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Macron sues billboard owner for depicting him as Hitler

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Dowaesk
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Macron sues billboard owner for depicting him as Hitler

Postby Dowaesk » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:29 am

Emmanuel Macron takes legal action over Hitler poster comparison

Emmanuel Macron is taking legal action against a wealthy billboard operator who displayed posters depicting him as Adolf Hitler.

Lawyers for the French president are suing after the large images appeared in the Var in the south of France.

The posters, one of which appeared at the entrance to the Mediterranean town of Toulon – capital of the Var and home to an important naval base – showed Macron represented as the Nazi leader, with his toothbrush moustache, in full uniform and with the swastika armband altered to read LREM – La République En Marche – the president’s governing centre-right party. The accompanying slogan reads: “Obey. Get vaccinated.”

Michel-Ange Flori, who created and pasted the image on billboards, told the local newspaper he had been summoned by local police. “They confirmed that there had been a complaint from the Elysée,” Flori told Var-Matin. “I was surprised and shocked.”

He later tweeted: “In Macron-land, showing the Prophet’s rear is satire, making fun of Macron as a dictator is blasphemy,” referring to the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo’s controversial caricatures of the Prophet Muhammed.


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Last edited by Dowaesk on Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:44 am

Flori makes a good point about Mohammad and Macrons defence of satirical caricature. As President, le Macron is fair game for satire and France has already defended offensive satire. I’ve got no idea about French slander rules though …
Last edited by Cetacea on Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:51 am

He’s a prominent politician. Being compared to hitler is part of the job really. He should grow up and shrug it off.

On the other hand maybe he secretly does want to be like Hitler and us upset that he thinks somebody discovered his plans. That’s the only reason I can think for being upset about it.

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Dowaesk
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Postby Dowaesk » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:54 am

Kerwa wrote:He’s a prominent politician. Being compared to hitler is part of the job really. He should grow up and shrug it off.

On the other hand maybe he secretly does want to be like Hitler and us upset that he thinks somebody discovered his plans. That’s the only reason I can think for being upset about it.

Could be. Could be.

Him getting offended is apparently a much serious deal than that of almost 2 billion. Wonder whats his justification going to be when questioned.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:25 am

The accompanying slogan reads: “Obey. Get vaccinated.”
Cringe bollocks fucking hell.
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:43 am

I don't really like Macron, but I hope he wins.

It's stupid to compare every politician with the Nazis. It's demeaning to history.

And besides, people should get vaccinated anyway. The French need to quit acting like brats, and anti-vaxxers should be put down and kept out of influence as much as possible.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Enterprising Capitalists » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:46 am

The "everyone I hate is a Nazi" trope really needs to die off. Unless you're an actual Nazi using dog whistles to get your point across it's a lazy insult.
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:50 am

Salus Maior wrote:I don't really like Macron, but I hope he wins.

It's stupid to compare every politician with the Nazis. It's demeaning to history.

And besides, people should get vaccinated anyway. The French need to quit acting like brats, and anti-vaxxers should be put down and kept out of influence as much as possible.


But I thought the whole thing with the cartoons of Mohammed was that it was an essential right to be able to satirise public figures.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:54 am

If I was Macron I'd have posted the stupid anti-vax satirist's face on Death's body himself with the caption: "Covid reservoir and terror of the immuno-compromised" to see how the guy reacts. Anti-vaxx ideology rots your brain and kills immuno-compromised people. Don't do it.
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:56 am

Vassenor wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:I don't really like Macron, but I hope he wins.

It's stupid to compare every politician with the Nazis. It's demeaning to history.

And besides, people should get vaccinated anyway. The French need to quit acting like brats, and anti-vaxxers should be put down and kept out of influence as much as possible.


But I thought the whole thing with the cartoons of Mohammed was that it was an essential right to be able to satirise public figures.


I don't think I ever argued that?
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Postby Page » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:17 am

Utterly stupid but it is political speech and Macron debases himself by trying to suppress it.
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:22 am

Page wrote:Utterly stupid but it is political speech and Macron debases himself by trying to suppress it.


Political speech isn't sacred.
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Postby Page » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:30 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Page wrote:Utterly stupid but it is political speech and Macron debases himself by trying to suppress it.


Political speech isn't sacred.


A thing doesn't have to be sacred for one to look like an asshole for trying to suppress it.

This isn't libel or defamation, there are no factual claims involved. Portraying a public figure as Hitler is really just one of a thousand ways to say "fuck you."
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Postby Cosmic79 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:00 am

Enterprising Capitalists wrote:The "everyone I hate is a Nazi" trope really needs to die off. Unless you're an actual Nazi using dog whistles to get your point across it's a lazy insult.


It's one of these words that have lost all meaning because of overuse.

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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:02 am

Freedom of speech even covers macron crying to a judge. The only thing it doesn't cover are if it infringes on life, liberty, or Games Workshops IP's.
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Postby Herador » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:09 am

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Freedom of speech even covers macron crying to a judge. The only thing it doesn't cover are if it infringes on life, liberty, or Games Workshops IP's.

I'm laughing but it still hurts.
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Postby Estado Novo Portugues » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:48 pm

Cetacea wrote:Flori makes a good point about Mohammad and Macrons defence of satirical caricature. As President, le Macron is fair game for satire and France has already defended offensive satire. I’ve got no idea about French slander rules though …

Vassenor wrote:But I thought the whole thing with the cartoons of Mohammed was that it was an essential right to be able to satirise public figures.

Page wrote:This isn't libel or defamation, there are no factual claims involved. Portraying a public figure as Hitler is really just one of a thousand ways to say "fuck you."



In France (and most of continental Europe), personal insults are a crime, not protected political speech. In fact, insulting a public official is considered a more serious offense than insulting a private individual. Whether that's frequently enforced in practice, is another matter.

From the International Press Institute:
Criminal Defamation of Public Officials

When criminal defamation is committed against public officials, the maximum fine increases to €45,000. The list of officials includes the French president, ministers, legislators, and ministers of religions subsidized by the state (Law of 29 July 1881 on the Freedom of the Press, Arts. 30-31.

In addition, the French Criminal Code punishes non-public grave insult (outrage) in the form of words, gestures, threats, writings or images of any kind against a person invested with a public-service mission, with a fine of up to €7,500. In certain, specific cases outlined by the law, outrage may also be punished with imprisonment of up to one year.

http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/france/
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:16 pm

What’s there to discuss?

Macron is in the right. This is basically harassment from the billboard. How would you feel if your face was being compared to Hitler in public like that?

There’s freedom but it needs to used responsibly. Freedom of speech isn’t about making lazy, trolling attacks on people like this. We’re above that.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:18 pm

Estado Novo Portugues wrote:
Cetacea wrote:Flori makes a good point about Mohammad and Macrons defence of satirical caricature. As President, le Macron is fair game for satire and France has already defended offensive satire. I’ve got no idea about French slander rules though …

Vassenor wrote:But I thought the whole thing with the cartoons of Mohammed was that it was an essential right to be able to satirise public figures.

Page wrote:This isn't libel or defamation, there are no factual claims involved. Portraying a public figure as Hitler is really just one of a thousand ways to say "fuck you."



In France (and most of continental Europe), personal insults are a crime, not protected political speech. In fact, insulting a public official is considered a more serious offense than insulting a private individual. Whether that's frequently enforced in practice, is another matter.

From the International Press Institute:
Criminal Defamation of Public Officials

When criminal defamation is committed against public officials, the maximum fine increases to €45,000. The list of officials includes the French president, ministers, legislators, and ministers of religions subsidized by the state (Law of 29 July 1881 on the Freedom of the Press, Arts. 30-31.

In addition, the French Criminal Code punishes non-public grave insult (outrage) in the form of words, gestures, threats, writings or images of any kind against a person invested with a public-service mission, with a fine of up to €7,500. In certain, specific cases outlined by the law, outrage may also be punished with imprisonment of up to one year.

http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/france/


And it makes perfect sense.

If you don’t agree with Macron, criticize his policies.

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Postby Herador » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:47 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Macron is in the right. This is basically harassment from the billboard. How would you feel if your face was being compared to Hitler in public like that?

I'd be annoyed they spent that much money to screw with me and didn't put in more effort.

Infected Mushroom wrote:There’s freedom but it needs to used responsibly. Freedom of speech isn’t about making lazy, trolling attacks on people like this. We’re above that.

lol
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GuessTheAltAccount
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Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:54 pm

"They compared me to the Nazis! I'm going to resort to censorship to prove them wrong!"

This is like threatening to murder someone for calling you violent.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:07 pm

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:"They compared me to the Nazis! I'm going to resort to censorship to prove them wrong!"

This is like threatening to murder someone for calling you violent.


There’s no political point being made. It’s just active trolling/attempted bullying/misrepresentation.

No reasonable person could think Macron is Adolf Hitler.

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GuessTheAltAccount
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Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:17 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:"They compared me to the Nazis! I'm going to resort to censorship to prove them wrong!"

This is like threatening to murder someone for calling you violent.


There’s no political point being made. It’s just active trolling/attempted bullying/misrepresentation.

No reasonable person could think Macron is Adolf Hitler.

Who gets to say what comparison is reasonable? Damn near any two people on the face of the Earth could be compared in one aspect or another, however superficial.

The only way to gauge which comparisons are or are not meaningful is through freedom of speech.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:04 pm

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
There’s no political point being made. It’s just active trolling/attempted bullying/misrepresentation.

No reasonable person could think Macron is Adolf Hitler.

Who gets to say what comparison is reasonable? Damn near any two people on the face of the Earth could be compared in one aspect or another, however superficial.

The only way to gauge which comparisons are or are not meaningful is through freedom of speech.


The courts can decide if it’s a case of defamation or personal harassment. I think I can trust the judiciary to draw the lines case by case.

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