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Should the State of Israel have a right to exist?

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The Hazar Amisnery
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Postby The Hazar Amisnery » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 pm

I didn't know you could un-exist a country.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:55 am

The Hazar Amisnery wrote:I didn't know you could un-exist a country.


No?

Let's do a thought experiment.

To start, can you just show me where the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is on a map?
WASSER IST LEBEN

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Azania-
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Postby Azania- » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm

Vassenor wrote:
ImperialRussia wrote:Again false god


That's just, like, your opinion, man.

He's out of his element.

Grave_n_idle wrote:
The Hazar Amisnery wrote:I didn't know you could un-exist a country.


No?

Let's do a thought experiment.

To start, can you just show me where the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is on a map?

Too soon.
Last edited by Azania- on Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Suriyanakhon
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:43 pm

ImperialRussia wrote:
Ortaviostan wrote:
Your god is bad.

And your false god is going to drag you down


As opposed to supporting a genocidal state lol.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:21 pm

ImperialRussia wrote:God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.


Yeah, none of that is true.

Israel literally has been attacked before by proper states, coalitions of states even.

And further, Israel doesn't enjoy any favoritism from God as a country, or a people for that matter.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:23 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
ImperialRussia wrote:God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.


Yeah, none of that is true.

Israel literally has been attacked before by proper states, coalitions of states even.

And further, Israel doesn't enjoy any favoritism from God as a country, or a people for that matter.
all of it is true, and it's not over: after those three days have passed, it will be wing wednesday, all pounds of wings half priced after 3:00PM.
Last edited by Kubra on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:06 pm

ImperialRussia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
My god is a lesbian your argument is invalid

Again false god

Silence false prophet.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:51 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
The Hazar Amisnery wrote:I didn't know you could un-exist a country.


No?

Let's do a thought experiment.

To start, can you just show me where the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is on a map?


And how many died? The thing about wishing to “un-exist” Israel means willing to tolerate, or even wanting what would likely be millions of deaths.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:42 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:No?

Let's do a thought experiment.

To start, can you just show me where the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is on a map?

Can I put the map over my chest and point to my heart? :p
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:45 pm

Novus America wrote:And how many died? The thing g about wishing to “in-exist” Israel means willing to tolerate, or even wanting what would likely be millions of deaths.

Really, any suggestion that Israel cease to exist is more or less genocidal or a pie-in-the-sky fantasy given the previous ethnic tensions and history of the region. There's really no reason to humor such talk. We can't even rely on the group of people who make such arguments to not harbor Antisemites on a routine basis, to the point that they'll harass Jewish people and engage in Holocaust denial/the desecration of memorials. Why would any Jewish person trust a vision offered by such folks then?
Last edited by Fahran on Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:08 pm

Fahran wrote:
Novus America wrote:And how many died? The thing g about wishing to “in-exist” Israel means willing to tolerate, or even wanting what would likely be millions of deaths.

Really, any suggestion that Israel cease to exist is more or less genocidal or a pie-in-the-sky fantasy given the previous ethnic tensions and history of the region. There's really no reason to humor such talk. We can't even rely on the group of people who make such arguments to not harbor Antisemites on a routine basis, to the point that they'll harass Jewish people and engage in Holocaust denial/the desecration of memorials. Why would any Jewish person trust a vision offered by such folks then?

This comment reminded me of a student who was asked if she would condemn Hamas which she refused and than asked if she supported the extermination of the Jewish people, she said she did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiC ... iftingFeet
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:11 pm

Azania- wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
No?

Let's do a thought experiment.

To start, can you just show me where the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is on a map?

Too soon.

It's been 29 years.

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ImperialRussia
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Postby ImperialRussia » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:18 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
ImperialRussia wrote:God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.


Yeah, none of that is true.

Israel literally has been attacked before by proper states, coalitions of states even.

And further, Israel doesn't enjoy any favoritism from God as a country, or a people for that matter.

Lol god hasn’t left Israel he will never let it go he just makes a new Israel

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ImperialRussia
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Postby ImperialRussia » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:21 pm

Fahran wrote:
Novus America wrote:And how many died? The thing g about wishing to “in-exist” Israel means willing to tolerate, or even wanting what would likely be millions of deaths.

Really, any suggestion that Israel cease to exist is more or less genocidal or a pie-in-the-sky fantasy given the previous ethnic tensions and history of the region. There's really no reason to humor such talk. We can't even rely on the group of people who make such arguments to not harbor Antisemites on a routine basis, to the point that they'll harass Jewish people and engage in Holocaust denial/the desecration of memorials. Why would any Jewish person trust a vision offered by such folks then?

The Jewish people are better off nationalists

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ImperialRussia
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Postby ImperialRussia » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:30 pm

Genivaria wrote:
ImperialRussia wrote:Again false god

Silence false prophet.

The god she believes in is a hypocrite and there is false because will never make himself a creation man that failed the test of Adam and lead a god to sex and lewdness that will cause hypocrisy that will cause demons to laugh human begins for the one true messiah that will redeem your sins in forgiveness in repentance from which lord Jesus put himself on a cross so we can have are sins forgiven in true repentance in confessing are sins to god. Rev, 20 Destruction of Pagan Nations Kings of Kings Lords of Lords our god Jesus Christ.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:30 pm

ImperialRussia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Silence false prophet.

The god she believes in is a hypocrite and there is false because will never make himself a creation man that failed the test of Adam and lead a god to sex and lewdness that will cause hypocrisy that will cause demons to laugh human begins for the one true messiah that will redeem your sins in forgiveness in repentance from which lord Jesus put himself on a cross so we can have are sins forgiven in true repentance in confessing are sins to god. Rev, 20 Destruction of Pagan Nations Kings of Kings Lords of Lords our god Jesus Christ.

*yawn*
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:48 pm

Genivaria wrote:This comment reminded me of a student who was asked if she would condemn Hamas which she refused and than asked if she supported the extermination of the Jewish people, she said she did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiC ... iftingFeet

Yeppers. This is why I'm adamant that Jewish people not put down their shield without concessions that lead to permanent peace and security.

On the same note, the lack of a nation-state has been a complete disaster for Palestinians, Kurds, the Amazigh, and numerous other groups in the region. While ethnic and religious pluralism would be nice, the one proven way of conserving communities, at least on some level, appears to be giving them the means to sustain and defend themselves.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:21 am

ImperialRussia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Yeah, none of that is true.

Israel literally has been attacked before by proper states, coalitions of states even.

And further, Israel doesn't enjoy any favoritism from God as a country, or a people for that matter.

Lol god hasn’t left Israel he will never let it go he just makes a new Israel


You DO understand you now have the same position on Israel that Iran has?
WASSER IST LEBEN

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:24 am

Fahran wrote:
Genivaria wrote:This comment reminded me of a student who was asked if she would condemn Hamas which she refused and than asked if she supported the extermination of the Jewish people, she said she did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiC ... iftingFeet

Yeppers. This is why I'm adamant that Jewish people not put down their shield without concessions that lead to permanent peace and security.


And this is why the Israel situation isn't getting solved.

You're talking about "concessions that lead to permanent peace and security", but the people you would have to convince had their land stolen and have lived under illegal occupation for half a century.
WASSER IST LEBEN

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:29 am

ImperialRussia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Yeah, none of that is true.

Israel literally has been attacked before by proper states, coalitions of states even.

And further, Israel doesn't enjoy any favoritism from God as a country, or a people for that matter.

Lol god hasn’t left Israel he will never let it go he just makes a new Israel

smh the Jews dont even pray to the same godbeing as you.

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Ithalian Empire
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Postby Ithalian Empire » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:35 pm

ImperialRussia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Silence false prophet.

The god she believes in is a hypocrite and there is false because will never make himself a creation man that failed the test of Adam and lead a god to sex and lewdness that will cause hypocrisy that will cause demons to laugh human begins for the one true messiah that will redeem your sins in forgiveness in repentance from which lord Jesus put himself on a cross so we can have are sins forgiven in true repentance in confessing are sins to god. Rev, 20 Destruction of Pagan Nations Kings of Kings Lords of Lords our god Jesus Christ.


I too hate the Anti-Christ and refuse to drink the corn syrup.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:25 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:And this is why the Israel situation isn't getting solved.

If the only reason the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict persists is because Jews refuse to dissolve their state and accept a return to the past, then I don't mind if the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict persists. You do not owe other people your death, your subjugation, or your helplessness, especially not when many of those people are still advocating for genocide. Mind you, you're ignoring the complexity of the geopolitical situation, but, yes, fighting for self-determination is absolutely worth it given what came before. Both sides in the conflict believe as much. The main disagreement is about where the boundary should lie.

Grave_n_idle wrote:You're talking about "concessions that lead to permanent peace and security", but the people you would have to convince had their land stolen and have lived under illegal occupation for half a century.

If Palestinians oppose the two-state solution and insist on an Arab state exclusively, to the detriment of all non-Arab ethnic groups, there's not going to be peace. It's as simple as that. But, thankfully, that's still a minority and extremist position.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:44 am

Fahran wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:And this is why the Israel situation isn't getting solved.

If the only reason the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict persists is because Jews refuse to dissolve their state and accept a return to the past, then I don't mind if the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict persists. You do not owe other people your death, your subjugation, or your helplessness, especially not when many of those people are still advocating for genocide. Mind you, you're ignoring the complexity of the geopolitical situation, but, yes, fighting for self-determination is absolutely worth it given what came before. Both sides in the conflict believe as much. The main disagreement is about where the boundary should lie.

Grave_n_idle wrote:You're talking about "concessions that lead to permanent peace and security", but the people you would have to convince had their land stolen and have lived under illegal occupation for half a century.

If Palestinians oppose the two-state solution and insist on an Arab state exclusively, to the detriment of all non-Arab ethnic groups, there's not going to be peace. It's as simple as that. But, thankfully, that's still a minority and extremist position.


You admit you're happy with an illegal occupation and the enforced relocation of a displaced people.

I honestly don't care about your opinions. You just haven't earned it.
WASSER IST LEBEN

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:21 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:You admit you're happy with an illegal occupation

I don't consider Israel's existence to constitute an illegal occupation. If you want to discuss the 1967 borders, which became a Palestinian talking point only after they became defunct due to the Arab states trying to overturn the 1948 borders through violence, that's a conversation we can have. A significant reason that the peace process has halted is because the language in related UN Resolutions didn't spell out a solution and the Palestinians refuse to accept anything aside from the 1967 borders as a starting point for negotiations. They view the numerous wars they've lost as "compromises" from their original vision for Palestine. This is something Mahmoud Abbas has outright said as well.

Israel, on the other hand, will outright refuse to return East Jerusalem or somewhere around five percent of the West Bank to Palestine without equal concessions or population/land transfers, since doing otherwise leads to the religious persecution of Jewish pilgrims (which occurred prior to 1967), the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the West Bank (which is de facto a demand of the Palestinians), and several other negative consequences with no compensation - not even war indemnities.

There's not really any practical approach to the process keeping these positions in mind.

Grave_n_idle wrote:and the enforced relocation of a displaced people.

Everyone in this conflict supports the enforced relocation of displaced people. What do you think the removal of the illegal settlements is when we cut through the paperwork, moral platitudes, and legal jargon? The goal of such removals and displacements should serve the peace process though, and allow for fewer removals and displacements in the future.

Grave_n_idle wrote:I honestly don't care about your opinions. You just haven't earned it.

Fair enough. I don't really have any intention of "earning" someone's engagement with an argument, especially not on an internet forum. I don't mean that to be disrespectful or ugly. It's just not something I care to invest a lot of effort into.
Last edited by Fahran on Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:34 pm

At the very least Israel needs to pick an ambassador to the UN who knows how to use photoshop.

Because the current one wants us to believe someone in Palestine managed to smuggle a fifty foot tall Nazi flag into the country.
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