of 2019 to the start of 2021. Some kind of coma, I assume. Congratulations on your recovery.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:58 am

Ifreann wrote:
Canada CA wrote:Nope. Why would they routinely mention the incubation period of this virus?

Do you need them to mention it routinely to absorb that information?

All they do is plug the vaccine wherever they can and feature the same old "This anti-vaxxer said no to the vaccine, then died of the virus!!!1!" line.

So you've only been watching the news for the last few months and somehow missed everything from the end of 2019 to the start of 2021. Some kind of coma, I assume. Congratulations on your recovery.

We have sunk so far down the post-modern rabbit hole that there are now alt-facts, alt-truths, and alt-realities.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:00 am

Vassenor wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Like you said,, I would think it would be possible that current tests of the products could use stem lines. ( though its not my field, and really don't know).

Many of the meds on the list predate fetal stem lines. And in the past didn't require that form of testing


Meanwhile the COVID vaccines aren't produced using fetal stem cell lines either.

The involvement of cells from aborted fetuses, OTOH, were the reason the USCCB raised a pillar of salt over J&J six months ago. Not that all of the bishops were salty about it then...
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:17 am

I don't watch the news at all.

I do read articles about Covid (and other things too, of course), and this thread, but I could just as easily not do either of those things.

It is not hard to not see public messaging. If you don't have a street address and use an ad bloicker, you are effectively immune to any public messaging of any kind.

It's completely ridiculous that Canada CA doesn't know anything about Covid's incubation periods... though I will freely admit I don't remember the exact details, it's like five days with delta, iirc, but even given that I know the whole point of fortnightly isolation periods is to beat the incubation period... but you're being completely naive if you think it's not possible for someone to not know this.

https://adage.com/article/campaign-trai ... acy/301429

https://www.forbes.com/sites/valleyvoic ... ccf2873c6a

I'd get you a more direct story about the demise of traditional media's implications for public communications strategies but I'm having a really hard time finding anything directly about that. It's probably buried in throwaway sentences or stuff that a quick Google search isn't going to reward (because people don't want to hear that the internet as a concept, rather than Big Tech/social networks, might have been bad for social life, so such takes aren't going to rise to the top).

https://blog.id.com.au/2020/population/ ... w-zealand/

That's about languages. But these kinds of takes, which are incredibly common, are missing my point in a huge way... majority language speakers can be just as, if not more, excluded from civic communications simply by following the path of least resistance. The only reason to expect that they wouldn't be is that they talk to someone else who still gets that information. That is, Word of Mouth. Which, in a pandemic situation, is a likelihood that goes waaaay down.

As I'm sure some of you also understand, the internet can be a really difficult place to find geographically relevant stuff. The only satisfying site I've ever found for NZ material is r/newzealand and as far as I'm concerned, that subreddit is about as positively disposed to immigration as Trump.
Last edited by Forsher on Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:26 am

Vassenor wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Like you said,, I would think it would be possible that current tests of the products could use stem lines. ( though its not my field, and really don't know).

Many of the meds on the list predate fetal stem lines. And in the past didn't require that form of testing


Meanwhile the COVID vaccines aren't produced using fetal stem cell lines either.


Not entirely true. J&J uses them in production. Pfizer and moderna used them in efficacy testing - but indeed not in development or production.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:28 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's definitely a lie.

Nope. Why would they routinely mention the incubation period of this virus?


Because that is the reason for most measures people object to most?
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:43 am

Canada CA wrote:
Ifreann wrote:This virus has been the biggest news story in the world for almost two years. Avoiding learning the basics about covid would take more time and effort than obsessively researching it.

Not really. I watch the regular news and haven't seen it mentioned once.


Well you see Cleetus, if you look beyond the family farm and listen to news other than hearsay from uncle-brother Jimbo, there's actually an entire world out there.
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Postby Izandai » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:45 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's definitely a lie.

Maybe not if he watches OANN which is a right wing "news" outlet which will basically report misinformation about the virus when they mention it at all.

They said "regular news" not "batshit conspiracy-mongering".
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Postby Page » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:47 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Meanwhile the COVID vaccines aren't produced using fetal stem cell lines either.


Not entirely true. J&J uses them in production. Pfizer and moderna used them in efficacy testing - but indeed not in development or production.


The whole fetus thing is ridiculous anyway. It's not like they're acquiring the fetal cells in a way that promotes demand for abortion. I mean I think the whole thing with China killing dogs is horrifying but if someone just came in and took the dead dogs' bodies and said "we can use this to cure cancer", assuming they weren't paying the dog killers to incentivize more dead dogs, I recognize that despite the ick factor it would be idiotic to reject the medicine developed.
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