Who do you believe is the rightful Carlist Claimant?

[Exalted Inquellian State]

If that were true, there wouldn't be pretenders.

Said pretenders are disqualified due to their failure in fulfilling the requirements of Bigger Army Diplomacy, and do ascend the throne from time to time if they successfully conformed to the principle.

I mean, if they were defeated, by that logic they'd shut up and let the monarch who won rule. But they keep persisting, and occasionally succeed, not always through wars. Napoleon III ascended democratically, and after he was overthrown, the Orleanists and Legitimists didn't just start a civil war. They tried negotiating for a united succession, and nearly succeeded before they got into a hissy fit over a flag.

Edit: Also, where do you think they get the support of the army? The only truly local monarchs who reigned in the past 300 years were the Obrenovic, Karadordevic, Russian, Bonapartist, Ottoman, and maybe the Savoy dynasties. It ridiculously hard to establish yourself as a royal without already being part of a family.

[Saralonia]

I am Mexican, can I claim the throne? going back far enough there's gotta be some Spanish blood in me, surely

I'm not gonna bother counting how many socialists in morganatic marriages with no serious aspirations claim the Carlist throne, or how many of them don't speak Spanish.

I do speak Español, amigo, it's very much my first language

[Exalted Inquellian State]

I'm not gonna bother counting how many socialists in morganatic marriages with no serious aspirations claim the Carlist throne, or how many of them don't speak Spanish.

I do speak Español, amigo, it's very much my first language

Well, yeah, but your fellow socialist and communist claimants don't, and they all either have morganatic marriages, or no marriages at all.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Oh, finally, someone else voted for Carlos.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

I don't really know, all I know is that Carlists and Abertzale Left don't really get along and instead of VOX, the Basque Country has Carlists to fill the reactionary role as many Carlists became Falangist puppets in Basque Country.

That being said, there's a lot of claimants and I'd need to do genology to determine which one is the most suitable to determine the right answer for the poll.

The Carlists are still around in modern Spain?

[The Lake-]

someone named carl I presume

[Kubra]

Said pretenders are disqualified due to their failure in fulfilling the requirements of Bigger Army Diplomacy, and do ascend the throne from time to time if they successfully conformed to the principle.

I mean, if they were defeated, by that logic they'd shut up and let the monarch who won rule. But they keep persisting, and occasionally succeed, not always through wars. Napoleon III ascended democratically, and after he was overthrown, the Orleanists and Legitimists didn't just start a civil war. They tried negotiating for a united succession, and nearly succeeded before they got into a hissy fit over a flag.

Edit: Also, where do you think they get the support of the army? The only truly local monarchs who reigned in the past 300 years were the Obrenovic, Karadordevic, Russian, Bonapartist, Ottoman, and maybe the Savoy dynasties. It ridiculously hard to establish yourself as a royal without already being part of a family.

it still strikes me as hilarious that all prospects over the return of the french monarchy died because one dude threw a hissy fit over the tricolour

[Old Tyrannia]

With the death of Alfonso Carlos, Duke of San Jaime, in 1936 King Alfonso VIII became the senior male descendant of Carlos IV and therefore the legitimate King of Spain in both the Isabelline and Carlist lines of succession. This status was inherited by the current king, Felipe VI, who is Alfonso's great-grandson.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

I mean, if they were defeated, by that logic they'd shut up and let the monarch who won rule. But they keep persisting, and occasionally succeed, not always through wars. Napoleon III ascended democratically, and after he was overthrown, the Orleanists and Legitimists didn't just start a civil war. They tried negotiating for a united succession, and nearly succeeded before they got into a hissy fit over a flag.

Edit: Also, where do you think they get the support of the army? The only truly local monarchs who reigned in the past 300 years were the Obrenovic, Karadordevic, Russian, Bonapartist, Ottoman, and maybe the Savoy dynasties. It ridiculously hard to establish yourself as a royal without already being part of a family.

it still strikes me as hilarious that all prospects over the return of the french monarchy died because one dude threw a hissy fit over the tricolour

Not all prospects, the Action Francaise used to have power before it petered out, though it did significantly hurt them. The pope actually said while hiding out in Vatican city: "And all that, all that for a napkin!"

[Exalted Inquellian State]

I don't really know, all I know is that Carlists and Abertzale Left don't really get along and instead of VOX, the Basque Country has Carlists to fill the reactionary role as many Carlists became Falangist puppets in Basque Country.

That being said, there's a lot of claimants and I'd need to do genology to determine which one is the most suitable to determine the right answer for the poll.

The Carlists are still around in modern Spain?

Yeah, they're mostly split between traditionalists led by a guy who met with other far-right leaders in Vienna and serves as their regent(with some calling him King), while others follow a monarcho-socialist party based on titoist federalism.

[Heloin]

This is literally true, though. Monarchical claims throughout history have been guided by the core principle known as "Bigger Army DIplomacy".

If that were true, there wouldn't be pretenders.

Isn’t that one person succeeded and another person failed to utilise violence in a region the exact reason pretenders exist?

[The Blaatschapen]

If that were true, there wouldn't be pretenders.

Isn’t that one person succeeded and another person failed to utilise violence in a region the exact reason pretenders exist?

The probably sing the following bits:


Send in your skeletons
Sing as their bones go marching in again
They need you buried deep

[Exalted Inquellian State]

If that were true, there wouldn't be pretenders.

Isn’t that one person succeeded and another person failed to utilise violence in a region the exact reason pretenders exist?

They would shut up and stop claiming to be ruler, except they don't, and don't always have to get power back violently. There's multiple monarchist parties in countries that support pretenders, funded by influential people. One example of this was the Russian Monarchist Party, Napoleon III's rise, the near-restoration of French Monarchy, the Action Francaise, the restoration of the Spanish monarchy, and Nepal's monarchist party.

[Heloin]

Isn’t that one person succeeded and another person failed to utilise violence in a region the exact reason pretenders exist?

They would shut up and stop claiming to be ruler, except they don't,

Why?

and don't always have to get power back violently.

Cool.

There's multiple monarchist parties in countries that support pretenders, funded by influential people. One example of this was the Russian Monarchist Party, Napoleon III's rise, the near-restoration of French Monarchy, the Action Francaise, the restoration of the Spanish monarchy, and Nepal's monarchist party.

When the only successful examples you have there include a monarch who seized power in a coup and one installed by a fascist dictatorship then I think your point is a bit fuzzy.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

They would shut up and stop claiming to be ruler, except they don't,

Why?

and don't always have to get power back violently.

Cool.

There's multiple monarchist parties in countries that support pretenders, funded by influential people. One example of this was the Russian Monarchist Party, Napoleon III's rise, the near-restoration of French Monarchy, the Action Francaise, the restoration of the Spanish monarchy, and Nepal's monarchist party.

When the only successful examples you have there include a monarch who seized power in a coup and one installed by a fascist dictatorship then I think your point is a bit fuzzy.

Napoleon III was elected democratically, he became emperor in a coup, but he probably would've done without it given his support. Being installed peacefully is still being installed peacefully. The Russian Monarchist Party is led by a businessman and a presumably rich noble. As mentioned before, the Legitimist restoration was foiled by the flag. And Nepal still has a pro-monarchist party and protests going on. Also, Bhutan got its monarchy non-violently by a vote.

Regarding why pretenders would stop claiming the throne, well, their army lost, they would have to shut up and accept it. But that's not the case.

[Heloin]

Why?

Regarding why pretenders would stop claiming the throne, well, their army lost, they would have to shut up and accept it. But that's not the case.

That makes no sense. People don’t accept it when an election clearly shows their preferred candidate lost, why the hell would you think the kind of people who failed to take over states would be any different?

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Regarding why pretenders would stop claiming the throne, well, their army lost, they would have to shut up and accept it. But that's not the case.

That makes no sense. People don’t accept it when an election clearly shows their preferred candidate lost, why the hell would you think the kind of people who failed to take over states would be any different?

People who loose elections usually stop trying to win after that.

[The Serbian Empire]

I don't really know, all I know is that Carlists and Abertzale Left don't really get along and instead of VOX, the Basque Country has Carlists to fill the reactionary role as many Carlists became Falangist puppets in Basque Country.

That being said, there's a lot of claimants and I'd need to do genology to determine which one is the most suitable to determine the right answer for the poll.

The Carlists are still around in modern Spain?

If you have a large enough population, there is bound to be oddballs grouping in large clusters like the existence of Flat Earth F.C. or the declining but still somewhat numerous Carlists.

[The Two Jerseys]

Doesn't matter, the Bourbons aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

That makes no sense. People don’t accept it when an election clearly shows their preferred candidate lost, why the hell would you think the kind of people who failed to take over states would be any different?

People who loose elections usually stop trying to win after that.

At this point in human history, free and fair elections accepted by both sides are more the exception than the rule.

[Crysuko]

>Carlist
>rightful

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

The Carlists are still around in modern Spain?

If you have a large enough population, there is bound to be oddballs grouping in large clusters like the existence of Flat Earth F.C. or the declining but still somewhat numerous Carlists.

Why do they even care? I really don't understand how anyone can really care about a historical quibble over succession from so long ago.

[Pirusavia]

The Carlists are still around in modern Spain?

Yeah, they're mostly split between traditionalists led by a guy who met with other far-right leaders in Vienna and serves as their regent(with some calling him King), while others follow a monarcho-socialist party based on titoist federalism.

What the hell, that last sentence sounds incredibly insane. I've never expected the word "monarcho-socialist" and "Titoist" in the same positive sense. It sounds like something straight out of /pol/.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Yeah, they're mostly split between traditionalists led by a guy who met with other far-right leaders in Vienna and serves as their regent(with some calling him King), while others follow a monarcho-socialist party based on titoist federalism.

What the hell, that last sentence sounds incredibly insane. I've never expected the word "monarcho-socialist" and "Titoist" in the same positive sense. It sounds like something straight out of /pol/.

They won a seat in 1979 and hold a few local assembly seats in the Basque I believe.

Oh, also, the traditionalist met with the Russian NazBol guy and Marie Le Pen in 2010 while discussing how to save Europe from the "Satanic gay lobby". His successor is unknown, but some say his sitters son might be a good one.

[Pirusavia]

What the hell, that last sentence sounds incredibly insane. I've never expected the word "monarcho-socialist" and "Titoist" in the same positive sense. It sounds like something straight out of /pol/.

They won a seat in 1979 and hold a few local assembly seats in the Basque I believe.

Oh my God, it even gets much more cursed.
Personally, I don't endorse monarchism in modern times, but if they could be much more progressive and less radically traditionalist (like Francoists), then it wouldn't be a big problem IMHO.