Macron sues billboard owner for depicting him as Hitler

[Kowani]

for reference, this is what the billboard looks like

[Herador]

for reference, this is what the billboard looks like

(Image)

I'm amazed at how little effort went into this.

[Vistulange]

for reference, this is what the billboard looks like

(Image)

I'm amazed at how little effort went into this.

Yeah, I was actually expecting far better art and far more striking imagery. This is basically a low-effort meme on a billboard.

[Page]

Flori makes a good point about Mohammad and Macrons defence of satirical caricature. As President, le Macron is fair game for satire and France has already defended offensive satire. I’ve got no idea about French slander rules though …

But I thought the whole thing with the cartoons of Mohammed was that it was an essential right to be able to satirise public figures.

This isn't libel or defamation, there are no factual claims involved. Portraying a public figure as Hitler is really just one of a thousand ways to say "fuck you."

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In France (and most of continental Europe), personal insults are a crime, not protected political speech. In fact, insulting a public official is considered a more serious offense than insulting a private individual. Whether that's frequently enforced in practice, is another matter.

From the International Press Institute:

Criminal Defamation of Public Officials

When criminal defamation is committed against public officials, the maximum fine increases to €45,000. The list of officials includes the French president, ministers, legislators, and ministers of religions subsidized by the state (Law of 29 July 1881 on the Freedom of the Press, Arts. 30-31.

In addition, the French Criminal Code punishes non-public grave insult (outrage) in the form of words, gestures, threats, writings or images of any kind against a person invested with a public-service mission, with a fine of up to €7,500. In certain, specific cases outlined by the law, outrage may also be punished with imprisonment of up to one year.

http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/france/

Even if there is legal resource, Macron still looks like a huge dick for seeking it. It's like if you called the police if a neighbor took your newspaper. Even if you are in the right legally, everyone thinks you're an asshole.

[Heloin]

I like a story where everyone in it is a dick.

[Infected Mushroom]

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In France (and most of continental Europe), personal insults are a crime, not protected political speech. In fact, insulting a public official is considered a more serious offense than insulting a private individual. Whether that's frequently enforced in practice, is another matter.

From the International Press Institute:

http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/france/

Even if there is legal resource, Macron still looks like a huge dick for seeking it. It's like if you called the police if a neighbor took your newspaper. Even if you are in the right legally, everyone thinks you're an asshole.

How come? Only one party broke the rules here, the one taking the newspaper. The law should be followed.

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Even if there is legal resource, Macron still looks like a huge dick for seeking it. It's like if you called the police if a neighbor took your newspaper. Even if you are in the right legally, everyone thinks you're an asshole.

How come? Only one party broke the rules here, the one taking the newspaper. The law should be followed.

Because self-respecting people don't go crying to the state for help with every trivial problem. If your neighbor steals your newspaper then ring their doorbell and confront them.

Also, for a more utility centered argument, if you did call the police because your neighbor stole your newspaper, just the costs of paying the cop for their time and paying for the gas in their car to get to you greatly exceeds the value of the stolen newspaper, so in doing so you are bleeding your community of resources over something petty, you are inflicting a much greater loss on your community than your neighbor inflicted on you.

[Infected Mushroom]

How come? Only one party broke the rules here, the one taking the newspaper. The law should be followed.

Because self-respecting people don't go crying to the state for help with every trivial problem. If your neighbor steals your newspaper then ring their doorbell and confront them.

Also, for a more utility centered argument, if you did call the police because your neighbor stole your newspaper, just the costs of paying the cop for their time and paying for the gas in their car to get to you greatly exceeds the value of the stolen newspaper, so in doing so you are bleeding your community of resources over something petty, you are inflicting a much greater loss on your community than your neighbor inflicted on you.

You can’t put a price tag on the value of property rights.

If a neighbor can just take your paper without sanction, then there’s very little preventing him from taking your car for a ride. What’s next? Once property rights go out the window, there’s little coming back.

[Kowani]

If a neighbor can just take your paper without sanction, then there’s very little preventing him from taking your car for a ride.

this slope is a 90 degree angle greased with oil

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Even if there is legal resource, Macron still looks like a huge dick for seeking it. It's like if you called the police if a neighbor took your newspaper. Even if you are in the right legally, everyone thinks you're an asshole.

How come? Only one party broke the rules here, the one taking the newspaper. The law should be followed.

The law is wrong. Not just "a law I disagree with" but a law that's wrong, in and of itself. If the law is allowed to stifle freedom of speech, then the law is no longer being shaped by a citizenry debating everything through free speech, and as such, the laws are no longer valid.

[Infected Mushroom]

How come? Only one party broke the rules here, the one taking the newspaper. The law should be followed.

The law is wrong. Not just "a law I disagree with" but a law that's wrong, in and of itself. If the law is allowed to stifle freedom of speech, then the law is no longer being shaped by a citizenry debating everything through free speech, and as such, the laws are no longer valid.

I don't think putting a billboard of Macron as Adolf Hitler is really debating at all. It's just trolling Macron.

[Vassenor]

The law is wrong. Not just "a law I disagree with" but a law that's wrong, in and of itself. If the law is allowed to stifle freedom of speech, then the law is no longer being shaped by a citizenry debating everything through free speech, and as such, the laws are no longer valid.

I don't think putting a billboard of Macron as Adolf Hitler is really debating at all. It's just trolling Macron.

And if we're not allowed to criticise political figures then freedom is dead.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't think putting a billboard of Macron as Adolf Hitler is really debating at all. It's just trolling Macron.

And if we're not allowed to criticise political figures then freedom is dead.

The billboard isn't criticism though. It's just offensive nonsense.

Criticism would be: "Macron's policies are bad because X, Y, and Z."

This doesn't arise to that level.

[Kerwa]

If you can’t handle being called hitler (which happens surprisingly often) you really aren’t stable enough to be a politician. It’s worse than celebrities that cry because some said mean things about them,

[Infected Mushroom]

If you can’t handle being called hitler (which happens surprisingly often) you really aren’t stable enough to be a politician. It’s worse than celebrities that cry because some said mean things about them,

I disagree. Politicians have rights too under the French law, and they should have them.

[Galloism]

for reference, this is what the billboard looks like

(Image)

So, that's just super lazy.

It's still free speech, but it's super lazy.

[Just-An-Illusion]

Considering it's a anti-vax billboard as well, I wouldn't take it seriously.

[Thermodolia]

for reference, this is what the billboard looks like

(Image)

So, that's just super lazy.

It's still free speech, but it's super lazy.

Well not exactly under French laws it might not be free speech as insulting the President can land you in trouble.

Either way the Jupiter President should have had the guy arrested for anti-vaxx statements and not because he’s fefes where hurt

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I'm against insult laws altogether but having extra or specific insult laws for public figures is even worse. If you can get in more trouble for portraying your country's leader as Hitler than doing the same to your neighbor who just works the cash register at the grocery store, that is totally fucked.

[Thermodolia]

I'm against insult laws altogether but having extra or specific insult laws for public figures is even worse. If you can get in more trouble for portraying your country's leader as Hitler than doing the same to your neighbor who just works the cash register at the grocery store, that is totally fucked.

It’s a hold over from the days of the French monarchy. Back when insulting the king basically meant death

[Dowaesk]

The law is wrong. Not just "a law I disagree with" but a law that's wrong, in and of itself. If the law is allowed to stifle freedom of speech, then the law is no longer being shaped by a citizenry debating everything through free speech, and as such, the laws are no longer valid.

I don't think putting a billboard of Macron as Adolf Hitler is really debating at all. It's just trolling Macron.

What about the comics with Prophet Muhammad showing his rear. Or with a bomb in his Turban. Or the many more offensive drawings done by Charlie Hebdo, whether it be someone other than Prophet Muhammad as well.

[Thermodolia]

I don't think putting a billboard of Macron as Adolf Hitler is really debating at all. It's just trolling Macron.

What about the comics with Prophet Muhammad showing his rear. Or with a bomb in his Turban. Or the many more offensive drawings done by Charlie Hebdo, whether it be someone other than Prophet Muhammad as well.

Well first off he’d have to exist so…

Second you can change your religion so it’s not as protected as things you can’t change

[Dowaesk]

I'm against insult laws altogether but having extra or specific insult laws for public figures is even worse. If you can get in more trouble for portraying your country's leader as Hitler than doing the same to your neighbor who just works the cash register at the grocery store, that is totally fucked.

Am with you. I think the world would be better off by taking Singapore as an example.

[Dowaesk]

What about the comics with Prophet Muhammad showing his rear. Or with a bomb in his Turban. Or the many more offensive drawings done by Charlie Hebdo, whether it be someone other than Prophet Muhammad as well.

Well first off he’d have to exist so…

Second you can change your religion so it’s not as protected as things you can’t change

You're one of those peeps who believe Prophet Muhammad was made-up?

[Thermodolia]

Well first off he’d have to exist so…

Second you can change your religion so it’s not as protected as things you can’t change

You're one of those peeps who believe Prophet Muhammad was made-up?

I didn’t say he was made up, I said exist. It’s clear the he doesn’t exist anymore