Cancel the Beijing Olympics ASAP

[Unified Communist Councils]

Millions dead.

Many who survived physically damaged and psychologically traumatized.

All because of a disease that started either from China's labs or China's failure to regulate their own wetmarkets, and China's failure to prevent this new disease from spreading to the rest of the world.

Blaming China for the disease, take a shot everybody.

Holding the Olympics in China would be an insult to the memory of those who died. And it would embolden the CPC to wonder what else they could get away with.

You can blame other countries' failure to prepare for this pandemic until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that none of this would've happened if China did the bare minimum to contain this, and there being actual consequences for this matters more than a few Olympians having to wait a few more years for their gold medal. People call it a once in a lifetime opportunity, but that's not necessarily the case. There are those who've gone to the Olympics multiple times.

I vote we also cancel Los Angeles 2028 and reward those Games to another country because we've never punished the United States for starting the Spanish Flu. If this idea sounds asinine, look in a mirror.

But cancelling the Beijing Olympics actually WOULD be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And opportunity to send a message to the CPC there's a limit on what they can get away with, and to the IOCC to never pick China again.

This is the most boring "lifetime opportunity" I've heard of recently, do better.

Agreed, it is quite a lame and nerdy opportunity.

[Kowani]

It turns out this whole thing was moot, since China didn't know about covid prior to the global outbreak

[Haganham]

It turns out this whole thing was moot, since China didn't know about covid prior to the global outbreak

Well that's obvious bullshit. Even in the west we knew about covid before the Global outbreak. We talked about it here ffs.

[The H Corporation]

It turns out this whole thing was moot, since China didn't know about covid prior to the global outbreak

Well that's obvious bullshit. Even in the west we knew about covid before the Global outbreak. We talked about it here ffs.

Still doesn't make China accountable and the one to blame for the Covid outbreak which is what the OP implies.

[Kannap]

It turns out this whole thing was moot, since China didn't know about covid prior to the global outbreak

Well that's obvious bullshit. Even in the west we knew about covid before the Global outbreak. We talked about it here ffs.

The intelligence community is saying Chinese officials didn't know about it before the Wuhan outbreak in November 2019, not the later global spread. This is what the linked article suggests, that the intelligence community rejects the lab leak theory.

[Diarcesia]

Millions dead.

Many who survived physically damaged and psychologically traumatized.

All because of a disease that started either from China's labs or China's failure to regulate their own wetmarkets, and China's failure to prevent this new disease from spreading to the rest of the world.

Blaming China for the disease, take a shot everybody.

Holding the Olympics in China would be an insult to the memory of those who died. And it would embolden the CPC to wonder what else they could get away with.

You can blame other countries' failure to prepare for this pandemic until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that none of this would've happened if China did the bare minimum to contain this, and there being actual consequences for this matters more than a few Olympians having to wait a few more years for their gold medal. People call it a once in a lifetime opportunity, but that's not necessarily the case. There are those who've gone to the Olympics multiple times.

I vote we also cancel Los Angeles 2028 and reward those Games to another country because we've never punished the United States for starting the Spanish Flu. If this idea sounds asinine, look in a mirror.

But cancelling the Beijing Olympics actually WOULD be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And opportunity to send a message to the CPC there's a limit on what they can get away with, and to the IOCC to never pick China again.

This is the most boring "lifetime opportunity" I've heard of recently, do better.

The only circumstance I can think of that will make China be culpable for Covid is if there is conclusive evidence that (1) they engineered the virus or (2) they covered up an accidental leak.

[Sungoldy-China]

Seriously, is the cancellation of the Olympic Games really a penalty?

After seeing the fate of Japan’s forcibly hosting the Olympics,

I really hope that the Beijing Olympics will be cancelled unexpectedly.

[Grave_n_idle]

It turns out this whole thing was moot, since China didn't know about covid prior to the global outbreak

Well that's obvious bullshit. Even in the west we knew about covid before the Global outbreak. We talked about it here ffs.

I'm assuming this is a simple timing error - you think they are talking about when coronavirus was spotted in the US in early 2020, when they're actually talking about the initial outbreak in late 2019.

[Grave_n_idle]

Millions dead.

Many who survived physically damaged and psychologically traumatized.

All because of a disease that started either from China's labs or China's failure to regulate their own wetmarkets, and China's failure to prevent this new disease from spreading to the rest of the world.

Holding the Olympics in China would be an insult to the memory of those who died. And it would embolden the CPC to wonder what else they could get away with.

You can blame other countries' failure to prepare for this pandemic until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that none of this would've happened if China did the bare minimum to contain this, and there being actual consequences for this matters more than a few Olympians having to wait a few more years for their gold medal. People call it a once in a lifetime opportunity, but that's not necessarily the case. There are those who've gone to the Olympics multiple times.

But cancelling the Beijing Olympics actually WOULD be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And opportunity to send a message to the CPC there's a limit on what they can get away with, and to the IOCC to never pick China again.

This is just silly.

Pandemics are going to happen, and pointing the finger at where a pandemic starts is almost never useful - but it's ideologically preferable to admitting all the screw-ups in our own responses.

None of which has anything to do with where the Olympics should be held. It's a massive expense. If Beijing wants that expense, I'm okay with it.

[Kannap]

After seeing the fate of Japan’s forcibly hosting the Olympics

[citation needed], Japan wasn't forced to host the Olympics

I really hope that the Beijing Olympics will be cancelled unexpectedly.

They won't be. Only five Olympic Games have been cancelled, and all of those were due to wartime: The 1916 Summer Games set for Berlin were cancelled because of WW1.

Four Olympic Games were cancelled because of WW2:
- Winter 1940: Sapporo, Japan and Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany
- Summer 1940: Tokyo, Japan and Helsinki, Finland
- Winter 1944: Cortina d'Ampezzo, Italy
- Summer 1944: London, UK

Tokyo 2020 was the first Olympic Games to be postponed a year, but while you could argue that a global pandemic is severe enough circumstance to cancel the Games, the IOC clearly disagrees with you with their lack of cancelling the Games of the XXXII Olympiad. They're certainly not going to cancel the Beijing Games.

[Duvniask]

After seeing the fate of Japan’s forcibly hosting the Olympics

[citation needed], Japan wasn't forced to host the Olympics

Ehh, I wouldn't quite know about that, chief.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57097853

How could the Games be axed?

The contract between the IOC and host city Tokyo is straightforward: There's one article regarding cancellation and it only gives the option for the IOC to cancel, not for the host city.

That's because the Olympic Games are the "exclusive property" of the IOC, international sports lawyer Alexandre Miguel Mestre told the BBC. And as the "owner" of the Games, it is the IOC that can terminate said contract.

One reason given to justify a cancellation - aside from things like war or civil disorder - is that if "the IOC has reasonable grounds to believe, in its sole discretion, that the safety of participants in the Games would be seriously threatened or jeopardised for any reason whatsoever". Arguably, the pandemic could be seen as such a threat.

The Olympic charter also stipulates that the IOC should ensure "the health of the athletes" and promote "safe sports", Mr Mestre says, but despite all this, the IOC seems determined to go ahead.

So could Japan go against the IOC and pull out itself?

"Under various clauses within this host city agreement, if Japan was to unilaterally cancel the contract, then by and large, the risks and losses would fall with the local organising committee," Professor Jack Anderson at the University of Melbourne told the BBC.

The sports law expert explains that the contract is fairly typical and that of course Tokyo knew what it signed up to. What it didn't know was that a global pandemic would enter the picture.

"Contracts can foresee certain contingencies, but the nature of the current situation is obviously unprecedented," he says.

"The Olympics are the biggest sporting event on the calendar, there are billions at stake for Japan and also the IOC in terms of broadcasting sponsorship. It is a huge event and there are huge contractual obligations for all sides."

Hence, the only realistic scenario is Japan pulling the plug jointly with the IOC, staying within the framework of their contract.

If that happens, that's where insurances would come in: The IOC has insurance, the local organising committee has insurance and the various broadcasters and sponsors will also have insurance.

"It's probably safe to say that if the Tokyo Olympics is cancelled, it would probably be the biggest insurance pay-out event of its kind, there's no question about that," Prof Anderson says.

Insurance would cover the concrete expenses by the organisers, but it would hardly cover all of the indirect cost raked up by investments across the country in anticipation of the spectacle - hotels and restaurants for example, that might have undergone renovations in preparations for tourists they thought they would receive.

[Kannap]

[citation needed], Japan wasn't forced to host the Olympics

Ehh, I wouldn't quite know about that, chief.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57097853

How could the Games be axed?

The contract between the IOC and host city Tokyo is straightforward: There's one article regarding cancellation and it only gives the option for the IOC to cancel, not for the host city.

That's because the Olympic Games are the "exclusive property" of the IOC, international sports lawyer Alexandre Miguel Mestre told the BBC. And as the "owner" of the Games, it is the IOC that can terminate said contract.

One reason given to justify a cancellation - aside from things like war or civil disorder - is that if "the IOC has reasonable grounds to believe, in its sole discretion, that the safety of participants in the Games would be seriously threatened or jeopardised for any reason whatsoever". Arguably, the pandemic could be seen as such a threat.

The Olympic charter also stipulates that the IOC should ensure "the health of the athletes" and promote "safe sports", Mr Mestre says, but despite all this, the IOC seems determined to go ahead.

So could Japan go against the IOC and pull out itself?

"Under various clauses within this host city agreement, if Japan was to unilaterally cancel the contract, then by and large, the risks and losses would fall with the local organising committee," Professor Jack Anderson at the University of Melbourne told the BBC.

The sports law expert explains that the contract is fairly typical and that of course Tokyo knew what it signed up to. What it didn't know was that a global pandemic would enter the picture.

"Contracts can foresee certain contingencies, but the nature of the current situation is obviously unprecedented," he says.

"The Olympics are the biggest sporting event on the calendar, there are billions at stake for Japan and also the IOC in terms of broadcasting sponsorship. It is a huge event and there are huge contractual obligations for all sides."

Hence, the only realistic scenario is Japan pulling the plug jointly with the IOC, staying within the framework of their contract.

If that happens, that's where insurances would come in: The IOC has insurance, the local organising committee has insurance and the various broadcasters and sponsors will also have insurance.

"It's probably safe to say that if the Tokyo Olympics is cancelled, it would probably be the biggest insurance pay-out event of its kind, there's no question about that," Prof Anderson says.

Insurance would cover the concrete expenses by the organisers, but it would hardly cover all of the indirect cost raked up by investments across the country in anticipation of the spectacle - hotels and restaurants for example, that might have undergone renovations in preparations for tourists they thought they would receive.

Clause 66 of the Host City Contract for the Games of the XXXII Olympiad in 2020 covers termination, found on page 72 here, and does make it clear that the IOC is the only member of the contract who can cancel the Games, truly. There are three signatories to this contract, found on page 82: The IOC, represented by President Jacques Rogge and Chairman of the Finance Commission Richard Carrion; The city of Tokyo, represented by Governor Naoki Inose; and the Japanese Olympic Committee, represented by President Tsunekazu Takeda. Clause 66 means that the city of Tokyo nor the Japanese Olympic Committee cannot cancel the Games - so surely only the IOC has power to cancel the Games then, right?

Well, not exactly. The federal government of Japan is not a party of the Contract, nor does the Contract specify the rights of the host nation in regards to termination of the Games. The federal government of Japan - or any hosting country - if they wanted to, could close their borders to travel, impose restrictions on the movement and gathering of people, or take other actions to render hosting the Olympics impossible. One could argue that the COVID pandemic has been a serious enough reason for the Japanese government to cancel the Games, but they allowed them go on. Japan was not forced to hold these Games, rather the Japanese Olympic Committee, the city of Tokyo, and the Japanese federal government all displayed pride in their chance to host the Games yet again.

So what would have happened if Japan had cancelled the Games? Japan would suffer great financial losses (which they did anyway because nobody could attend the Games and tourism was not allowed in Tokyo) and maybe the IOC would bar the Japanese Olympic Committee from sending athletes to compete in their competitions for a set amount of time as punishment for cancelling the Games. So while cancelling the Games wouldn't be the easiest decision to make, we're living in tough times with this pandemic and the right person in power could've made that call. Japan hosted the Games willingly, despite the hurdles they faced.

[Maricarland]

Cancel all Olympics, until the pandemic is over, until we are on track to control climate change, until there are no armed conflicts on Earth, and until there are no major humanitarian crisis.

[Antipatros]

Cancel all Olympics, until the pandemic is over, until we are on track to control climate change, until there are no armed conflicts on Earth, and until there are no major humanitarian crisis.

I don't think there will ever be another Olympics under those requirements.

[Punished UMN]

I am absolutely a Communist. That the PRC had to acquiesce sectors of its economy to the Capitalist interests of the West in order to develop said economy so they wouldn't be weak both in the face of Western aggression and interests and when the needs of the people needed to be met as best as possible doesn't, to me, indicate that they betrayed their revolution - especially not when the resultant bourgeois class is kept on a tight leash to combat the natural corruption entailed in that economic class and keep them acting in the interests of China. That you come at me like this with accusations of "simping" with your moralizations because I merely explained what the PRC is all while you don't or won't understand the reasoning behind the economic reforms and choose some ideological purism in the face of the realpolitik of the world doesn't matter to me. What matters to me here is whether the CPC and, by extension, the PRC is doing things that benefit the people of China and thus are doing things in the interest of advancing the cause of Communism. And, again, referring back to the survey showing that over 95% of Chinese citizens support the CPC, I absolutely believe they're doing something right on the road to Communism.

Poll: "Do you support the government?"

Citizen: "The government that shoots unarmed protesters, abducts people off the streets to harvest their organs, sterilizes minorities, makes critics disappear, and threatens entire families when people speak out against it?"

Poll: "Yes."

Citizen: *looks around nervously, eyeing a very suspicious looking van with two black-clad men with binoculars in it* "...Yes?"

The PRC isn't socialist or a democracy in any sense, but it's pretty clear the government has widespread support there, and it makes sense that they would, undeniably the CCP has improved the quality of life in China from 1980 to today by orders of magnitude. Places that were little more than villages when you were born are now bustling metropolises that rival anywhere in the Western world. The PRC security state would not be adequate to suppress dissent coming from even a plurality of the population. On a per-capita basis, they have a small military and police force and political participation is fairly limited.

[Punished UMN]

Blaming China for the disease, take a shot everybody.



I vote we also cancel Los Angeles 2028 and reward those Games to another country because we've never punished the United States for starting the Spanish Flu. If this idea sounds asinine, look in a mirror.



This is the most boring "lifetime opportunity" I've heard of recently, do better.

The only circumstance I can think of that will make China be culpable for Covid is if there is conclusive evidence that (1) they engineered the virus or (2) they covered up an accidental leak.

If there was an accidental leak and a cover-up, there's the other issue that that doesn't mean the central government were the ones who did the initial cover-up. It's very common for bureaucrats in any country to do shady shit behind the political leadership's back.

[Diarcesia]

The only circumstance I can think of that will make China be culpable for Covid is if there is conclusive evidence that (1) they engineered the virus or (2) they covered up an accidental leak.

If there was an accidental leak and a cover-up, there's the other issue that that doesn't mean the central government were the ones who did the initial cover-up. It's very common for bureaucrats in any country to do shady shit behind the political leadership's back.

A very fair observation. If it were the bureaucrats' doing, I would assign responsibility to the central government, but not necessarily the blame.

[Muzehnaya]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would have something to do with the genocide the Chinese government is currently performing in East Turkestan. What "once in a lifetime" message is this even sending? Countries from the US to China to Egypt all had terrible COVID responses, and I'm not sure why China shouldering the brunt of the blame is either justified or helpful.

[Punished UMN]

If there was an accidental leak and a cover-up, there's the other issue that that doesn't mean the central government were the ones who did the initial cover-up. It's very common for bureaucrats in any country to do shady shit behind the political leadership's back.

A very fair observation. If it were the bureaucrats' doing, I would assign responsibility to the central government, but not necessarily the blame.

Yeah, I doubt the central government would have covered up an initial leak unless they had successfully contained it, but it genuinely wouldn't surprise me at all if local bureaucrats had covered stuff up (which the Chinese government has even said) and the central government was willing to keep that up for certain elements of the cover-up after the fact to save face.

[Ethel mermania]

Well that's obvious bullshit. Even in the west we knew about covid before the Global outbreak. We talked about it here ffs.

The intelligence community is saying Chinese officials didn't know about it before the Wuhan outbreak in November 2019, not the later global spread. This is what the linked article suggests, that the intelligence community rejects the lab leak theory.

4 out of 5 with low confidence. The 5th thought they did.

Sounds like a " i dunno", to me.

[Grave_n_idle]

The intelligence community is saying Chinese officials didn't know about it before the Wuhan outbreak in November 2019, not the later global spread. This is what the linked article suggests, that the intelligence community rejects the lab leak theory.

4 out of 5 with low confidence. The 5th thought they did.

Sounds like a " i dunno", to me.

That's not really what they said, either.

The consensus was that Chinese officials had no foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak - Kannap was right - ALL 18 agencies agreed that the virus wasn't some sort of biological warfare. The 4/5 thing you're talking about is the 5 'conclusions' - 4 that said that the evidence supports a natural migration, but with only a low level of confidence, and 1 that supports accidental lab release, but with only a moderate level of confidence.

Additionally, these are only intelligence agency conclusion - pathological epidemiologists ruled out the 'bio-weapon' and lab-modified conclusions a year ago.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

A very fair observation. If it were the bureaucrats' doing, I would assign responsibility to the central government, but not necessarily the blame.

Yeah, I doubt the central government would have covered up an initial leak unless they had successfully contained it, but it genuinely wouldn't surprise me at all if local bureaucrats had covered stuff up (which the Chinese government has even said) and the central government was willing to keep that up for certain elements of the cover-up after the fact to save face.

Almost certainly, the local Wuhan government was untruthful with the central government. It's been a while, but I remember there was even a NYT article on how the local Wuhan government didn't follow the disease reporting standards laid out by the central government. Sort of par for the course in China.

[Grave_n_idle]

Yeah, I doubt the central government would have covered up an initial leak unless they had successfully contained it, but it genuinely wouldn't surprise me at all if local bureaucrats had covered stuff up (which the Chinese government has even said) and the central government was willing to keep that up for certain elements of the cover-up after the fact to save face.

Almost certainly, the local Wuhan government was untruthful with the central government. It's been a while, but I remember there was even a NYT article on how the local Wuhan government didn't follow the disease reporting standards laid out by the central government. Sort of par for the course in China.

That's not a China thing, that's an everywhere thing.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Almost certainly, the local Wuhan government was untruthful with the central government. It's been a while, but I remember there was even a NYT article on how the local Wuhan government didn't follow the disease reporting standards laid out by the central government. Sort of par for the course in China.

That's not a China thing, that's an everywhere thing.

Well, I think the key thing is that people think that because China is authoritarian, that means Xi Jinping sits in front of a palantír all day to see everything that is going on. Even in full totalitarian regimes, local officials have some leeway to do their own thing. And especially in China because corruption and the various incentive systems the central government has for promoting local officials.

[The 189]

Sinophobic nonsense is so last year. Give me something new.