Should the State of Israel have a right to exist?

[Novus America]

I would have actually preferred most Jews fleeing Europe and the Middle East be settled in Alaska and upstate New York.
But it is not about what I want. That is not necessarily what they wanted and it is too late now.

The argument over whether or not Israel was properly created is purely academic and of no real relevance to contemporary policy.

The fact if that most people living in Israel were born there, have no other home, and have the right to self determination and to continue to live in their place of birth.

And they are willing and able to defend those rights.

Now sure the Palestinian Arabs also need their rights respected (but they have to respect the Israeli’s rights as well) and that does not excuse Israeli’s actions when they are wrong.

But this whole thread is part of the problem. We just about only see “does Israel have right to exist” but we rarely see such things about other states that commit worse or parties to far more destructive conflicts.

The fact the Israeli Palestinian Arab conflict gets so much attention to others is in itself suspect.

[Novus America]

No states should exist.

A united humanity is a much better option but people apparently don't like each other.

When will the human being grow past those boundaries of "states" and unite for the common good?

There would still be a state, even if only one state. But the big issue is people have irreconcilable and mutually exclusive views of what the “common good” is. If Hamas thinks, as it does violent imposition of Islamic law as they see it is in the common good, it makes no sense for those who disagree with their violent imposition of Islamic law to agree to be ruled by them when they do not have too be.

If everyone could agree on what the “common good” maybe, but people will not do that. Nor necessarily should they.

[St Robin]

I dont think Israel should exist because of they are just plain stupid. Like theyre jews.

What is wrong with the jewish people?

[St Robin]

greedy

Awfully vague there.

I'd ask you to elaborate but I don't imagine you have much actual proof or evidence of your claims.

[Nord Vanaderus]

Cug is just correct there is no arguing

[Kinben-ism]

This is bait, innit?

I am asking sincerely.

Really?

[St Robin]

The fact that the entire ethical side of the hebrews insist upon they are "Gods Chosen People". this claim is untrue for numerous regions such as the shared ancestor of the jews, Judah was not given Gods Blessing. Second they are self centered and always say anything against them is Anti Semitic. This doesnt even make sense since that would imply that they are against the Israelites. to be anti jewish is not the same. They have stolen land and then also not even taken the correct land. The Kingdom of Israel was never controlled by Judah and the jews and was indeed controlled King Israel. They are greedy because of how much they try to devour and the self absorbed personalities and life styles they lead.

This is a common anti-Jewish narrative/argument which has been stomped so many times. The basis of this argument rides heavily on belief, whether you believe one thing or another.

There is no definitive evidence that any of this did or did not happen, especially from a non-religious standpoint. This has nothing to do with the state of Israel existing.
Attributing a negative characteristic to an entire population is quite shortminded. As you are an individual with your opinions and beliefs, so is every Jewish person. This is as harmful a view as, for example, when racists claim all black people are criminals.

[St Robin]

it has everything to do with israel considering the rulers are jews

I don't believe the purpose of this thread was to argue the legitimacy of the Jewish people. All people are legitimate and have a right to exist.

[Ortaviostan]

all of The people of the world most understand that instead of being divided we must all be united no matter of opinion (besides political opinion) there for i don't think Israel represents the jewish people well and should not exist.

[St Robin]

EVEN PEDOS???!?

Pedophiles deserve to be behind bars for the rest of their live, but I'm not an advocate for the death of other humans.

People are also not born Pedophiles, they make that choice just like any other criminal.
You cannot choose whether or not to be born Jewish.

[St Robin]

both deserve death along with their nine generations

I'm done here, obviously you're just being edgy for the attention you desperately crave.

[Ortaviostan]

Pedos are mentally ill people that deserve to work for millitaristic states

[Helliniki Katastasis]

It used to be that Judaism was a religion, not a race. However, since the establishment of Israel, the people there have created a wonderful, diverse, and unique culture that sets them apart from the world. Residing in the land that generations upon generations of their ancestors fought to reclaim. I fully support the Israeli people and state. However, violence against Arabs or anyone for that matter is disgusting and reprehensible.

Not much for an effortpost right now, just my two cents.

[Ortaviostan]

israel needs to have more diversity

[ImperialRussia]

God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.

[Azania-]

Questions like these are counterproductive. Israel exists, and it's gonna take a whole lot terrible things to undo that, something I think only special types of people would want.

[Ortaviostan]

God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.

Your god is bad.

[The Islamic Caliphate of the Balkans]

I pose this question because as an anachronistic imperialist experiment it seems very strange that we allow them to slaughter the native inhabitants like the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites thousands of years ago just so some whites from Europe can role play as ancient people. Seems kind of strange to me. What do you think?

They are whites because they were expelled by the Romans, most of them emigrated to Europe, and spent 1000 years there. Then they went back. Look at how sparsely populated was the region when they returned for god's sake.

Of course.

[Suriyanakhon]

God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.

This is weird revenge porn for a state that thinks you're a shmuck for falling for their propaganda.

[Helliniki Katastasis]

God will always defend Israel if the world attacks Israel god will curse the world with 3 days of darkness stopping time unleashing demons upon the world for three days if from those who not have the blood of Jesus Christ and keeping there church then their pet or any animal will become demon food after those three days there be nothing but famine and humans have to turn to cannibalism after the three days of darkness.

Your god is bad.

This is bordering on thread jacking, please don't make this a religion vs religion thread, there's already one of those.

[Gig em Aggies]

so about the question asked yes I believe Israel should exist.

now to my question in all these threads about Israel I always see should Israel exist should the blah blah blah but none have that I've seen questioned should the Palestinians have the right to form their own country. I mean the Kurds next door want there own nation but people don't treat them in the same way they treat Israel and the Palestinians. So what makes the Palestinians more deserving then others?

[Novus America]

Questions like these are counterproductive. Israel exists, and it's gonna take a whole lot terrible things to undo that, something I think only special types of people would want.

This sums it up quite well.

[Novus America]

I pose this question because as an anachronistic imperialist experiment it seems very strange that we allow them to slaughter the native inhabitants like the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites thousands of years ago just so some whites from Europe can role play as ancient people. Seems kind of strange to me. What do you think?

They are whites because they were expelled by the Romans, most of them emigrated to Europe, and spent 1000 years there. Then they went back. Look at how sparsely populated was the region when they returned for god's sake.

Of course.

Umm a majority (61%) of Israeli Jews are actually at least in part, of Mizrahi-Sephardi origin. So the whole “but they came from Europe” does not even work. If it mattered, because a majority of Ashkenazim in Israel are also born in Israel.
But if the Mizrahi are “white” so are the Palestinian Arabs “white”.

That whole argument is bogus. 61% of Israeli’s are actually descended from Jewish people who have lived in the Middle East for centuries.
Which ruins the whole argument that it is some just some European colonist state.

[Fahran]

Which ruins the whole argument that it is some just some European colonist state.

I mean a lot of arguments to that effect are pretty much rooted in racism anyhow. The implication, even if it goes unspoken, is that we're not who we say we are. And this in spite of the Semitic language, the longstanding narratives, a rich culture that has endured for centuries in both Israel and the Diaspora, etc. I imagine this argument would hold weight with leftists if it didn't target the perception of Jewish "whiteness." Because it is absolutely a form of othering and racial discrimination. Nevermind that, as you pointed out, a lot of the Sephardim/Mizrachim would be perceived as brown simply by virtue of their geographical locations and languages. It's funny. Even the Ashkenazim weren't really seen as white until the late 1950s. After Israel had formed.

[Novus America]

Which ruins the whole argument that it is some just some European colonist state.

I mean a lot of arguments to that effect are pretty much rooted in racism anyhow. The implication, even if it goes unspoken, is that we're not who we say we are. And this in spite of the Semitic language, the longstanding narratives, a rich culture that has endured for centuries in both Israel and the Diaspora, etc. I imagine this argument would hold weight with leftists if it didn't target the perception of Jewish "whiteness." Because it is absolutely a form of othering and racial discrimination. Nevermind that, as you pointed out, a lot of the Sephardim/Mizrachim would be perceived as brown simply by virtue of their geographical locations and languages. It's funny. Even the Ashkenazim weren't really seen as white until the late 1950s. After Israel had formed.

True, it is based in no small part of racism, that being “too white” (whatever that means) would somehow make them lesser. It is in large part of a Manichaen and racist standpoint prevalent amongst many of the left that “whites” always oppress “browns” and thus “whiteness” is bad.

Even though “white” vs “brown” is poorly defined and constantly shifting based on political expediency rather than any coherent logic. As you point out Jews before WWII were widely considered “non white” and most white supremacists still considered them “non white”.

As you point out the majority would also be likely considered “brown” by the left except for the fact they are Jews.
Which is extremely problematic and seems quite racist in itself.

It is interesting how for the far right white supremacists they are not white enough but for many on the left they are “too white”, albeit for not entirely clear reasons. Not that racism is reasonable of course, but still it is interesting.