Breaking News Protests across Cuba against the Cuban Regime

[Senkaku]

Given that the American empire requires a constant supply of computer chips, auto parts, clothing, home appliances, toys, narcotics, and god knows what else from its various satrapies, I hardly think it’s fair to read a small, poor, tropical island for having failed to achieve autarky.

Singapore, Hong Kong (pre-Xi), New Zealand, landlocked Switzerland, etc. have far less batural resources than Cuba yet these nations are among the most prosperous and economically free.

A free people are the most productive "resource"on the planet.

Do any of those countries “sustain themselves”? Do Singapore and Hong Kong produce all their own medical supplies? Does New Zealand produce enough oil to sustain widespread automobile use and plastic consumption by its population?

And how well do you think Singapore or Hong Kong’s economies, which have historically been dependent on shipping and trade, would do if the world’s largest economy imposed an embargo on them? You’re diagnosing Cuba’s domestic problems as being somehow a vague consequence of “socialism (progressivism),” but the embargo seems like a much more concrete and identifiable root cause. Of course a small, poor island nation that historically had little going on besides agriculture and trade is going to have economic problems if trade is cut off!

[Orostan]

Singapore, Hong Kong (pre-Xi), New Zealand, landlocked Switzerland, etc. have far less batural resources than Cuba yet these nations are among the most prosperous and economically free.

A free people are the most productive "resource"on the planet.

Do any of those countries “sustain themselves”? Do Singapore and Hong Kong produce all their own medical supplies? Does New Zealand produce enough oil to sustain widespread automobile use and plastic consumption by its population?

And how well do you think Singapore or Hong Kong’s economies, which have historically been dependent on shipping and trade, would do if the world’s largest economy imposed an embargo on them? You’re diagnosing Cuba’s domestic problems as being somehow a vague consequence of “socialism (progressivism),” but the embargo seems like a much more concrete and identifiable root cause. Of course a small, poor island nation that historically had little going on besides agriculture and trade is going to have economic problems if trade is cut off!

Ok, but have you considered 100 gorillion dead iPhone Venezuela no food?

[Salandriagado]

More or less this. Cuba has nothing to gain from regime change.

Through regime change Cuba can achieve market reform, prison reform, more press freedom, and multi-party elections that are free and fair.

How often does that actually happen after regime change?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

>free and fair elections
>meanwhile Texans are increasingly looking like they're having a variant of East German elections, only this time 67% of the ballots are guaranteed to go to the GOP.
Also Singapore is a quasi-fascist state running on State Capitalism. You can have freedom there as long as you vote for the correct party - the one in charge. I mean as long as they appear to govern their city state with competency it's ok, apart from the fact that they live off the toil of a vast underclass of migrant labourers, but to hail them as some shining example of liberal democracy in action is absurd.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

>NATO weapons are superior
>The entire Rhine Front of 1991 linked together by Belgians manning tanks made in 1956.
>Right where the main penetration was going to come from.
>Entire BAOR incapable of movement because their 60% of their tanks are in the workshops with broken engines.

[Kowani]

Cuba's Vice-Minister of the Interior, Jesús Manuel Burón Tabit, just resigned

[South Welford]

So the Cuban government is obliged to nestle just under the brutalities of Batista and previous US presidents? If we’re being pragmatic and not, y’know, sensible, you have to think of the optics here. This excludes the incompetence of Havana that you’re presuming. If anything, you hurt your own argument.

Interesting article on Cuban life expectancy

“ Roughly half of deaths in stillbirths occur before actual birth. If Cuba relies on frequent exams, they might discover more late fetal deaths and induce premature births, counted as late fetal deaths instead of stillbirths (counted separately from neonatal, infant, child deaths.) Cuba has 6/1000 stillbirths, 2-3× less than Jamaica or Dominican Republic. (WHO) That interpretation does not require assumption that Cubans falsify the data. We cannot know the truth, but I tend to believe to CIA. Catholic priests know how many baptisms and child funerals they organized, they probably routinely report it to their superiors, it cannot be particularly impenetrable secret.”

From the comments of that article. Even if we take everything there as true, the Cuban life expectancy is still very good compared to the USA. I should also remind you that econlib is basically a propaganda organization - you’d hardly consider me credible if I cited an organization funded by another organization aligned with the Cuban government.

I’m more so highlighting the linked study. I encourage you to give a Cuban viewpoint, as academic variety is a good thing. The country does well in other compartments, so to speak.

[Omniabstracta]

Cuba's Vice-Minister of the Interior, Jesús Manuel Burón Tabit, just resigned

Tweet was deleted, so here is another news article for this until more information comes out.

[Orostan]

1) China’s economy is majority state controlled - their anti-poverty programs aren’t reliant on free market magic, they’re reliant on state policy. Economic planning, to put it another way.

2) Capital is absolutely parasitic. Free markets have not existed for most of history and as such can’t be said to represent any part of human nature - they didn’t even emerge “organically”. They came about due to humans making conscious choices, not just existing. Markets are also far from voluntary, they force people to take part by forcing them to do wage labor to buy food. What individual rights does someone who can barely make ends meet have? What individual rights did the first class of real industrial wage workers that were forced off subsistence farms and into towns by the enclosure acts have?

3) Everywhere there are “free markets” there is only free capital and you have repression. Do you think the USA if it really did have representative government of the people would have such a bad healthcare system? Would more than half a million Americans have died of COVID under a really representative government? Would we have universal healthcare and free higher education as public opinion overwhelmingly supports?

4) The Soviet Union went from a backwards feudalistic country to a nuclear superpower with the second largest economy in the world in 30 years. Socialist governments have done the best at destroying poverty and illiteracy.

Maybe the US government represents you if you want endless war and a tyranny of Wall Street but it sure as hell doesn’t represent me, and your free market doesn’t seem very free to me either.

Point of fact, China was impoverished for decades until Deng Xiaoping introduced a small measure of free market reforms into the economy that led to the present expansion.

I am always amused when Marxists cite the Soviet union as an example of Marxist success. Point of fact, the Soviet union collapsed. It collapsed because it's economy was bankrupted by excessive spending on inferior weaponry. Notably that Marxist weaponry didn't stand up in a test against American weaponry.

I am not amused when leftist defend murderous regimes like those in Cuba and the former Soviet union.

I am not amused when leftist cite capital, which is part of every society including Marxist society, as exploitative. Indeed it is explotative when is owned by the state where people don't have the freedom or wherewithal to compete against the murderous coercive monopoly of the state

Within a free market society competition is present. If someone feels they are exploited they can compete or they can move to a different company. I'm always amused by billionaire Leftists accusing free markets of exploitation but they never take advantage of underpriced labor to create their own firm and undercut those greedy capitalist firms. Or if they take advantage of the market they do so by rent seeking from there benefactors in the government bureaucracy. Deed it was leftists like Obama, Biden, Kerry, Clinton, et al. that voted to bailout Wall St with Main St living standards. Free marketers like myself vehemently oppose the wall street bail outs, we wanted these companies to fail or succeed on their own merit. markets are not a utopian system but it is far better than the course of Monopoly of government forced on the citizenry by Marxism.

lastly it is grand ignorance to think that a bureaucrat or bureaucrats can manage something as simple as the manufacturing of a single product more effectively than the invisible hand of the market. Moreover a bureaucrat and a politician does not have a vested interest in the success of any enterprise like a free market entrepreneur does. The bureaucrat and politician within a leftist system depends on the gun to maintain power.

in contrast, the free market entrepreneur exercises far more due diligence then a bureaucrat who doesn't have a stake in the firm. In contrast collectivist command economies run by coercion are incredibly inefficient that's why you always see shortages and situation is like occurring in Cuba today

1) Deng didn’t just install capitalism and Mao laid the groundwork for everything China accomplished after him - there was a massive increase in life expectancy under Mao and the country began industrializing. Deng’s economy was dominated by the state and not the “free market”

2) The Soviet Union collapsed and became capitalist causing millions of unnecessary deaths and a good portion of its population to be thrown into poverty. From its foundation to the late 50s when socialism in the USSR was strongest the country made its greatest progress. The USSR didn’t fall because “Marxism” it fell because it’s “middle management” became corrupt and took over the country, destroying it so they could make more money.

3) Capital in this context refers to a specific social entity. Capital under the system that’s named after it wants to reproduce and make more capital. When I say capital is parasitic, I mean that production under capitalism goes to make more capital and make capitalists wealthier rather than benefit the people that make all that capital: the working class.

4) Kerry, Obama, and Clinton are not leftists. Bill Clinton bombed Yugoslavia and deregulated banks, Hillary supported every war and neoliberal trade deal. Obama destroyed Libya and described himself as a moderate republican from the 90s. They voted to bail out wall street because there isn’t actually such a thing as a “free market” anymore. Bailing out Wall Street was a great help to the monopoly capital that has dominated the world for more than a century now. Giant capitalist business will never fail or succeed “on their own merit”, they exist because they are most efficient at generating more capital regardless of workers rights, quality of their goods, or anything else. Monopoly and regulatory capture is a natural outcome of capitalism.

Furthermore “just move to a different country” and “just start your own business” are not solutions to any problem. Most Americans can barely make ends meet - they’re in no position to do either even if they want to. I would be surprised if you can point me to a single billionaire leftist, you don’t get to a billion dollars without being an exploitative bastard. Leftists are mostly that “underpriced labor” billionaires love to exploit.


5) The “invisible hand” doesn’t manage shit. People do. The capitalist ultimately depends on the police force and army to prevent people from just taking what they want from society. You can’t just have bread, you have to pay for it. Under communism when the means of production are held in common there is no need for a state to hold a gun to your head saying that you must do wage labor or starve.

Marxism didn’t create the modern state, “free marketers” did to support their own class interests. Communists want to abolish the state eventually.

[Orostan]

Is it not absurd and ironic that leftists are opposed to private sector monopolies yet willingly embrace the economy encompassing, ubiquitous monopoly of coercive government?

Indeed I always laugh when I ask a leftist who is more dangerous to their liberty, the federal government or Walmart.

They stutter and stammer, or go mute, cite Walmart, or their head explodes.

The left is indeed insane

>but da gubbermint

Capitalism is a coercive system and invented the modern coercive state. Walmart doesn’t seem all that dangerous to your liberty until you try and unionize and they have the federal government send in the army to shoot you.

A hundred years ago in the US workers were fighting and dying for the weekend, for healthcare, and for higher pay. What threatened their liberty most was the entire system of capitalism which INCLUDES the federal government as the enforcer of the capitalist class.

[South Welford]

Is it not absurd and ironic that leftists are opposed to private sector monopolies yet willingly embrace the economy encompassing, ubiquitous monopoly of coercive government?

Indeed I always laugh when I ask a leftist who is more dangerous to their liberty, the federal government or Walmart.

They stutter and stammer, or go mute, cite Walmart, or their head explodes.

The left is indeed insane

>but da gubbermint

Capitalism is a coercive system and invented the modern coercive state. Walmart doesn’t seem all that dangerous to your liberty until you try and unionize and they have the federal government send in the army to shoot you.

A hundred years ago in the US workers were fighting and dying for the weekend, for healthcare, and for higher pay. What threatened their liberty most was the entire system of capitalism which INCLUDES the federal government as the enforcer of the capitalist class.

What existed before the modern coercive state, would you say?

[Orostan]

>but da gubbermint

Capitalism is a coercive system and invented the modern coercive state. Walmart doesn’t seem all that dangerous to your liberty until you try and unionize and they have the federal government send in the army to shoot you.

A hundred years ago in the US workers were fighting and dying for the weekend, for healthcare, and for higher pay. What threatened their liberty most was the entire system of capitalism which INCLUDES the federal government as the enforcer of the capitalist class.

What existed before the modern coercive state, would you say?

The feudal or early capitalist coercive state.

[South Welford]

What existed before the modern coercive state, would you say?

The feudal or early capitalist coercive state.

Does an early capitalist coercive state then precede* a coercive system of capitalism? On that same note, did feudalism simply transition to capitalism smoothly?

[Orostan]

The feudal or early capitalist coercive state.

Does an early capitalist coercive state then proceed a coercive system of capitalism? On that same note, did feudalism simply transition to capitalism smoothly?

No, in many places the feudalist state was destroyed by liberal capitalist revolutions that had the working class and capitalist class on the same side at the start at least. The French Revolution was one of these conflicts. Capitalism in all cases predated the capitalist state - you had to have capitalists or wealthy merchants first to make the capitalist state make any sense.

[Senkaku]

The feudal or early capitalist coercive state.

Does an early capitalist coercive state then precede* a coercive system of capitalism? On that same note, did feudalism simply transition to capitalism smoothly?

I also like to consume all my political theory from NSGers’ effortpost answers to my questions in threads about current events

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

This is all well and good, but now back to Cuban news please.

[South Welford]

Does an early capitalist coercive state then proceed a coercive system of capitalism? On that same note, did feudalism simply transition to capitalism smoothly?

No, in many places the feudalist state was destroyed by liberal capitalist revolutions that had the working class and capitalist class on the same side at the start at least. The French Revolution was one of these conflicts. Capitalism in all cases predated the capitalist state - you had to have capitalists or wealthy merchants first to make the capitalist state make any sense.

How fascinating. I recently watched a video about merchant guilds and their impact on industrialization. It’s a segway, sure, but you might find it an interesting topic for the side.

My main qualm, alas, with the application of villainy is whether any directed ideology is in fact isolated to blame. Feudalism, capitalism, communism, a common feature is their imperfect application in society. It’s why you have so much variance in their proponents, including, I understand, much of the discord among proponents of certain communist states, as covered here.

You yourself stated a specific group of people needed to pre-date capitalism. This, then, does not seem like a flaw that can be isolated of capitalism, as it formed violently or otherwise of something else. Beyond this point we get something so broad that it’s hard to pinpoint the isms much earlier in human history, perhaps.

Of course, it hardly helps that our American flagged friend is quite abrupt about things. Ultimately, I’d advance that this whole question of capitalism and communism practically boils down to similar flaws. Left leaning proponents and their opposing counterparts may often bicker on the “real ness” of certain countries to an ideology because of this. Instead, perhaps a good question is which of varying systems best allows regular people to work with what makes humans humans.

On the note of Cuba, how does that apply in light of these events? Compared to, say, social upheaval in the US?

[Orostan]

No, in many places the feudalist state was destroyed by liberal capitalist revolutions that had the working class and capitalist class on the same side at the start at least. The French Revolution was one of these conflicts. Capitalism in all cases predated the capitalist state - you had to have capitalists or wealthy merchants first to make the capitalist state make any sense.

How fascinating. I recently watched a video about merchant guilds and their impact on industrialization. It’s a segway, sure, but you might find it an interesting topic for the side.

My main qualm, alas, with the application of villainy is whether any directed ideology is in fact isolated to blame. Feudalism, capitalism, communism, a common feature is their imperfect application in society. It’s why you have so much variance in their proponents, including, I understand, much of the discord among proponents of certain communist states, as covered here.

You yourself stated a specific group of people needed to pre-date capitalism. This, then, does not seem like a flaw that can be isolated of capitalism, as it formed violently or otherwise of something else. Beyond this point we get something so broad that it’s hard to pinpoint the isms much earlier in human history, perhaps.

Of course, it hardly helps that our American flagged friend is quite abrupt about things. Ultimately, I’d advance that this whole question of capitalism and communism practically boils down to similar flaws. Left leaning proponents and their opposing counterparts may often bicker on the “real ness” of certain countries to an ideology because of this. Instead, perhaps a good question is which of varying systems best allows regular people to work with what makes humans humans.

On the note of Cuba, how does that apply in light of these events? Compared to, say, social upheaval in the US?

1) That sounds interesting!

2) I don’t believe capitalist ideology did anything, it’s produced by its environment. I think capitalism as a system is the big problem - whatever it invents to keep itself alive is important but still secondary to the actual existence of capitalism.

3) A specific social system Marxists call primitive accumulation - colonialism in other words - was needed to start industrial capitalism in Europe. Before that there was the feudalism we all know, and before that there was the slave society of the sumerians to the Romans which was much more centralized than feudalism. Before that even was hunting and gathering in a system of primitive communism.

4) Social issues in Cuba are caused mostly by the crippling embargo and exacerbated by the CIA. This is not to say they’ve solved class war - they have to watch out for the same middle management guys that destroyed the USSR but so far I think they’re doing an alright job of that. Social upheaval in the US though is primarily class based and as the US empire declines I think that conflict will intensify.

[Greater Miami Shores]

The OP and for the Post Thread Record:
Cuban-Americans Flood Cities Nationwide Calling for End to Communism.

A few excerpts and many great video links.
In response to the protests, the face of the Castro regime, Miguel Díaz-Canel, issued an “order of combat” urging communist vigilantes to violently attack anyone peacefully protesting in their neighborhoods, essentially calling for civil war. The Cuban government shut down internet access nearly nationwide, making it difficult to track police activity, but dissident groups fear hundreds are missing and dozens dead after police began opening fire on crowds of protesters and detaining people in door-to-door raids.

NORTH BERGEN, New Jersey – Hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Cuban-Americans have convened for peaceful assemblies nationwide this week in solidarity with their kin on the island, who have flooded the streets of nearly every major Cuban city since Sunday demanding an end to the communist regime.

https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america ... communism/

[Communal concils]

The OP and for the Post Thread Record:
Cuban-Americans Flood Cities Nationwide Calling for End to Communism.

A few excerpts and many great video links.
In response to the protests, the face of the Castro regime, Miguel Díaz-Canel, issued an “order of combat” urging communist vigilantes to violently attack anyone peacefully protesting in their neighborhoods, essentially calling for civil war. The Cuban government shut down internet access nearly nationwide, making it difficult to track police activity, but dissident groups fear hundreds are missing and dozens dead after police began opening fire on crowds of protesters and detaining people in door-to-door raids.

NORTH BERGEN, New Jersey – Hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Cuban-Americans have convened for peaceful assemblies nationwide this week in solidarity with their kin on the island, who have flooded the streets of nearly every major Cuban city since Sunday demanding an end to the communist regime.

https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america ... communism/

1. These Cuban exiles are mostly from the generation that supported the Batista military dictatorship. That the fact that many of them were fine with the January 6 insurrection and aggressive hatred for BLM is probably a big reason why they are in Florida in the first place. They don't care about democracy, and would mostly turned Cuba into Haiti 2.0.

2. Breitbart is a far-right source.

[New Odrana]

The OP and for the Post Thread Record:
Cuban-Americans Flood Cities Nationwide Calling for End to Communism.

A few excerpts and many great video links.
In response to the protests, the face of the Castro regime, Miguel Díaz-Canel, issued an “order of combat” urging communist vigilantes to violently attack anyone peacefully protesting in their neighborhoods, essentially calling for civil war. The Cuban government shut down internet access nearly nationwide, making it difficult to track police activity, but dissident groups fear hundreds are missing and dozens dead after police began opening fire on crowds of protesters and detaining people in door-to-door raids.

NORTH BERGEN, New Jersey – Hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Cuban-Americans have convened for peaceful assemblies nationwide this week in solidarity with their kin on the island, who have flooded the streets of nearly every major Cuban city since Sunday demanding an end to the communist regime.

https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america ... communism/

1. These Cuban exiles are mostly from the generation that supported the Batista military dictatorship. That the fact that many of them were fine with the January 6 insurrection and aggressive hatred for BLM is probably a big reason why they are in Florida in the first place. They don't care about democracy, and would mostly turned Cuba into Haiti 2.0.

2. Breitbart is a far-right source.

Their claims of opposing violence are also pretty rich considering that violence against political opponents is not at all unheard of in the Cuban-American community. This is why our country's blanket policy of accepting Cuban "refugees" was a massive mistake. Latin American culture is completely incompatible with Anglo-American culture. Violence is far more tolerated and acceptable when you come from a country that's been mired in decades of authoritarianism and caudillos.

[Chernoslavia]

So apparently protesting pandemic restrictions means it's time for regime change?

It was time for a regime change since 1959 lmao.

[Immortan Khan]

Political violence has a long history in American politics lmao.

[Immortan Khan]

1. These Cuban exiles are mostly from the generation that supported the Batista military dictatorship.

So?

[Communal concils]

1. These Cuban exiles are mostly from the generation that supported the Batista military dictatorship.

So?

It means that they do not believe in "democracy". If your a hypocrite in politics, then its a good sign that your only in it for money. You must be truthful about what you are, or else history shows the consequences.