The Future of the Republican Party

[Thanatttynia]

That particular understanding of the Republican party is one I've always encountered from liberals (whether proud or crypto-whatever else) so I made that jump. If he's not then that's my bad - but I also don't mean it as a slur lol, I like and respect plenty of liberals outside the political realm

Kowani's further left than liberalism; he is some type of socialist.

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Kowani's further left than liberalism; he is some type of socialist.

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

Anti-capitalists tend to be very annoyed by the diluting of the term "leftist" and its conflation with "liberal."

[Cekoviu]

Kowani's further left than liberalism; he is some type of socialist.

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

using the word "zoomer" unironically immediately destroys your credibility sorry. i was listening to you until this

[Lady Victory]

Kowani's further left than liberalism; he is some type of socialist.

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

No he's like a literal full-blown socialist. As in "workers should own the means of production" socialist.

[Thanatttynia]

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

Anti-capitalists tend to be very annoyed by the diluting of the term "leftist" and its conflation with "liberal."

Sure, I’m no capitalist and this used to annoy me. Then I realised that said conflation was not merely semantic but actual. But that was a personal decision and ig we’re straying off topic.

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

using the word "zoomer" unironically immediately destroys your credibility sorry. i was listening to you until this

Do you have a better word for people of that generation? It has wide currency and I’ve lit never seen anyone have a problem with it. I’m not crazy about the word though lol, open to suggestions if you have any

Well afaict "leftism" nowadays is zoomer-oriented liberalism. That needn't make every leftist a liberal though, so perhaps it was a misjudgement. But we'll see.

No he's like a literal full-blown socialist. As in "workers should own the means of production" socialist.

Good for him but I’m still confused by his argument about the Republican Party lol

[The Holy Therns]

The future kinda seems like the drag equivalent of politics.

Or it might've been there for a few decades. Iono.

[Kowani]

Lol I knew polarization in America was bad but I really gasped at this thread. Exhibits a b c d e prove US liberals are exactly as unhinged as deepest end of QAnon.

1-not a liberal
2-don't like the democrats
3-"polarization" is a deeply inadequate framework for modern partisan sentiments

the core motivating engine of the republican party is white-conservative-christian power and social dominance, within a particular paradigm that involves never actually admitting this to be the case as a result of the overton window shifts created by the civil rights' movement (the 1960's social upheaval in general, but the inherent racialization of the crm in particular)

Are Republicans aware that their "core motivating engine" is "white-conservative-christian power" [/quote] depends, who is "republicans"
the party elite is aware of this fact and seek to utilize it for electoral gains (largely through dogwhistles) so they can engage in their mission of tax cuts, mass surveillance, police militarization and deregulation (though in fairness surveillance and police militarization is a bipartisan enterprise) but among the base it is a very different experience-there's no message discipline and there are a lot more people

If as you say it is covert because of "overton window shifts" how does it replicate itself within the institution of the Republican party?

a result of the second phase of the great party shift initiated by the goldwater campaign
a relatively simple process (i'm mostly ignoring the role of the right-wing media here because i don't really want to elaborate on clarence manion and the propaganda arm right now)
racists exist in both parties
politician (beginning, again, with goldwater begins to appeal to racists-not through outright slurs), but through policies that are designed to maintain the position of white people in the racial hierarchy
racists migrate to this party and become a power base through a two step process
the first part of this is the migration of people who strongly disagree with racists out of the party-and the second is the replacement of preexisting politicians who are unwilling to work with racists through primaries
it is a combination of these two things that led to the collapse of the rockerfeller republicans as a real political force, for example, even if they have a few hangers-on like charlie baker and larry hogan, the two are largely buoyed by democrats voting across party lines rather than an organizational strength of the actual republican faction
from here, the stage is largely set-to win in a primary, one needs to, at the very least, court people's racial animus (not racial prejudices)-and thanks to the racialization of many (ostensibly) non-racial factors of government, this is usually acceptable to the corporate backers because cutting things like welfare spending or shrinking the size of the government (even if its some regulatory agency no one's ever heard of!) satisfies both groups

Are there initiation rites or do naturally racist people just naturally congregate and organize together within the Republican party like hivemind aliens?

no to both-there are tons of racist people in the democratic party as well
what happened was the party set its platform to attract these people-as well as the democratic party being associated with being the party of minorities (both from its demographic composition as well as the racialization of the policies it pushes)-to the point where it can no longer jettison those people from its platform because it will suffer either electoral losses or elites being replaced by someone more amicable to the racial animus
and i say animus because it is perfectly possible to not actually have any prejudices (though to be clear a majority of republican voters are explicitly prejudiced and this is a motivating factor as well) and still want a state that maintains the position of white people in the racial hierarchy

Lastly a general question for those who believe such things as above because I am genuinely interested. How is political change possible within an electoral system that is apparently a yes/no referendum on would you like to live in a fascist theocracy? I assume that given your stated beliefs you all vote Democrat every election you can

i live in a safe blue district in california, whether i vote democratic or not literally does not matter

- if I believe what you all do I certainly would - so what is your plan now? Stick with electoral politics knowing you are wedded by fear into existing within a self-imposed psychic one-party-state? Or something else?

what the fuck
the problem for the republicans is that they are losing
they have about a 15 year window to impose their vision and that is it

[Postauthoritarian America]

The sig says it all. The future of the Republican Party is tied to the future of the nation. It either winds up on the ash heap of US political history along with the Whigs and the Know-Nothings and the nation prospers; or it succeeds in its project to replace representative democracy in the US with authoritarianism and the nation declines. This talk of factions in the party that might possibly deal with Trump and Trumpism is pure BS. The exceptions to the rule of Republican abject subservience to Trump can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Not counting the thumb.

[Cekoviu]

using the word "zoomer" unironically immediately destroys your credibility sorry. i was listening to you until this

Do you have a better word for people of that generation? It has wide currency and I’ve lit never seen anyone have a problem with it. I’m not crazy about the word though lol, open to suggestions if you have any

"Gen Z-oriented liberalism" would work just fine in that sentence without making you sound like a twitter frog avi

[New haven america]

Well I can't predict the future but I know what would happen if the Reps did gain the power most of them want.

A fascist state with a oligarchy governance (A la~ modern day Russia, there's a reason why so many Reps like the place now) and conservative Christian and conservative societal policies. (Stripping rights from women and minorities, banning abortion, militarizing the police, jailing/executing intellectuals and scientists that speak out against them, etc...)

Republicans: The sky is blue.
Democrats: Why would you say the sky is green? You are a neo-nazi.

US politics are wild; Democrats live in a completely different universe and just totally ignore the real world.

You got abortion right though, we should not allow anyone to harm children.

Let's just ignore the fact that a lot of Republicans believe that the Dems run a satanic cult that partakes in infanticide, cannibalism, and blood orgies every Saturday.

And that includes multiple members of Congress like Lauren Boebart and Marjorie Tyler Green.

[New haven america]

Well I can't predict the future but I know what would happen if the Reps did gain the power most of them want.

A fascist state with a oligarchy governance (A la~ modern day Russia, there's a reason why so many Reps like the place now) and conservative Christian and conservative societal policies. (Stripping rights from women and minorities, banning abortion, militarizing the police, jailing/executing intellectuals and scientists that speak out against them, etc...)

1. What you're describing is not in any way what would happen. 2. Scientists and intellectuals would not be jailed, 3. rights would not be stripped from women or minorities, and the US would not become a fascist oligarchy. 4. No conservative that I know likes Russia.

Please, stop spewing whatever shit you see on Twitter.

1. You can say that as much as you want, doesn't mean you're gonna stop being wrong.
2. Scientists and intellectuals that agree with them wouldn't be. Those that don't follow party line, however (So like, 95% of America's current scientists and intellectuals), will definitely be.
3. Strange you say that given how many Reps believe that a woman's place is in the home and that America should be a white Christian nation. (Or are we gonna ignore the Muslim and Transgender bans as well as refugee restrictions Trump instituted?)
4. Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell, John Thune, etc...

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

If they fully embrace Donald Trump's popularity cult, then they will lose some voters. If they outright reject it, then they will lose voters. The best stance on him and the resulting movement is unspoken/no stance if they wish to remain solidly one party.

[Thanatttynia]

Are Republicans aware that their "core motivating engine" is "white-conservative-christian power"

depends, who is "republicans"
the party elite is aware of this fact and seek to utilize it for electoral gains (largely through dogwhistles) so they can engage in their mission of tax cuts, mass surveillance, police militarization and deregulation (though in fairness surveillance and police militarization is a bipartisan enterprise) but among the base it is a very different experience-there's no message discipline and there are a lot more people

When you say the elite is aware that their motivation is the preservation of white etc power am I to understand this includes all elites? Or are there some like the base off-message? As has been discussed in this thread the Republican elite is large and increasingly disparate. Are "populist" elites included in this? Are POC elites included?

If they are really aware of this then it sounds like you are describing a kind of secret club of people who become white supremacists (functionally) because they think it's a good way to hold on to power? If they hold such beliefs for this reason why would they not jettison those beliefs when the demographics change? (see below) Are you not just inferring a racial or religious basis for right-wing beliefs because of the traditional makeup of the very wealthy in America?

If as you say it is covert because of "overton window shifts" how does it replicate itself within the institution of the Republican party?

a result of the second phase of the great party shift initiated by the goldwater campaign
snip
from here, the stage is largely set-to win in a primary, one needs to, at the very least, court people's racial animus (not racial prejudices)-and thanks to the racialization of many (ostensibly) non-racial factors of government, this is usually acceptable to the corporate backers because cutting things like welfare spending or shrinking the size of the government (even if its some regulatory agency no one's ever heard of!) satisfies both groups

How large is this constituency of racists? Has it changed in size since the 1960s? If you are implying that the reason such beliefs still hold is due to some sort of institutional inertia, is it not the case that populist shifts in the Republican party will do away with that? Or is it that right-wing beliefs are necessarily racist?

I take your point on welfare but I'm drawing a blank on how the elimination of regulatory agencies satisfies this racist constituency?

Are there initiation rites or do naturally racist people just naturally congregate and organize together within the Republican party like hivemind aliens?

no to both-there are tons of racist people in the democratic party as well
what happened was the party set its platform to attract these people-as well as the democratic party being associated with being the party of minorities (both from its demographic composition as well as the racialization of the policies it pushes)-to the point where it can no longer jettison those people from its platform because it will suffer either electoral losses or elites being replaced by someone more amicable to the racial animus

So how many racists are we dealing with here total ? It seems this argument lives and dies on the existence and size of this constituency for whom the preservation of white power is their single issue

and i say animus because it is perfectly possible to not actually have any prejudices (though to be clear a majority of republican voters are explicitly prejudiced and this is a motivating factor as well) and still want a state that maintains the position of white people in the racial hierarchy

Is conservatism in America necessarily racist because white people are currently on top of the racial hierarchy?

I am not disputing that the Republicans courted Southern racists in the 1960s. But there are a number of leaps from that to your charge that the Republicans' reason for being remains the preservation of white supremacy. It is a lot of extrapolation from a slim set of facts.

I also don't understand your death omen for the Republican party - even granting your argument, why is it that Republicans will be unable to pivot from this racist white constituency to a multiethnic constituency? You reference electoral losses but can you explain further? Why would said racist constituency abandon the Republican party because the party expands its base in another direction? Who would they vote for? What is the basis for the allegation that racism is more important to them than, say, economic self-interest or personal aspiration or cultural mores or nationalism? Or is this what you mean when you say racism?

Apols for all the questions but you have obviously thought this through so you seem a good person to ask

Do you have a better word for people of that generation? It has wide currency and I’ve lit never seen anyone have a problem with it. I’m not crazy about the word though lol, open to suggestions if you have any

"Gen Z-oriented liberalism" would work just fine in that sentence without making you sound like a twitter frog avi

I had no idea it had that connotation tbh. It's not yet in the OED but Merriam-Webster talks about it in a blog

[Senkaku]

The future kinda seems like the drag equivalent of politics.

Or it might've been there for a few decades. Iono.

That is an excellent description of the effects of virtualization tbh

[Thyrgga]

The Republican party should be abolished to make room for a genuine rightist party. That's not going to happen though, because the institutions will never allow the dissolution of the controlled opposition.

[Necroghastia]

The Republican party should be abolished to make room for a genuine rightist party. That's not going to happen though, because the institutions will never allow the dissolution of the controlled opposition.

...these institutions being?

[Thyrgga]

The Republican party should be abolished to make room for a genuine rightist party. That's not going to happen though, because the institutions will never allow the dissolution of the controlled opposition.

...these institutions being?

Banking, media, corporate America

The Republican party exists to energize progressives and be a laughing-stock.

[Necroghastia]

...these institutions being?

Banking, media, corporate America

we uh
we implying that those don't adore the republicans?

[Thyrgga]

Banking, media, corporate America

we uh
we implying that those don't adore the republicans?

The institutions certainly prop-up and give a voice to Republicans, yes, but the purpose is for them to say stupid nonsense for the benefit of the ruling party. It is just too convenient that Republicans have an incoherent worldview and thus have little force as a "rightist" party.

[Alien Overlord]

I'm confident in the survival and thriving of the Republican party going into the future. I'm of the belief that Trumpism will likely stay and be expanded upon, given it's had such a profound impact on young, born post 9/11 Republicans. I could see Trump running again and possibly winning in 2024, especially with all of Biden's current blunders regarding the Covid-19 epidemic, economy and messy Afghanistan departure. I would say that I'm overall optimistic for the future.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm confident in the survival and thriving of the Republican party going into the future. I'm of the belief that Trumpism will likely stay and be expanded upon, given it's had such a profound impact on young, born post 9/11 Republicans. I could see Trump running again and possibly winning in 2024, especially with all of Biden's current blunders regarding the Covid-19 epidemic, economy and messy Afghanistan departure. I would say that I'm overall optimistic for the future.

If so, then Biden would be held to a higher standard on the Covid-19 pandemic, as Trump was an absolute disaster on that.

[Lord Dominator]

He may be a great influence on Republicans born after 2001, but last I looked the Pew polling indicates that they’re outnumbered 2-1 by those who dislike Trump in that same age range.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Pretty much every bit of evidence says that sticking with Trump will doom the GOP to electoral irrelevance and it seems like they themselves know this and it's why they're trying so hard to implement voting restrictions now. They have maybe a decade left before elections are just unwinnable for them.

[Lady Victory]

Pretty much every bit of evidence says that sticking with Trump will doom the GOP to electoral irrelevance and it seems like they themselves know this and it's why they're trying so hard to implement voting restrictions now. They have maybe a decade left before elections are just unwinnable for them.

God forbid they do what normal political parties do and just change their fucking platform lmao.

[Lord Dominator]

He may be a great influence on Republicans born after 2001, but last I looked the Pew polling indicates that they’re outnumbered 2-1 by those who dislike Trump in that same age range.

Ah, my bad on this, I gave the rough numbers for Millennial approval on Trump (32-68 approve/disapprove).

The actual Pew numbers on voting age Gen-Z (collected in 2020) indicates a 77-22 split.