Should the State of Israel have a right to exist?

[The United Colonies of Earth]

I pose this question because as an anachronistic imperialist experiment it seems very strange that we allow them to slaughter the native inhabitants like the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites thousands of years ago just so some whites from Europe can role play as ancient people. Seems kind of strange to me. What do you think?

They are ancient people. They've been around for millennia, and only slaughter the native inhabitants when rocket batteries, rocks and guns are within a hundred meters of them. Not when they're trying to set up a zealot nationalist state (glares at Bar Kokhba and the Sicarii).
Humans probably did stranger when there were 900,000 protostate villages anyway and the Jews were kicked out by the Romans and converted under pressure from later monotheists. After nationalists tried to genocide them, I think they deserve a place of their own to call home- actions of the government aside. All states are just army mobilization centers anyway, and armies are known for their love of using force on anything in sight.

[Fahran]

I'm not overlooking it at all. It has nothing to do with the point I made.

There were no attempts made to negotiate, and, even if the Jews at the time had reached out, they would have been rejected. Not that they were likely in a negotiating mood given the violence back and forth that preceded the partition. There was no popular feeling for it and, even today, Israelis tend to support more concessions that the Palestinians. The simple fact of the matter is that after 1939 war or surrender was always going to be the option offered to Jews in the Mandate. It likely would have been the same option offered to Arabs, except the partition did actually give them land.

[Fahran]

Considering that Israel bases its claims to the land as being the descendants of the actual Hebrews; which is a false claim; I'd say no, Israel does not have a legitimate right to exist.

So you have no idea what you're talking about? Cool.

yes

just like palestine has the right to exist

Finally, a sane opinion.

[Coboldia]

I pose this question because as an anachronistic imperialist experiment it seems very strange that we allow them to slaughter the native inhabitants like the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites thousands of years ago just so some whites from Europe can role play as ancient people. Seems kind of strange to me. What do you think?

Biased OP

Anachronistic? It´s a part of the world with 10,000 years of settled history. That makes anything over there a little anachronistic. Policy should be based on the here and now. That includes millions of Jewish Israelis who want to live there.

Imperialist? Nope. Militarist maybe.

Experiment: not after decades of being there. Not anymore.

Slaughter native inhabitants? I agree that there is an apartheid going on. But I have not yet heard that Israel is doing a Holocaust to the Palestineans.

The archeology of the region suggests that the Israelis merged with the Canaanites. Since Hebrew is basically Canaanite with some loanwords and vowel shifts, I´m enclined to agree.

Those "whites from Europe" are the descendants of people displaced from the very country, by force, in 70 A.D. Modern Israelis aren´t "role-playing" any more than for example Liberians are role-playing as black Africans.

This ^

[Grave_n_idle]

No, I get that that is your point. And I'm saying, it's a terrible point, and the rest of the world agrees.

From a purely objective and mechanical point, yes, all rights are maintained through either words or swords - there's nothing objective and inherent about a right to anything.

But, as a civilized (at least on paper) 21st century collective of humans, we've decided we don't want 'empire by conquest' to be an acceptable institution. And we've proved that by maintaining - more or less - a warm-to-cool Cold War - more or less - for a century.

And we want it that way.

"We" aren't a collective and pretending that there is some sort of consensus among "modern humans" is willful ignorance.

Nope. 'We' definitely are a collective. A series of collectives, even.

Tell yourself you're not by all means, then go try to claim the products in your local store in the name of your sovereign citizenship. Get back to me in 8 to 10 years when one of the collectives we're part of decides to let you.

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm not overlooking it at all. It has nothing to do with the point I made.

There were no attempts made to negotiate...

Exactly. That's the point. Partition was forced on local residents driving them out of their previous locations, and their previous properties were then seized and reallocated. There's a dispossessed people and an illegal occupation, and you're acting like you don't understand why some of the locals are a bit miffy.

[ImperialRussia]

Yes lmao

A sovereign right even.

But that doesn´t excuse its crimes against humanity...

Yes it does excuse it there on gods side there army is on gods side yes humanity doesn’t have a say there on gods side

[ImperialRussia]

Israel is a recognized nation that protected by god Israel shouldn’t be recognized for there war crimes it may offend god if the international community goes to war to Israel

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Israel is a recognized nation that protected by god Israel shouldn’t be recognized for there war crimes it may offend god if the international community goes to war to Israel

I seriously don't know if this is a joke.

[Vassenor]

A sovereign right even.

But that doesn´t excuse its crimes against humanity...

Yes it does excuse it there on gods side there army is on gods side yes humanity doesn’t have a say there on gods side

Welp, time to absolve the Nazis for the Holocaust given that they claimed that god was on their side too.

[Hwiteard]

No state has the "right to exist," only an obligation to defend itself, alone or with help. If Israel can't defend itself, it will cease to exist. Morality has nothing to do with it. Aggression, on the other hand...

[Vassenor]

No state has the "right to exist," only an obligation to defend itself, alone or with help. If Israel can't defend itself, it will cease to exist. Morality has nothing to do with it. Expansion, on the other hand...

And what is Israel defending itself from by levelling civilian tower blocks with airstrikes and forcibily evicting Palestinians from their homes?

[Yama to hitobito]

Israel is State Apartheid.

Racist towards Arabs

Steal Lands , Destroy Palestinians House

Support By Daddy Murica Regime

Cry like Baby

War crime Denial

Build The Temple for Daddy Anti Christ

CuCk Capitalist and


The End .

[Hwiteard]

No state has the "right to exist," only an obligation to defend itself, alone or with help. If Israel can't defend itself, it will cease to exist. Morality has nothing to do with it. Aggression, on the other hand...

And what is Israel defending itself from by levelling civilian tower blocks with airstrikes and forcibily evicting Palestinians from their homes?

Those are acts of aggression, obviously.

[Cameroi]

lineage based nations and faith based nations may be something of a mistake.
religious histories are seldom entirely honest.
all that being said, the secular state of israel has exactly the same right to exist, as any other modern secular state,
closets full of skellatons not withstanding.
but not in its current form without being more open to religious and ideological diversity,
the latter as it once was at the time of its founding.
as with nearly all modern nations,
it needs to be more considerate of the values and perspectives, and yes, even limited soverignty, of previous inhabitants of the same space.
the many of the arguements against are not otherwise entirely unreasonable, though their motivation seems rather blatently to be.

as always, the only right made by two wrongs is a political right wing.
today's israel's abuse of the property and personal freedom of its former inhabitats is inexcusable,
but this no more a reason to oppose its existence then it would be were it say for example, an exclsively "christian" nation.

[Nolo gap]

what if it were a kind of united nations district of columbia (still my favorite solution)
or buddhist, daoist, or baha'i?

[Senkaku]

I pose this question because as an anachronistic imperialist experiment it seems very strange that we allow them to slaughter the native inhabitants like the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites thousands of years ago just so some whites from Europe can role play as ancient people. Seems kind of strange to me. What do you think?

They are ancient people. They've been around for millennia, and only slaughter the native inhabitants when rocket batteries, rocks and guns are within a hundred meters of them.

Flying irrigation pipes and slingshots versus drones and main battle tanks, yes, it seems like a very reasonable contest (??).

Not when they're trying to set up a zealot nationalist state (glares at Bar Kokhba and the Sicarii).
Humans probably did stranger when there were 900,000 protostate villages anyway and the Jews were kicked out by the Romans and converted under pressure from later monotheists.

Why does Israeli propaganda always fall into random shitposting about antiquity instead of remaining grounded in the current conflict?

After nationalists tried to genocide them, I think they deserve a place of their own to call home- actions of the government aside.

Great, so now we have a nuclear Liberia in the Middle East— why does anyone think the American proclivity for using our undesirables to colonize their mythological “homelands” is an appropriate compensation for people who’ve faced down genocide?

All states are just army mobilization centers anyway,

There are literally states with no militaries all over the world.

and armies are known for their love of using force on anything in sight.

Well, I guess since you’ve made an essentializing and deeply pessimistic statement about human nature, we should all just give up on wanting Israel not to do genocide?

[ImperialRussia]

Israel is a recognized nation that protected by god Israel shouldn’t be recognized for there war crimes it may offend god if the international community goes to war to Israel

I seriously don't know if this is a joke.

God is no joke

[ImperialRussia]

Yes it does excuse it there on gods side there army is on gods side yes humanity doesn’t have a say there on gods side

Welp, time to absolve the Nazis for the Holocaust given that they claimed that god was on their side too.

Of course they were cursed by god for not defending there home Israel instead the Israel people lived in other nations in which they were persecuted so Britain liberate the nation of Israel from Palestine in which Israel is a recognized nation in which these events the lord Jesus works in mysterious ways. Any god will defend the Israeli people in times of war if Iran attacks Israel.

[ImperialRussia]

lineage based nations and faith based nations may be something of a mistake.
religious histories are seldom entirely honest.
all that being said, the secular state of israel has exactly the same right to exist, as any other modern secular state,
closets full of skellatons not withstanding.
but not in its current form without being more open to religious and ideological diversity,
the latter as it once was at the time of its founding.
as with nearly all modern nations,
it needs to be more considerate of the values and perspectives, and yes, even limited soverignty, of previous inhabitants of the same space.
the many of the arguements against are not otherwise entirely unreasonable, though their motivation seems rather blatently to be.

as always, the only right made by two wrongs is a political right wing.
today's israel's abuse of the property and personal freedom of its former inhabitats is inexcusable,
but this no more a reason to oppose its existence then it would be were it say for example, an exclsively "christian" nation.

The land belongs to Israel not the Muslim people there only one state solution it’s to the Jewish people that Israel claims their lands back

[ImperialRussia]

Israel is State Apartheid.

Racist towards Arabs

Steal Lands , Destroy Palestinians House

Support By Daddy Murica Regime

Cry like Baby

War crime Denial

Build The Temple for Daddy Anti Christ

CuCk Capitalist and


The End .

Barbarian Arabs vs civilized Jewish military supported and trained by god

[Vassenor]

Welp, time to absolve the Nazis for the Holocaust given that they claimed that god was on their side too.

Of course they were cursed by god for not defending there home Israel instead the Israel people lived in other nations in which they were persecuted so Britain liberate the nation of Israel from Palestine in which Israel is a recognized nation in which these events the lord Jesus works in mysterious ways. Any god will defend the Israeli people in times of war if Iran attacks Israel.

Can I get some Thousand Island with this word salad please?

[ImperialRussia]

Of course they were cursed by god for not defending there home Israel instead the Israel people lived in other nations in which they were persecuted so Britain liberate the nation of Israel from Palestine in which Israel is a recognized nation in which these events the lord Jesus works in mysterious ways. Any god will defend the Israeli people in times of war if Iran attacks Israel.

Can I get some Thousand Island with this word salad please?

What I mean by is Israeli people will be defend by our savior Jesus Christ

[Suriyanakhon]

lineage based nations and faith based nations may be something of a mistake.
religious histories are seldom entirely honest.
all that being said, the secular state of israel has exactly the same right to exist, as any other modern secular state,
closets full of skellatons not withstanding.
but not in its current form without being more open to religious and ideological diversity,
the latter as it once was at the time of its founding.
as with nearly all modern nations,
it needs to be more considerate of the values and perspectives, and yes, even limited soverignty, of previous inhabitants of the same space.
the many of the arguements against are not otherwise entirely unreasonable, though their motivation seems rather blatently to be.

as always, the only right made by two wrongs is a political right wing.
today's israel's abuse of the property and personal freedom of its former inhabitats is inexcusable,
but this no more a reason to oppose its existence then it would be were it say for example, an exclsively "christian" nation.

The land belongs to Israel not the Muslim people there only one state solution it’s to the Jewish people that Israel claims their lands back

Not all Palestinians are Muslims, many are Christians, equally mistreated by the Israeli forces. The fact that Israel manages to get the people they despise to help them subject other members of their religion to ethnic apartheid is the peak of irony.

[Immortan Khan]

The land belongs to Israel not the Muslim people there only one state solution it’s to the Jewish people that Israel claims their lands back

Not all Palestinians are Muslims, many are Christians, equally mistreated by the Israeli forces. The fact that Israel manages to get the people they despise to help them subject other members of their religion to ethnic apartheid is the peak of irony.

Palestinian Christians actually play a massive and even disproportionate role in the Palestinian resistance movement. One of the leaders of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is a Greek Orthodox Christian iirc.