NATION

PASSWORD

Would you support the Newstates of America?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
A priori
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jul 25, 2021
Ex-Nation

Would you support the Newstates of America?

Postby A priori » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:42 pm

In the early 70's former FDR advisor and left-wing economist Rexford Tugwell wrote a book advocating a new constitution for the United States which included, among other things, a reduced number of states, greater power for the executive branch, a parliamentary House of Representatives, and a separate branch of government dedicated to economic planning. It was titled the Newstates of America.

Would you support the establishment of the Newstates of America?

Personally, I would. One of the worst things about the United States today is the abundance of useless states and regions. Some decry the decline of local news and interest in local political affair, but there's a reason for this. People don't care about local politics because the boundaries on which it is drawn often don't make any sense. I used to live in a suburb north of NYC where nobody knew that they lived in a village which was part of a conglomeration of villages whose central body ran most of the public services. The only people who actually engaged in the politics of this conglomeration were middle aged to elderly people who wanted to preserve the value of their homes by blocking the construction of new developments. It isn't better at the state level either. New York State government is a corrupt and inefficient mess. It is refreshing that someone, sometime actually had the nerve to assert we should get rid of states that no longer have any meaningful purpose and merge them. Ideally I think we could have a state called New England encompassing MA, NY, RI, etc., and something similar for the rest of the country. This, I think, would redraw borders in a way that sort of resembles cultural similarities and allow us to achieve better government by concentration of energy on one administration.

That aside I think the constitution has some problems but I'd still support it. Reforming the House of Representatives is a great idea, empowering the president less so but whatever.

What do you think, NSG?
Last edited by A priori on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Defender of Turks; Yasha Kemal Pasha

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78486
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:45 pm

Fuck no
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:46 pm

While I do think the states are arbitrary in their creation and should be reformed (assuming we need STATES in the first place), though the idea of an empowered executive fills me with dread.

User avatar
The Temple of the Computer
Diplomat
 
Posts: 566
Founded: May 02, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby The Temple of the Computer » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:46 pm

The executive branch is already FAR more powerful than it should be, so fuck empowering it more.
#FreeNSGRojava

User avatar
A priori
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jul 25, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby A priori » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm

The Temple of the Computer wrote:The executive branch is already FAR more powerful than it should be, so fuck empowering it more.

Okay but can we focus on other aspects of the Newstates of America?
Defender of Turks; Yasha Kemal Pasha

User avatar
Vadterland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 132
Founded: Jul 12, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Vadterland » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:48 pm

Absolutely not, an empowered executive is just prime real estate for corruption or authoritarianism. The states may be arbitrary, but their existence and stupid borders are far from the Union's greatest problem.

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11114
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:52 pm

Negative ghost rider, pattern is full.

User avatar
Rosmana
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Apr 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rosmana » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:54 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Fuck no

Amen.
-News in Dispatches, NS stats are not accurate-

My other nations are Rosmana and raskana

-Stop Putin NOW, copy if you agree-

User avatar
Immortan Khan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1847
Founded: Mar 17, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Immortan Khan » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:10 pm

A priori wrote:I used to live in a suburb north of NYC where nobody knew that they lived in a village which was part of a conglomeration of villages whose central body ran most of the public services. The only people who actually engaged in the politics of this conglomeration were middle aged to elderly people who wanted to preserve the value of their homes by blocking the construction of new developments.

This just tells me most of the people in this suburb were/are too stupid to bother with and should have their voting rights stripped and should be sent to uranium mines in Wyoming.
Last edited by Immortan Khan on Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Orthodoxy and Monarchy

Future cyberpunk villain. EO Christian. Purgatorial universalist. Bronze Age warlord grindset.
Pro: Warlordism, harems, Amazonian horse archers, steppebooism
Anti: You

User avatar
Nilokeras
Senator
 
Posts: 3955
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilokeras » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:48 pm

Calling Tugwell a 'left wing economist' is certainly overselling the situation. The guy was a technocrat and elitist planner type in the vein of Elizabeth Warren today, and like Warren none of the solutions he proposes actually does anything about the structural issues that they're intended to tackle because they're the sort of pie in the sky sweeping ideas that only an Ivy League aristocrat divorced from material history could come up with. He was a dead end then and a dead end now.

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20985
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:31 pm

A priori wrote:In the early 70's former FDR advisor...

I've read enough, it's a terrible idea.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7643
Founded: May 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 pm

No, the old name is fine. As for needing a new constitution, that's a given.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7643
Founded: May 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:45 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
A priori wrote:In the early 70's former FDR advisor...

I've read enough, it's a terrible idea.

Why? He not loyal enough to the free market?
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:46 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:No, the old name is fine. As for needing a new constitution, that's a given.

The United States of the USA.

User avatar
Auzkhia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28954
Founded: Mar 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Auzkhia » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:49 pm

I think it's mostly good, but presidency should be decentralized into a directory or made ceremonial. Not as it is written but it definitely would be an interesting starting point for much need government and constitutional reform. I'd call a constitutional convention and write a new one from scratch, though I don't trust most states to do it right, maybe if it were kept to the original thirteen plus Maine and Vermont.
Me irl. (she/her/it)
IC name: Celestial Empire of the Romans
Imperial-Royal Statement on NS Stats
Factbook Embassy App
Trans Lesbian Non-binary Lady Greco-Roman Pagan Socialist

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20985
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:50 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I've read enough, it's a terrible idea.

Why? He not loyal enough to the free market?

Because when FDR is by far the worst thing that's ever happened to the Executive Branch, the guy who's giving him ideas has to be even worse.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59168
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:51 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Fuck no

What he said.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Bombadil
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18714
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:59 pm

Some of it is good and upholds some good values, I especially like..

SECTION 10. All costs of electoral procedures shall be paid from public funds, and there shall be no private contributions to parties or candidates; no contributions or expenditures for meetings, conventions, or campaigns shall be made; and no candidate for office may make any personal expenditures unless authorized by a uniform rule of the Overseer; and persons or groups making expenditures, directly or indirectly, in support of prospective candidates shall report to the Overseer and shall conform to his regulations.

This isn't going to happen..

SECTION 8. There shall be a responsibility to avoid violence and to keep the peace; for this reason the bearing of arms or the possession of lethal weapons shall be confined to the police, members of the armed forces, and those licensed under law.

Names like the Watchkeeper or the Overseer sound weirdly dystopian, and not a fan of Newstates as a name.

Imagine this..

The President of the Newstates of America shall be the head of government, shaper of its commitments, expositor of its policies, and supreme commander of its protective forces; shall have one term of nine years, unless rejected by 60 percent of the electorate after three years;

That would've been 9 years of Trump..
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9511
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:11 pm

We had a good run, time to shut the United States America down and reboot it with something more federalized at the national level, and make states more decentralized so that they have less ability to abuse their powers. Not going to happen though, as too many have been sucked into notions that representative democracy is better than active and direct citizen participation in government. We could spend the money we save from sacking corrupt local politicians, on education, healthcare, and maybe low-income housing.
Herald (Vice-Delegate) of Lazarus
"Solidarity forever..."
Hoping for Peace in Israel and Palestine
  • Former First Citizen (PM) of Lazarus
  • Former Proedroi (Minister) of Foreign Affairs of Lazarus
  • Former Lazarus Delegate (Humane Republic of Lazarus, 2015)
  • Minister of Culture & Media (Humane Republic of Lazarus)
  • Foreign Minister of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Senator of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Interior Commissioner of Lazarus (Pre-People's Republic of Lazarus)
  • At some point a member of the Grey family...then father vanished...
  • Foreign Minister of The Last Kingdom (RIP)
  • ADN:DSA Rep for Eastern Roman Empire
  • Honoratus Servant of the Holy Land (Eastern Roman Empire)
  • UN/WA Delegate of Trans Atlantice (RIP)

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78486
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:24 pm

Bombadil wrote:Some of it is good and upholds some good values, I especially like..

SECTION 10. All costs of electoral procedures shall be paid from public funds, and there shall be no private contributions to parties or candidates; no contributions or expenditures for meetings, conventions, or campaigns shall be made; and no candidate for office may make any personal expenditures unless authorized by a uniform rule of the Overseer; and persons or groups making expenditures, directly or indirectly, in support of prospective candidates shall report to the Overseer and shall conform to his regulations.

This isn't going to happen..

SECTION 8. There shall be a responsibility to avoid violence and to keep the peace; for this reason the bearing of arms or the possession of lethal weapons shall be confined to the police, members of the armed forces, and those licensed under law.

Names like the Watchkeeper or the Overseer sound weirdly dystopian, and not a fan of Newstates as a name.

Imagine this..

The President of the Newstates of America shall be the head of government, shaper of its commitments, expositor of its policies, and supreme commander of its protective forces; shall have one term of nine years, unless rejected by 60 percent of the electorate after three years;

That would've been 9 years of Trump..

Yes but it also would have been 9 years of Obama, and 9 years of Clinton, and you get the point.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Hhurria
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 28, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Hhurria » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 pm

YES

User avatar
Resilient Acceleration
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1139
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Resilient Acceleration » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:50 pm

A good rule of thumb: when creating a position of a strong executive, always imagine Pelosi or McConnell on that position.

2033.12.21
 TLDR News | Exclusive: GLOBAL DRONE CRISIS! "Hyper-advanced" Chinese military AI design leaked online by unknown groups, Pres. Yang issues warning of "major outbreak of 3D-printed drone swarm terrorist attacks to US civilians and assets" | Secretary Pasca to expand surveillance on all financial activities through pattern recognition AI to curb the supply chain of QAnon and other domestic terror grassroots

A near-future scenario where transhumanist tech barons and their ruthless capitalism are trying to save the planet, emphasis on "try" | Resilient Accelerationism in a nutshell | OOC

User avatar
Hhurria
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Sep 28, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Hhurria » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:58 pm

Resilient Acceleration wrote:A good rule of thumb: when creating a position of a strong executive, always imagine Pelosi or McConnell on that position.


But on the other hand: maybe a strong executive would obviate the power structures that have brought us Pelosi and McConnell. Small states = lots of one-party petty "kingdoms".

User avatar
A priori
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jul 25, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby A priori » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:32 pm

New Rogernomics wrote:We had a good run, time to shut the United States America down and reboot it with something more federalized at the national level, and make states more decentralized so that they have less ability to abuse their powers. Not going to happen though, as too many have been sucked into notions that representative democracy is better than active and direct citizen participation in government. We could spend the money we save from sacking corrupt local politicians, on education, healthcare, and maybe low-income housing.

This is a cliché my friends. Why do you think decentralization leads to less corruption? We live in a time where people are less interested in local government, in zoning boards, in town councils than they were a few decades ago? And with the decline of local news local government is absolutely assured to get more and more corrupt. Disinterest leads to corruption.

And what do you mean by "direct citizen participation" anyway? The people who are going to get involved in local plebiscites, local councils, community policing meetings are always going to be the privileged opinionated activists who have the time for that sort of thing. This is exactly what has happened in NYC where community policing just lead to restaurant owners showing up to "meet your beat cop" meetings to try and get them to harrass street vendors.

I am a populist, I believe government should serve the people. Let's tweak it so that participation in government is easiest, that is centralized into as few spheres as possible so that the working people of our country can watch them without having to be chronically online.
Defender of Turks; Yasha Kemal Pasha

User avatar
Torisakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16943
Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Torisakia » Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:16 pm

Couldn't be any worse than the current United States of America so sure why not?
You ever woke up one morning and just decided it wasn't one of those days and you were gonna break some stuff?
President: Doug McDowell
Population: 227 million
Tech: MT-PMT
I don't use most NS stats
Ideology: Democracy Manifest
Pro: truth
Anti: bullshit


Latest Headlines
[TNN] A cargo ship belonging to Torisakia disappeared off the coast of Kostane late Wednesday evening. TBI suspects foul play. || Congress passes a T$10 billion aid package for the Democratic Populist rebels in Kostane. To include firearms, vehicles, and artillery.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Cyptopir, Duvniask, Juba, Keltionialang, Likhinia, Nanatsu no Tsuki, Neu California, Sami W, Simonia

Advertisement

Remove ads