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Should the State of Israel have a right to exist?

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:20 am

Sure. Every nationstate has the right to exist, that includes Palestine
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:25 am

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The Greater Gothic Empire
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Postby The Greater Gothic Empire » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:33 am

I have said it many times and I will say this again—the ethnostate of Israel has no 'right' to exist. Building on this clause you should answer, "for what reason?" I have long disdained the 'two-state solution' as it more likely gives a lot of chances for Zionists and sympathizers to continue with their settler colonialist expansions and their war crimes.

Deacarsia wrote:No, the Zionist régime in Palæstine has no right to exist, nor should it.

And be replaced with a Crusader State that treats Muslims as second-class citizens?
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:44 am

A state's right to exist comes from it's own ability to enforce it's existence. If it can't do that, RIP. Israel has proven it has the ability to enforce it's existence even in the face of overwhelming odds.

Ideally though both Israel and Palestine should be abolished and replaced with a Levantine Federation.
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:46 am

The Greater Gothic Empire wrote:I have said it many times and I will say this again—the ethnostate of Israel has no 'right' to exist. Building on this clause you should answer, "for what reason?" I have long disdained the 'two-state solution' as it more likely gives a lot of chances for Zionists and sympathizers to continue with their settler colonialist expansions and their war crimes.

Deacarsia wrote:No, the Zionist régime in Palæstine has no right to exist, nor should it.

And be replaced with a Crusader State that treats Muslims as second-class citizens?


Ironically the Crusader States treated Muslims rather well (bad form to oppress the locals that outnumber you), leaving them alone as long as they paid their taxes. Muslims preferred Crusader rule to that of the neighboring Muslim rulers. This is why there were never any Muslim rebellions in the Crusader States. I imagine they were quite disappointed when the Crusaders ended up getting the boot.
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Dar Al-Badw
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Postby Dar Al-Badw » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:50 am

The Palestinians have a right to their homes, the Jews had (and have) a right to a Jewish state.
They were victims of genocide at the hands of the German Nazi government so why not give them an area of Germany that voted for the Nazis (after kicking the Nazis out of cause)?
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:53 am

Dar Al-Badw wrote:The Palestinians have a right to their homes, the Jews had (and have) a right to a Jewish state.
They were victims of genocide at the hands of the German Nazi government so why not give them an area of Germany that voted for the Nazis (after kicking the Nazis out of cause)?


Because that almost certainly would have led to the Nazis remaining popular forever.
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Dar Al-Badw
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Postby Dar Al-Badw » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:54 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Dar Al-Badw wrote:The Palestinians have a right to their homes, the Jews had (and have) a right to a Jewish state.
They were victims of genocide at the hands of the German Nazi government so why not give them an area of Germany that voted for the Nazis (after kicking the Nazis out of cause)?


Because that almost certainly would have led to the Nazis remaining popular forever.

Then the Americans could kill them. Better than taking someone else’s country.
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The Jamesian Republic
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Postby The Jamesian Republic » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:03 am

Dar Al-Badw wrote:The Palestinians have a right to their homes, the Jews had (and have) a right to a Jewish state.
They were victims of genocide at the hands of the German Nazi government so why not give them an area of Germany that voted for the Nazis (after kicking the Nazis out of cause)?


I agree with the first statement but I don’t think the allies were interested in doing what you described in the second statement.
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Postby Rio Cana » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:06 am

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Dar Al-Badw
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Postby Dar Al-Badw » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:08 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Dar Al-Badw wrote:The Palestinians have a right to their homes, the Jews had (and have) a right to a Jewish state.
They were victims of genocide at the hands of the German Nazi government so why not give them an area of Germany that voted for the Nazis (after kicking the Nazis out of cause)?


I agree with the first statement but I don’t think the allies were interested in doing what you described in the second statement.

Indeed they weren’t interested because the Germans were White and the high-ranking Americans were also White, whereas the Palestinians were Arabs.

Have to capitalise all ethnic terms.
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Galimencia
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Postby Galimencia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:14 am

If going by your logic, the first country that should be stripped of their right to exist is the US. I mean literally, it was created when a bunch of angry kids decided to kick out their mother from their house. Then these rowdy kids proceeded on to kick out other people from their own houses and capture those because of the fact that these bunch of kids believe in some weird thing called 'manifest destiny'.
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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:18 am

Lady Victory wrote:A state's right to exist comes from it's own ability to enforce it's existence. If it can't do that, RIP. Israel has proven it has the ability to enforce it's existence even in the face of overwhelming odds.

Ideally though both Israel and Palestine should be abolished and replaced with a Levantine Federation.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:58 am

New haven america wrote:No states should exist.

A united humanity is a much better option but people apparently don't like each other.

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Forhillia
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Postby Forhillia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:02 am

The land does exist, but Palestine and Israel should both exist and stop fighting. No one likes war.
Last edited by Forhillia on Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maricarland
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Postby Maricarland » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:55 am

Ideally we have a stateless society. However, people seem to want their states because of territorial insanity. I think it would be easier to defang the state (abolish police, abolish prison, replace standing militaries with purely reserve militaries, and have open borders) than to abolish the state directly.

Under our current system, I would say that the state of Israel does the right to exist, but so does Palestine, and unfortunately they overlap in terms of territory, so either they agree to merge into one state (with a government that both the Israeli and the Palestinians can agree to, and provides equal rights to both), or they agree to have two separate states (and Israel stops trying to claim all the territory in the area as theirs), or they agree to have two governments of equal power both rule over the same area with constant negotiation when disputes arise (with a prohibition on violence). Palestine should be fully recognized internationally, the U.S. should stop providing military aid to Israel, Israel should be made to honor their agreements with Palestine, and both sides (mostly Israel) should be made to answer for any war crimes.
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Postby Kanadorika » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:57 am

Galimencia wrote:If going by your logic, the first country that should be stripped of their right to exist is the US. I mean literally, it was created when a bunch of angry kids decided to kick out their mother from their house. Then these rowdy kids proceeded on to kick out other people from their own houses and capture those because of the fact that these bunch of kids believe in some weird thing called 'manifest destiny'.

Those kids learned from their mother; the world champion of kicking people from their houses.
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Saralonia
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Postby Saralonia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:02 am

I personally believe neither Palestine nor Israel controlling the entirety of their claims is going to end well, thus I believe in a 1 state solution of creating a secular republic with a decentralized structure so the whole area can benefit from each other's growth and in which both Jews & Arabs have a right to exist as equals.

Ideally of course I would rather there be no state anywhere in the world, but pragmatically then a single secular state seems like the best answer-
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Postby Wormfodder Delivery » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:09 am

My solution is still to give the Tibetans the "holy land" and the jews and Palestinians can divide up the area that Tibet was in.
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New Bradenia Ghost
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Postby New Bradenia Ghost » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:15 am

I know Israel technically shouldn't exist in the land known as Palestine, but I mean, that area was also where the Jews escaped Egypt, and where the Jews lived until their land was taken over by the Imperialist Islamic Caliphates' Campaigns of Imperialism, so technically the Jews have the right to the land along with the Muslims

Another thing is that... where else could they go, like I know you would say Europe, but one thing is that if a Jewish state was founded in Europe, they would be taking land from certain countries (like Poland, Czechia and Germany), and also would probably face discrimination from ex-Nazis and probably Catholics (especially in Poland)

I think Israel should have the right to exist, because mainly it's a state for Jews (technically making it a unique state), and that it's in a land where the Jews lived
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:19 am

Course it fricking should. I dont like the shit they do to the Palestinians but Israel should continue to exist as a country, ideally alongside with Palestine but fat chance of that happening.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Deblar
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Postby Deblar » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:23 am

Sure, but you know what would be based? A unified secular Levant where neither Jews or Arabs are prioritized over each other and everyone has equal representation and rights. Based, but unfortunately unrealistic with the current circumstances of the world
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Maricarland
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Postby Maricarland » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:32 am

The problem with a one state solution (as elegant a solution as I think it is) is that Palestinians do not trust that a government that has a Israeli majority will honor the rights of Palestinians, and Israelis do not trust that a government with a Palestinian majority will honor the rights of Israelis. Neither side is willing to let the other side have a majority of the power after an election.

Also a one state solution does not resolve religious concerns, like the Temple of the Mount (where a holy Mosque currently stands, but Jewish scripture says that the Jews will one day reclaim the land and rebuild their temple that was destroyed 2000 years ago.

Also, you have Zionists who believe that for the Jewish people to have safety from their long history of persecution they need an ethno-nation homeland of just Jews to be a safe haven, but by that logic every one of the thousands of living ethnicities today need their own ethno-state, which is obviously impractical (and ridiculous when you consider there are no true ethno-states on Earth with maybe 2 - 4 exceptions, and there are a lot of people of mixed or unknown ethnicities).

All of that only scratches the surface of all the disputes. Ultimately it is up to the Palestinians and Israeli people to collectively decide what kind of solution they want. All we can do is provide a forum for negotiation, pressure them for peace, enforce agreements and international law, and stop enabling Israel's aggression and nuclear weapons program.
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Postby Koletsia » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:34 am

New Bradenia Ghost wrote:I know Israel technically shouldn't exist in the land known as Palestine, but I mean, that area was also where the Jews escaped Egypt, and where the Jews lived until their land was taken over by the Imperialist Islamic Caliphates' Campaigns of Imperialism, so technically the Jews have the right to the land along with the Muslims

You realise that the Israelites slaughtered the native inhabitants even then, don't you? It's written right in the Bible that they entered the land of Canaan as what were basically immigrants (non-natives) and ethnically cleansed the Canaanites.

New Bradenia Ghost wrote:I think Israel should have the right to exist, because mainly it's a state for Jews (technically making it a unique state), and that it's in a land where the Jews lived

Then by that same standard should a Frenchman be able to say he only wants white catholics as immigrants into his country to keep his country traditionally French? This is the practice of the State of Israel which you appear to find acceptable.
Last edited by Koletsia on Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Bradenia Ghost
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Postby New Bradenia Ghost » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:27 pm

Koletsia wrote:
New Bradenia Ghost wrote:I know Israel technically shouldn't exist in the land known as Palestine, but I mean, that area was also where the Jews escaped Egypt, and where the Jews lived until their land was taken over by the Imperialist Islamic Caliphates' Campaigns of Imperialism, so technically the Jews have the right to the land along with the Muslims

You realize that the Israelites slaughtered the native inhabitants even then, don't you? It's written right in the Bible that they entered the land of Canaan as what were basically immigrants (non-natives) and ethnically cleansed the Canaanites.


No, I never knew that because I know the Israelites entered the land, and their land overtaken by the Muslims in their atrocious campaign, but never found out they massacred the Canaanites (kudos to giving me some knowledge ;) ), also I don't read the Bible because I am not religious

New Bradenia Ghost wrote:I think Israel should have the right to exist, because mainly it's a state for Jews (technically making it a unique state), and that it's in a land where the Jews lived

Then by that same standard should a Frenchman be able to say he only wants white Catholics as immigrants into his country to keep his country traditionally French? This is the practice of the State of Israel which you appear to find acceptable.[/quote]

Yeah I never heard that ever, and I don't know a lot of stuff on Israel, so don't blame me for not knowing

ALSO, to mention the part you left out, on where else they could've went, I am right on that, if they had land in Europe, they could've faced discrimination from ex-Nazis or Catholics
Last edited by New Bradenia Ghost on Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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