NationStates

Baltenstein wrote:

Punished UMN wrote:The negotiations weren't stopping the violence and the British were unwilling to help with peacekeeping.

I like how you keep drawing a connection between the objective of "violence in the South" to "violent conquest and ethnic cleansing of the North" to make the latter seem more legitimate, as if it were in any way a feasible solution to the former. Not only did Attila II make anti-Turkish violence in the South much worse as was completely predictable, it also resulted in pretty much eradicating the ethnic Turkish presence in the South (also, completely predictable)

Even a unilateral police action, with the sole puprpose of pacifying inter-community violence, would have been an infinitely better solution than what the Turkish leadership chose to do.

You keep portraying a Turkish leadership that had, by that point, already decided on on violent population transfer (and therefore much more violence against both Greeks and Turks in both parts of the island) and acted in complete accordance with that objective as somehow being driven by wanting to end the violence.

Punished UMN wrote:

Baltenstein wrote:
I like how you keep drawing a connection between the objective of "violence in the South" to "violent conquest and ethnic cleansing of the North" to make the latter seem more legitimate, as if it were in any way a feasible solution to the former. Not only did Attila II make anti-Turkish violence in the South much worse as was completely predictable, it also resulted in pretty much eradicating the ethnic Turkish presence in the South (also, completely predictable)

Even a unilateral police action, with the sole puprpose of pacifying inter-community violence, would have been an infinitely better solution than what the Turkish leadership chose to do.

You keep portraying a Turkish leadership that had, by that point, already decided on on violent population transfer (and therefore much more violence against both Greeks and Turks in both parts of the island) and acted in complete accordance with that objective as somehow being driven by wanting to end the violence.

To do a unilateral police action, the Turks would have had to occupy the entire island. It was a more stable and feasible solution in the near-term to have partition and population transfer, that way the Greek Cypriots got their country and the Turkish ones got another since that was clearly what the Greek Cypriots wanted in the first place.

Luziyca wrote:At this point the only viable solution to the Cypriot conflict will be to recognize the two states as sovereign, and admit both into the EU. It has been nearly fifty years since the islands were divided into two states, and frankly, if you've been independent for more than 25 years and you haven't been invaded by the country you've declared your independence from during that time (as demonstrated by Artsakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, and Transnistria), you should be recognized as a sovereign state by the international community.

It would at this point be in the best interests of both sides to establish nation-to-nation relations rather than ethnically cleanse the other side from the island, and allow all minorities displaced to return home. For better or worse, Northern Cyprus is a sovereign and independent state.

Baltenstein wrote:

Punished UMN wrote:To do a unilateral police action, the Turks would have had to occupy the entire island. It was a more stable and feasible solution in the near-term to have partition and population transfer, that way the Greek Cypriots got their country and the Turkish ones got another since that was clearly what the Greek Cypriots wanted in the first place.

"It's okay to do ethnic cleansing, since the other side also wanted it in the first place."

In your next post you will explain the logic and feasibility in bringing in illegal colonists to the occupied territories.

Punished UMN wrote:

Baltenstein wrote:
"It's okay to do ethnic cleansing, since the other side also wanted it in the first place."

In your next post you will explain the logic and feasibility in bringing in illegal colonists to the occupied territories.

No, but let's be frank here: how would Turkey occupying the entire island and restoring the status quo which led to the ethnic cleansing in the first place prevent the ethnic violence from occurring? The international community was unwilling to put together an international peacekeeping force and the negotiations were not stopping the violence, so what exactly are the options? We're agreed that the bringing in of colonists was wrong, but as for the partition of the island, I'm not sure what you think is the viable alternative that everyone was willing to have.

Baltenstein wrote:

Punished UMN wrote:No, but let's be frank here: how would Turkey occupying the entire island and restoring the status quo which led to the ethnic cleansing in the first place prevent the ethnic violence from occurring? The international community was unwilling to put together an international peacekeeping force and the negotiations were not stopping the violence, so what exactly are the options? We're agreed that the bringing in of colonists was wrong, but as for the partition of the island, I'm not sure what you think is the viable alternative that everyone was willing to have.

"You can't criticize my approach if you don't offer up a magical solution first" - that's not how it works. My issue is with your intellectual dishonesty in claiming that the second invasion was somehow an attempt to stop the violence (even from a perspective of someone who doesn't give a shit about anti-Greek violence and focuses on anti-Turkish violence only, it made the situation much worse for ethnic Turks in the South) and not the implementation of an already decided-upon course of ethnic cleansing and population transfer. Which is also the reason why Turkey and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus should not, and will not, get any sort of concessions from the international community in regards of the present-day situation. They are stuck in a situation entirely of their own making.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greek Cypriot Administration Leader Nikos Anastasiadis announced that he is ready for sanctions against Turkish Cypriots against the decision of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus regarding the opening of another part of Closed Varosha. Anastasiades said that Turkish Cypriots holding passports of the Republic of Cyprus are preparing to cancel their passports. Are you talking about restricting the gates between TRNC and Southern Cyprus? Answering the question negatively, Anastasiades noted that those who do not recognize the Republic of Cyprus talk about getting their travel documents back. “I am talking about getting the travel documents back,” Anastasiades said. "A person who does not recognize the Republic of Cyprus and claims to be his own state cannot have a passport of the Republic of Cyprus," he said.

https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2021/dunya/rum-kesiminden-kibrisli-turklere-pasaport-tehdidi-6556564/

My opinion
I think it's like Eoka's attacks on Turkish Cypriots before 1974. If they really want to unite the island, they need to abandon such policies of intimidation against the Turkish people. united cyprus or two state solution turkish cypriot lives are as precious as greek cypriots equal rights equal citizenship !

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Luziyca wrote:At this point the only viable solution to the Cypriot conflict will be to recognize the two states as sovereign, and admit both into the EU. It has been nearly fifty years since the islands were divided into two states, and frankly, if you've been independent for more than 25 years and you haven't been invaded by the country you've declared your independence from during that time (as demonstrated by Artsakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, and Transnistria), you should be recognized as a sovereign state by the international community.

It would at this point be in the best interests of both sides to establish nation-to-nation relations rather than ethnically cleanse the other side from the island, and allow all minorities displaced to return home. For better or worse, Northern Cyprus is a sovereign and independent state.

Christian Confederation wrote:

Luziyca wrote:At this point the only viable solution to the Cypriot conflict will be to recognize the two states as sovereign, and admit both into the EU. It has been nearly fifty years since the islands were divided into two states, and frankly, if you've been independent for more than 25 years and you haven't been invaded by the country you've declared your independence from during that time (as demonstrated by Artsakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, and Transnistria), you should be recognized as a sovereign state by the international community.

It would at this point be in the best interests of both sides to establish nation-to-nation relations rather than ethnically cleanse the other side from the island, and allow all minorities displaced to return home. For better or worse, Northern Cyprus is a sovereign and independent state.

Germany was devided for more than 25 years and still reunited

Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:

Christian Confederation wrote:Germany was devided for more than 25 years and still reunited

Was Germany divided on ethnic grounds? No. All these cases referenced by Luziyca involve an ethnic dimension. The German (and Vietnamese, Yemeni and Korean) situations were primarily ideological in character.

Christian Confederation wrote:

Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:Was Germany divided on ethnic grounds? No. All these cases referenced by Luziyca involve an ethnic dimension. The German (and Vietnamese, Yemeni and Korean) situations were primarily ideological in character.

Technically Cyprus with the exclusion of colonists from Greece and Turkey are Cypriots

Asherahan wrote:

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greek Cypriot Administration Leader Nikos Anastasiadis announced that he is ready for sanctions against Turkish Cypriots against the decision of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus regarding the opening of another part of Closed Varosha. Anastasiades said that Turkish Cypriots holding passports of the Republic of Cyprus are preparing to cancel their passports. Are you talking about restricting the gates between TRNC and Southern Cyprus? Answering the question negatively, Anastasiades noted that those who do not recognize the Republic of Cyprus talk about getting their travel documents back. “I am talking about getting the travel documents back,” Anastasiades said. "A person who does not recognize the Republic of Cyprus and claims to be his own state cannot have a passport of the Republic of Cyprus," he said.

https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2021/dunya/rum-kesiminden-kibrisli-turklere-pasaport-tehdidi-6556564/

My opinion
I think it's like Eoka's attacks on Turkish Cypriots before 1974. If they really want to unite the island, they need to abandon such policies of intimidation against the Turkish people. united cyprus or two state solution turkish cypriot lives are as precious as greek cypriots equal rights equal citizenship !

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We need to kick the Turkic anything out of Cyprus back to Turkey.

What this is what we Greek and Cypriots actually think.

Baltenstein wrote:

Luziyca wrote:At this point the only viable solution to the Cypriot conflict will be to recognize the two states as sovereign, and admit both into the EU. It has been nearly fifty years since the islands were divided into two states, and frankly, if you've been independent for more than 25 years and you haven't been invaded by the country you've declared your independence from during that time (as demonstrated by Artsakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, and Transnistria), you should be recognized as a sovereign state by the international community.

Northern Cyprus is hardly "independent". The fact that they continue to be a de facto puppet state of a hostile occupier is the prime reason why they haven't been recognized by anyone other than said occupier. Russia's various pet states in Ukraine and Georgia aren't going to get international recognition anytime soon either.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote: The only imperialist state on the island is the United Kingdom. It is the wound of the Ottoman Empire selling Turkish lands. I absolutely agree that cypriot upper identities should be created. Had the Annan Plan been accepted, it would have failed anyway. Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots !

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote: The only imperialist state on the island is the United Kingdom.

Berhakonia wrote:

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote: The only imperialist state on the island is the United Kingdom.

You're forgetting about the UN

Duvniask wrote:

Berhakonia wrote:
You're forgetting about the UN

What? The UN is an international organization that exists to facilitate diplomacy between the states of the world, not a state in itself; if actors within it have imperial ambitions, then these ambitions are extensions of the states that comprise the UN.

Berhakonia wrote:

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote: The only imperialist state on the island is the United Kingdom.

You're forgetting about the UN

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:

Asherahan wrote:We need to kick the Turkic anything out of Cyprus back to Turkey.

What this is what we Greek and Cypriots actually think.

You must understand that Cyprus has a land of Turks as well as Greeks. The exclusion policy of the putschist soldiers was fed with terror and it was the people of Cyprus that shed tears again. Turks are not enemies of Greeks. Turkish Cypriots are ready to unite, but the racist policies of the Greek Cypriot administration prevent this. I want to imagine a Cyprus where Greeks and Turks live together. I want to dream of a united Cyprus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9-cK8fzR8

Asherahan wrote:

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:You must understand that Cyprus has a land of Turks as well as Greeks. The exclusion policy of the putschist soldiers was fed with terror and it was the people of Cyprus that shed tears again. Turks are not enemies of Greeks. Turkish Cypriots are ready to unite, but the racist policies of the Greek Cypriot administration prevent this. I want to imagine a Cyprus where Greeks and Turks live together. I want to dream of a united Cyprus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9-cK8fzR8

I don't. Neither does anyone from Greece. If even one person aknowdleges unification with the invaders we rapidly crack down on him.

Also Long Live the EOKA.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:

Asherahan wrote:I don't. Neither does anyone from Greece. If even one person aknowdleges unification with the invaders we rapidly crack down on him.

Also Long Live the EOKA.

In the light of the European Union, Turkey and Greece will give the necessary response to terrorists. The EOKA Mentality is over, you will accept it, then you will bow to the people of Cyprus. Long live United Cyprus. The Ottoman and Greek kingdoms are over. Rome is now a Republic.

Asherahan wrote:

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:In the light of the European Union, Turkey and Greece will give the necessary response to terrorists. The EOKA Mentality is over, you will accept it, then you will bow to the people of Cyprus. Long live United Cyprus. The Ottoman and Greek kingdoms are over. Rome is now a Republic.

Ha no. no no no. Especially no because the Turkey would never allow their puppet state to unify. That would mean they would mean they have to give the now unified state of Cyrpus its own Exclusive Economic Zone.

Besides the EU will never legistlate in favor to Turkey.