Should the State of Israel have a right to exist?

[The Military State of the Galapagos]

The real question should be whether the Republic of Ireland has the right to exist.

States don't have rights.

*Confederate anthem intensifies*

[Ifreann]

States don't have rights.

*Confederate anthem intensifies*

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

[Australian rePublic]

Out of dozens of Arab states, why are we asking if the only Jewish state in the world has a right to exist?

[Vassenor]

Out of dozens of Arab states, why are we asking if the only Jewish state in the world has a right to exist?

So what ethnic cleansing is the Arab community being allowed to get away with without criticism?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Out of dozens of Arab states, why are we asking if the only Jewish state in the world has a right to exist?

So what ethnic cleansing is the Arab community being allowed to get away with without criticism?

Um the Jewish one that's been going on for 80 odd years?

[Vassenor]

So what ethnic cleansing is the Arab community being allowed to get away with without criticism?

Um the Jewish one that's been going on for 80 odd years?

I said Without criticism.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Um the Jewish one that's been going on for 80 odd years?

I said Without criticism.

It's certainly one ethnic cleansing whom very little attention is afforded to in the West.

[Vassenor]

I said Without criticism.

It's certainly one ethnic cleansing whom very little attention is afforded to in the West.

And how many of those states have movements explicitly trying to ban criticism of their acts by foreign entities?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's certainly one ethnic cleansing whom very little attention is afforded to in the West.

And how many of those states have movements explicitly trying to ban criticism of their acts by foreign entities?

You know sometimes talking to you is like talking to GMS. Only less verbose thank Jove.

[Vassenor]

And how many of those states have movements explicitly trying to ban criticism of their acts by foreign entities?

You know sometimes talking to you is like talking to GMS. Only less verbose thank Jove.

I'm serious. Where are the movements like the one intended to criminalise protest boycotts of Israeli goods?

[Ifreann]

Out of dozens of Arab states, why are we asking if the only Jewish state in the world has a right to exist?

Probably because all the occupied territories which are illegitimately under Israeli control naturally tend to raise questions about the legitimacy of Israel in general.

[Salus Maior]

So what ethnic cleansing is the Arab community being allowed to get away with without criticism?

Um the Jewish one that's been going on for 80 odd years?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

Where are Israelis being ethnically cleansed? Give some sources.

[Fahran]

The real question should be whether the Republic of Ireland has the right to exist.

States don't have rights.

Nations and communities do have a right to self-determination though.

[Fahran]

So what ethnic cleansing is the Arab community being allowed to get away with without criticism?

When they ethnically cleansed 800,000 Jews in a period of thirty years to the point that their Jewish communities were mostly permanently eradicated. Or what's been happening to the Copts, Assyrians, Kurds, and Amazigh for the past seventy years...

[Fahran]

And how many of those states have movements explicitly trying to ban criticism of their acts by foreign entities?

The Saudis literally murdered and dismembered a Saudi-American guy for criticizing them. But go off.

[Fahran]

Probably because all the occupied territories which are illegitimately under Israeli control naturally tend to raise questions about the legitimacy of Israel in general.

Funny. They never raised any questions about the legitimacy of Egypt or Jordan.

[Andronya]

Does Israel have a right to exist? Yes, absolutely.
But so does Palestine.

What I hate about the Israel-Palestine conflict is how the Israelis always act as if they where the victims, even though that's clearly not the case. We're well over 75 years past WW2, jews aren't the victims they used to be, and now they are clearly victimizing the Palestinians.
Make no mistake, that's how countries are formed, it's not pretty, but it's a part of reality. Both Israelis and Palestinians are right to fight for their land and their people.

I just won't tolerate the "We're the victims! It's self-defence!" from the Israelis.

[Fahran]

I just won't tolerate the "We're the victims! It's self-defence!" from the Israelis.

A lot of Israel's collective mindset is about never becoming victims again, and, if they were on the losing side, they would be victims again. I agree that both of the countries have a right to exist, but I don't really think a lot of people appreciate the mindsets among Israelis and Palestinians. Literally almost everyone in these countries is a descendant of refugees. The majority of Jews in Palestine had a parent or a grandparent who was forced to flee due to Arab mobs and/or Arab governments. The majority of Arabs in Palestine have family or friends who were forced to flee due to Jewish mobs and/or the Israeli government.

[Ifreann]

States don't have rights.

Nations and communities do have a right to self-determination though.

People have rights. Neither the Republic of Ireland nor Israel is a person.

---

Probably because all the occupied territories which are illegitimately under Israeli control naturally tend to raise questions about the legitimacy of Israel in general.

Funny. They never raised any questions about the legitimacy of Egypt or Jordan.

Didn't they? Personally I'm not familiar with the state of the discourse in the 1960s, not having been alive at the time.

[Fahran]

People have rights. Neither the Republic of Ireland nor Israel is a person.

But the Irish and Jews are people, and their communities possess certain collective rights. This isn't really controversial. It's been enshrined in international law several times arguably and the notion that collective rights exist is a bedrock of left-wing ideology more generally at present. It's one of the most important arguments indigenous peoples make for instance.

Didn't they? Personally I'm not familiar with the state of the discourse in the 1960s, not having been alive at the time.

I mean the Palestinians weren't super thrilled, but, beyond them, nobody really made a massive fuss from what I've read. Certainly, nobody wrote articles asserting we should dis-establish Egypt. Because that would have been stupid.

[Ifreann]

People have rights. Neither the Republic of Ireland nor Israel is a person.

But the Irish and Jews are people, and their communities possess certain collective rights. This isn't really controversial. It's been enshrined in international law several times arguably and the notion that collective rights exist is a bedrock of left-wing ideology more generally at present. It's one of the most important arguments indigenous peoples make for instance.

Lots of things get enshrined in international law without making any difference to Israel. The illegitimacy of gaining territory by conquest, for example.

Didn't they? Personally I'm not familiar with the state of the discourse in the 1960s, not having been alive at the time.

I mean the Palestinians weren't super thrilled, but, beyond them, nobody really made a massive fuss from what I've read. Certainly, nobody wrote articles asserting we should dis-establish Egypt. Because that would have been stupid.

I guess anarchism wasn't invented until the 90s.

[Fahran]

Lots of things get enshrined in international law without making any difference to Israel. The illegitimacy of gaining territory by conquest, for example.

Israel intends to gain them through a conclusive peace settlement. Like that's the official policy. Or, at least, it was until 2017.

I guess anarchism wasn't invented until the 90s.

Nobody important has ever cared about what anarchists have had to say about international politics except in so far as it justified bullying them with batons and prison time. Their views are not conducive to functional politics or functional society. The only time they become important is when they stab the Empress of Austria-Hungary or do the terrorism.

[Dreria]

Israel does not have a right to exist
‘
Many are saying as much.

Eventually we have to do something about their
Attacks on Christian Churches, it’s
Terrible
I do
Not think that it is acceptable, it’s a
Giant problem. We need to

Get hamas some more support to defend against Israeli
Rampages.
Another part of the solution is to
Neuter Israel by
Oxpelling its servants from positions of power in our
Lands. Eventually we will
Attain freedom for ourselves and our brothers
.

“Like” if you got the message

[Ifreann]

Lots of things get enshrined in international law without making any difference to Israel. The illegitimacy of gaining territory by conquest, for example.

Israel intends to gain them through a conclusive peace settlement. Like that's the official policy. Or, at least, it was until 2017.

So clearly international law is irrelevant to Israel.

I guess anarchism wasn't invented until the 90s.

Nobody important has ever cared about what anarchists have had to say about international politics except in so far as it justified bullying them with batons and prison time. Their views are not conducive to functional politics or functional society. The only time they become important is when they stab the Empress of Austria-Hungary or do the terrorism.

I'll try to keep in mind in future that when you seem to be speaking about people generally, you're actually only speaking about a relatively tiny number of "important" people.

[Elwher]

But the Irish and Jews are people, and their communities possess certain collective rights. This isn't really controversial. It's been enshrined in international law several times arguably and the notion that collective rights exist is a bedrock of left-wing ideology more generally at present. It's one of the most important arguments indigenous peoples make for instance.

Lots of things get enshrined in international law without making any difference to Israel. The illegitimacy of gaining territory by conquest, for example.

Show me any country that is not made up of territory gained by conquest. The only difference is how far back the conquest was.