Breaking News Protests across Cuba against the Cuban Regime

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm not in favor of regime change intervention, but I highly doubt that claim. It's a single party authoritarian state that has just arrested bunch of protesters and doesn't allow other parties to have a say in government. That is in contrast to multi-party western democracies in Europe.

Having multiple political parties doesn't make any country more democratic than one that only has one. All that's doing is expanding the overton window and kneecapping the effectiveness of the government, which is especially bad for ideologically Socialist countries, because the first and most important concern of the governments of those countries is taking care of the masses.

And, regardless, the Cuban system is very democratic. The sources are in the video description.

I just looked at those sources, and many of them are state owned propaganda outlets from Venezuela as well as other shady organizations. One of which, globalreasearch.ca is owned by a conspiracy theorist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

Those are not reputable sources.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The system the Western world relies on in general is becoming more and more of a liability tbqh... just look at how many Western politicians gets bought by megacorps or even join megacorps after their career. It's pretty much the thing that's hampering us from doing anything about crisis's from COVID19 to Climate Change.

[Torrocca]

Having multiple political parties doesn't make any country more democratic than one that only has one. All that's doing is expanding the overton window and kneecapping the effectiveness of the government, which is especially bad for ideologically Socialist countries, because the first and most important concern of the governments of those countries is taking care of the masses.

And, regardless, the Cuban system is very democratic. The sources are in the video description.

I just looked at those sources, and many of them are state owned propaganda outlets from Venezuela as well as other shady organizations. One of which, globalreasearch.ca is owned by a conspiracy theorist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

Those are not reputable sources.

The Venezuelan sources you're referring to are the photo credits, unrelated to the actual citations. I'll grant you that the globalresearch.ca citation is iffy, but the other urls in the actual citations (not the photo credits) are for a Swedish organization and a UK one. The rest are books by a number of different authors.

EDIT: Additionally, the video itself touches up on stuff such as Cuba's own constitution and features interviews with and quotes from actual Cubans who have experienced this system, which I forgot to mention but is a very important thing of note.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I just looked at those sources, and many of them are state owned propaganda outlets from Venezuela as well as other shady organizations. One of which, globalreasearch.ca is owned by a conspiracy theorist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

Those are not reputable sources.

The Venezuelan sources you're referring to are the photo credits, unrelated to the actual citations. I'll grant you that the globalresearch.ca citation is iffy, but the other urls in the actual citations (not the photo credits) are for a Swedish organization and a UK one. The rest are books by a number of different authors.

EDIT: Additionally, the video itself touches up on stuff such as Cuba's own constitution and features interviews with and quotes from actual Cubans who have experienced this system, which I forgot to mention but is a very important thing of note.

And the soviets had model inmates that would tell you how great the gulags were; it's not as useful as you think. Hell, I can probably find some Americans who think our system is perfect when it isn't, or that Trump is the true winner of the election. That means nothing. Cuba solidarity is iffy as well and so is the Swedish source, this is tankie tier crap. No torture in Cuba? my ass. Human rights organizations will put that to rest, and it's not like they don't criticize the U.S. for our less than stellar record. In fact, our ridiculous sanctions are criticized in that same article.

These are tankie-tier sources that are questionable at best.

[Torrocca]

The Venezuelan sources you're referring to are the photo credits, unrelated to the actual citations. I'll grant you that the globalresearch.ca citation is iffy, but the other urls in the actual citations (not the photo credits) are for a Swedish organization and a UK one. The rest are books by a number of different authors.

EDIT: Additionally, the video itself touches up on stuff such as Cuba's own constitution and features interviews with and quotes from actual Cubans who have experienced this system, which I forgot to mention but is a very important thing of note.

And the soviets had model inmates that would tell you how great the gulags were; it's not as useful as you think. Hell, I can probably find some Americans who think our system is perfect when it isn't, or that Trump is the true winner of the election. That means nothing. Cuba solidarity is iffy as well and so is the Swedish source, this is tankie tier crap. No torture in Cuba? my ass. Human rights organizations will put that to rest, and it's not like they don't criticize the U.S. for our less than stellar record. In fact, our ridiculous sanctions are criticized in that same article.

These are tankie-tier sources that are questionable at best.

Of course anecdotes aren't the best standard of evidence. I only mentioned the fact that they're in the video because they show something different than the anecdotal shit spewed by OP. Even still, that doesn't invalidate the Cuban Constitution or the sheer fact of the matter that Cuba absolutely has a democratic system (rather than this completely mischaracterized understanding of Cuba that it's nothing more than an "authoritarian" state as you suggested), and one that, for that matter, is much more involved at the local/grassroots level, which arguably is one of the most important things that make or break a democratic system.

And Amnesty International is untrustworthy based simply on the fact that it had (and likely still has, given how this shit works) covert support from the UK's Foreign Office.

But, you are right. There is torture in Cuba.

[Gravlen]

The Venezuelan sources you're referring to are the photo credits, unrelated to the actual citations. I'll grant you that the globalresearch.ca citation is iffy, but the other urls in the actual citations (not the photo credits) are for a Swedish organization and a UK one. The rest are books by a number of different authors.

EDIT: Additionally, the video itself touches up on stuff such as Cuba's own constitution and features interviews with and quotes from actual Cubans who have experienced this system, which I forgot to mention but is a very important thing of note.

And the soviets had model inmates that would tell you how great the gulags were; it's not as useful as you think. Hell, I can probably find some Americans who think our system is perfect when it isn't, or that Trump is the true winner of the election. That means nothing. Cuba solidarity is iffy as well and so is the Swedish source, this is tankie tier crap. No torture in Cuba? my ass. Human rights organizations will put that to rest, and it's not like they don't criticize the U.S. for our less than stellar record. In fact, our ridiculous sanctions are criticized in that same article.

These are tankie-tier sources that are questionable at best.

Did you provide the wrong link? That Amnesty International page makes no mention of torture.

[The Reformed American Republic]

And the soviets had model inmates that would tell you how great the gulags were; it's not as useful as you think. Hell, I can probably find some Americans who think our system is perfect when it isn't, or that Trump is the true winner of the election. That means nothing. Cuba solidarity is iffy as well and so is the Swedish source, this is tankie tier crap. No torture in Cuba? my ass. Human rights organizations will put that to rest, and it's not like they don't criticize the U.S. for our less than stellar record. In fact, our ridiculous sanctions are criticized in that same article.

These are tankie-tier sources that are questionable at best.

Did you provide the wrong link? That Amnesty International page makes no mention of torture.

Of course I did, and probably confused two articles as well, and now I'm blessed with not being to find the article. Ops, but I have a source about institutionalized beatings which probably would qualify as torture though as well as a reference to torture against a dissident: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/c ... ters/cuba#

On August 3, dissident José Daniel Ferrer, who founded the Patriotic Union of Cuba (UNPACU) in 2011—upon his release from eight years in prison—was arrested along with activist Ebert Hidalgo and charged with “attempted murder” when the car he was driving struck a Ministry of Interior official. Activists have said the charges are a farce and witnesses allege that the official threw himself in front of the car intentionally, only to get up and ride off on his motorcycle. Upon his release 12 days later, Hidalgo reported having been psychologically tortured and held in harsh conditions in a dark, dirty cell.

On August 9, Alejandro Pupo Echemendía died in police custody at Placetas, Villa Clara, while under investigation for a crime related to horse racing. Family members say his body showed signs of severe beatings; authorities contend he threw himself against a wall and died of a heart attack. Allegations have surfaced of family members and witnesses being coerced to withdraw their initial statements and to confirm the official version.

And it's not like there haven't been other and prior torture reports either: https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-06.htm


https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/am ... 9/2019/en/


Disclaimer: I'm not for "regime change" nor defending the even worse regime under Batista.

[Fahran]

I wasn't taking about Apartheid South Africa or Zimbabwe. Cuba was probably involved with the destabilization of non-Apartheid governments like pre-Chavez Venezuela.

Oh, they absolutely were. That's not even a question. I was pointing to the very narrow set of countries and regions where the statement had some legitimacy, but, as I pointed out, on a broad level, Cuba tended to stir up trouble against any salient faction or government that was anti-Soviet.

[Fahran]

I didn't know Mexico was against the U.S.. Maybe because of the wall?

Mexico was, more or less, a one-party state, usually left-leaning - they even hosted Trotsky, with resentment against the US for around seventy years. AMLO is from a political party inspired by some of the more left-wing dictators from that time period. Lazaro Cardenas in particular. Cardenas was pretty decent though, all things considered.

It's more likely Mexico thinks the sanctions are dumb and wants to support a fellow Latin American country that's getting bullied by the US.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I wasn't taking about Apartheid South Africa or Zimbabwe. Cuba was probably involved with the destabilization of non-Apartheid governments like pre-Chavez Venezuela.

Oh, they absolutely were. That's not even a question. I was pointing to the very narrow set of countries and regions where the statement had some legitimacy, but, as I pointed out, on a broad level, Cuba tended to stir up trouble against any salient faction or government that was anti-Soviet.

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not claiming that Cuba did not fight Apartheid, but rather, I disliked that being the main characterization of Cuba's foreign policy. It was to paint the regime as liberators and a fighting force for pure good.

[Fahran]

I don't think so? Cuban refugees are very, very good ammo for the US's propaganda machine, since that just completely ignores the US's complicity in why they're fleeing into the country to begin with.

While the US has exacerbated the situation with sanctions, Cuba's economy and government contribute quite a lot to the recurrent economic problems. They need to liberalize like China, Mexico, and Vietnam did because the present command economy is a disaster beyond a few select sectors. Democratization, while not necessary, would probably be a step in the right direction and might even get Cuban-Americans and the US government to lay off the long-running feud. Can't claim Cuba's a brutal dictatorship if they allow free and fair elections for the first time since Castro seized power.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I don't think so? Cuban refugees are very, very good ammo for the US's propaganda machine, since that just completely ignores the US's complicity in why they're fleeing into the country to begin with.

While the US has exacerbated the situation with sanctions, Cuba's economy and government contribute quite a lot to the recurrent economic problems. They need to liberalize like China, Mexico, and Vietnam did because the present command economy is a disaster beyond a few select sectors. Democratization, while not necessary, would probably be a step in the right direction and might even get Cuban-Americans and the US government to lay off the long-running feud. Can't claim Cuba's a brutal dictatorship if they allow free and fair elections for the first time since Castro seized power.

China did not liberalize except economically, which is not they type of liberalization that people need. It's just as authoritarian as ever, only now corporations can invest and get around regulations.

[Fahran]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not claiming that Cuba did not fight Apartheid, but rather, I disliked that being the main characterization of Cuba's foreign policy. It was to paint the regime as liberators and a fighting force for pure good.

Oh, no. I absolutely got your point. I largely agree with it actually. I was just elaborating on what was likely meant by our colleagues' posts and then explaining why I disagreed with them. Cuba was promoting Marxism-Leninism. That they viewed this as a moral good does not mean it was. Millions of people probably died due to those wars - many of them needlessly and to install corrupt and brutal dictatorships.

[Fahran]

China did not liberalize except economically, which is not they type of liberalization that people need. It's just as authoritarian as ever, only now corporations can invest and get around regulations.

Economic liberalization seems to be useful in providing sustenance and the basic needs of a significant majority of a nation's people under proper circumstances. If you're a dictator who wants to keep power, it can often give you a couple of decades to sort out everything else when you have protests breaking out due to shortages and such. Just as long as you don't resort to shock therapy and collapse your economy. And you can actually compete in an open market. Xi's probably not at serious risk of getting Gadhaffi'd anytime soon as an example.

[The Reformed American Republic]

China did not liberalize except economically, which is not they type of liberalization that people need. It's just as authoritarian as ever, only now corporations can invest and get around regulations.

Economic liberalization seems to be useful in providing sustenance and the basic needs of a significant majority of a nation's people under proper circumstances. If you're a dictator who wants to keep power, it can often give you a couple of decades to sort out everything else when you have protests breaking out due to shortages and such. Just as long as you don't resort to shock therapy and collapse your economy. And you can actually compete in an open market. Xi's probably not at serious risk of getting Gadhaffi'd anytime soon as an example.

Still, even if I'm wrong, it is not a democracy, and thus I wouldn't say it "liberalized."

[Fauzjhia]

Economic liberalization seems to be useful in providing sustenance and the basic needs of a significant majority of a nation's people under proper circumstances. If you're a dictator who wants to keep power, it can often give you a couple of decades to sort out everything else when you have protests breaking out due to shortages and such. Just as long as you don't resort to shock therapy and collapse your economy. And you can actually compete in an open market. Xi's probably not at serious risk of getting Gadhaffi'd anytime soon as an example.

Still, even if I'm wrong, it is not a democracy, and thus I wouldn't say it "liberalized."

its simply a good friend for our business, who can get cheap labor, since the American people will not accept cheap labor, while Chinese does not really have any choice, they don't have freedom of association, they don't get to defend themselves.

[Saiwania]

I'm sure that's exactly what the people of Cuba want.

I don't care about what the people of Cuba wants if I could back American empire instead. Besides which, I still consider Libya as it is now to be an improvement from how it was previously. Although, would concede that its had some rough growing pains because its taken a lot of time for the new governing system to stabilize.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm sure that's exactly what the people of Cuba want.

I don't care about what the people of Cuba wants if I could back American empire instead. Besides which, I still consider Libya as it is now to be an improvement from how it was previously. Although, would concede that its had some rough growing pains because its taken a lot of time for the new governing system to stabilize.

You can just admit you don't know anything about Libya lol

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

I'm sure that's exactly what the people of Cuba want.

I don't care about what the people of Cuba wants if I could back American empire instead. Besides which, I still consider Libya as it is now to be an improvement from how it was previously. Although, would concede that its had some rough growing pains because its taken a lot of time for the new governing system to stabilize.

You speak as if these "growing pains" are over. Libya is, and will always be a mess now. This new government of national unity or whatever it's called this time isn't going to work.

[Gim]

I didn't know Mexico was against the U.S.. Maybe because of the wall?

Mexico was, more or less, a one-party state, usually left-leaning - they even hosted Trotsky, with resentment against the US for around seventy years. AMLO is from a political party inspired by some of the more left-wing dictators from that time period. Lazaro Cardenas in particular. Cardenas was pretty decent though, all things considered.

It's more likely Mexico thinks the sanctions are dumb and wants to support a fellow Latin American country that's getting bullied by the US.

Maybe, it wants to form a southern bloc against the U.S.
To be honest, I think Mexico should side with the U.S. to be against China.

[Torrocca]

I don't think so? Cuban refugees are very, very good ammo for the US's propaganda machine, since that just completely ignores the US's complicity in why they're fleeing into the country to begin with.

While the US has exacerbated the situation with sanctions, Cuba's economy and government contribute quite a lot to the recurrent economic problems. They need to liberalize like China, Mexico, and Vietnam did because the present command economy is a disaster beyond a few select sectors. Democratization, while not necessary, would probably be a step in the right direction and might even get Cuban-Americans and the US government to lay off the long-running feud. Can't claim Cuba's a brutal dictatorship if they allow free and fair elections for the first time since Castro seized power.

You seem to be ignoring the very, very obvious fact of the matter that if Cuba even tries doing what you're suggesting that they'll be absolutely ratfucked by the US, which still wants to turn them back into a puppet for their economic interests, wellbeing of the Cuban people be damned. There's no evidence that Cuba's model of planning the economy or its government are causes for its economic problems, and you can't claim it is when there's no current way to actually prove that, simply because of how much they're already being ratfucked by the USA's embargo; in fact, evidence points toward the contrary as far as Cuba's planned economy goes. If this embargo happened to a country with a Capitalist-style economy, that shit would've absolutely collapsed within a few years. Speaking of which, that embargo? Doing a whole lot more than simply "exacerbating" the situation there. Do you even know the fine details of the embargo? Because I'm sure if you realized, say, for instance, that any company or country that does trade with Cuba is liable to be sanctioned itself, even if it doesn't do business with the US, that you'd see just how fucked and horrific this embargo actually is.

Just to give you a clearer picture on what these sanctions do, before you go rambling more about "muh ebul commies in cuba" and downplaying the exact nature of these fucked-up sanctions: when somewhat similar sanctions were placed on Iraq, which was able to ration food like Cuba has, there were still half a million excess deaths of children under 5 years old from 1990 to 1999, and widespread malnutrition and disease among most of the rest of the population of the country. Now imagine how much worse it's been for Cuba and its people, which, despite all that, have managed to have a life expectancy higher than the United States.

And quit claiming Cuba's a dictatorship. It's obvious you're not alluding to the fact that it's a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (which is something entirely different, of course, from the bog-standard idea of dictatorship), and the evidence very simply isn't on your side.

[Torrocca]

I'm sure that's exactly what the people of Cuba want.

I don't care about what the people of Cuba wants if I could back American empire instead. Besides which, I still consider Libya as it is now to be an improvement from how it was previously. Although, would concede that its had some rough growing pains because its taken a lot of time for the new governing system to stabilize.

You could say in fewer words that you prefer open-air slave markets to a free and equitable society.

[Picairn]

It's worth remembering that this embargo isn't a full blockade. While there are no doubt many barriers to trade between Cuba and foreign companies imposed by the US and it can potentially sanction US-based companies for trading with Cuba, food and humanitarian products have been authorized for export to Cuba by Bill Clinton since 2000. Countries can also trade with Cuba at their will without effective US interference: as of 2019 China (38%), Spain (11%), Netherlands (5%), Germany (5%) are Cuba's top exporters, with a variety of goods such as cigars, raw sugar, nickel products, rum, and zinc. Cuba also imports from the following countries: Spain (19%), China (15%), Italy (6%), Canada (5%), Russia (5%), United States (5%), Brazil (5%). Is that the US on the list? Yes, it turns out that Cuba imports agricultural products from the US. In 2020 the US exported $176.8 million worth of goods to Cuba and imported $14.9 in return. Additionally, Cuba has been a member of WTO since 1995.

So if the impact of the trade embargo isn't so large as some may claim, are Cuba's own economic policies partly responsible for the current situation? I'm inclined to agree, given that Cuba suffered the harshest economic period when the USSR stopped aid in 1991 (and forced Cuba to fend for itself), not after the US imposed the embargo. Cuba was still chugging along comfortably throughout the Cold War, despite the difficulties of central plannning, thanks to massive Soviet aid and investment, another strike at the embargo. A survey of US economists in 2012 went even further, saying that Cuba's economic policies are more to blame for its woes than the embargo, with a supermajority of economists strongly agree or agree, only a small part had no opinion and none disagreed.

No doubt, the effects of US trade embargo on Cuba's economy are well-documented, but there are certain nuances here. It also exposes nicely how the US' grip on the world economy isn't as strong and almighty, given that many countries are willing to trade despite US disincentives.

Sources:
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/cuba/
https://web.archive.org/web/20210423062 ... c2390.html
https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/co ... cuba_e.htm
https://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/cubas-economy/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2 ... _relations
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... e-context/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 954883002/

[Torrocca]

It's worth remembering that this embargo isn't a full blockade. While there are no doubt many barriers to trade between Cuba and foreign companies imposed by the US and it can potentially sanction US-based companies for trading with Cuba, food and humanitarian products have been authorized for export to Cuba by Bill Clinton since 2000.

Food and humanitarian products are authorized, but ships that dock in Cuba are still barred from US ports for half a year, which, for the most part, HEAVILY disincentivizes trading even those goods to Cuba. Not to mention the recent sanctions put in place by Trump have prevented things such as syringes and vaccines from going to the country.

Countries can also trade with Cuba at their will without effective US interference: as of 2019 China (38%),

China hosts the vast majority of industry for US corporations, and it's still more or less ideologically aligned with Cuba despite Deng Xiaoping's reforms in the 70s, so it's no surprise it has more leeway here.

Spain (11%), Netherlands (5%), Germany (5%) are Cuba's top exporters, with a variety of goods such as cigars, raw sugar, nickel products, rum, and zinc.

Those three countries are united via the EU, which gives them a little bit of leeway in deviating from the US. They've had more in recent years as well, with how much Trump royally mcfucked relations with a lot of US allies. Plus, they're principally opposed to the US embargo.

Cuba also imports from the following countries: Spain (19%), China (15%), Italy (6%), Canada (5%), Russia (5%), United States (5%), Brazil (5%). Is that the US on the list? Yes, it turns out that Cuba imports agricultural products from the US. In 2020 the US exported $176.8 million worth of goods to Cuba and imported $14.9 in return. Additionally, Cuba has been a member of WTO since 1995.

It's worth noting, as you've left out, that Cuba only imported $5.91 billion dollars of goods (in 2009), which - even if you assume that number to be consistent for all 60 plus years of embargo - is absolutely nothing when you factor in that the embargo has cost the country nearly $1 trillion dollars in trade, which is a pure fucking atrocity for an island country of only 11 million people.

So if the impact of the trade embargo isn't so large as some may claim,

Except it is, and that fact is internationally recognized by basically every country in the world (on account of the fact that they've kept telling the United States to fucking stop it for decades now) and most of the population of the United States itself.

are Cuba's own economic policies partly responsible for the current situation? I'm inclined to agree, given that Cuba suffered the harshest economic period when the USSR stopped aid in 1991 (and forced Cuba to fend for itself), not after the US imposed the embargo.

Yeah, it's weird how a small country besieged by an economic superpower suffers when its largest economic partner and the only other superpower at the time suddenly destroys itself.

You can't blame that on Cuba's own policies.

Cuba was still chugging along comfortably throughout the Cold War, despite the difficulties of central plannning, thanks to massive Soviet aid and investment, another strike at the embargo.

It's almost like the USSR and the USA and its allies were enemies, or something, and the embargo was never meant to stop the Soviet Union, but its own allies.

A survey of US economists in 2012 went even further, saying that Cuba's economic policies are more to blame for its woes than the embargo, with a supermajority of economists strongly agree or agree, only a small part had no opinion and none disagreed.

A bunch of US-based Capitalist economists said that Cuba's more to blame for its suffering than one of the greatest acts of economic warfare being conducted against it since the middle of the 20th century? Wow! My opinion has completely changed.

No doubt, the effects of US trade embargo on Cuba's economy are well-documented, but there are certain nuances here. It also exposes nicely how the US' grip on the world economy isn't as strong and almighty, given that many countries are willing to trade despite US disincentives.

Yeah, the nuances are that the whole world has told the USA repeatedly to fuck off and quit strangling Cuba, and the US has continually ignored that.

Sources:
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/cuba/
https://web.archive.org/web/20210423062 ... c2390.html
https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/co ... cuba_e.htm
https://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/cubas-economy/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2 ... _relations
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... e-context/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 954883002/

Y'know, blaming Cuba for the problems incurred by US foreign policy and making your very first source the fucking CIA doesn't make your rant as credible as you think it does.

EDIT: No idea why some of your sources are about whether or not anyone can even trade with Cuba to begin with, because I sure never claimed nobody could trade with Cuba, and I'm fairly sure nobody else did either.

[Picairn]

Food and humanitarian products are authorized, but ships that dock in Cuba are still barred from US ports for half a year, which, for the most part, HEAVILY disincentivizes trading even those goods to Cuba. Not to mention the recent sanctions put in place by Trump have prevented things such as syringes and vaccines from going to the country.

Disincentives aren't full blockades. As stated, Cuba trades with a lot of countries despite all US attempts to sabotage. This implies that the embargo isn't as effective as some might think.

China hosts the vast majority of industry for US corporations, and it's still more or less ideologically aligned with Cuba despite Deng Xiaoping's reforms in the 70s, so it's no surprise it has more leeway here.

Those three countries are united via the EU, which gives them a little bit of leeway in deviating from the US. They've had more in recent years as well, with how much Trump royally mcfucked relations with a lot of US allies. Plus, they're principally opposed to the US embargo.

None of this refutes my point: that the US embargo is less effective than we originally thought. Rather, it bolsters one of my core arguments: that the US' grip on the world economy is not absolute. Cuban trade to other countries still exists and grows.

It's worth noting, as you've left out, that Cuba only imported $5.91 billion dollars of goods (in 2009), which - even if you assume that number to be consistent for all 60 plus years of embargo - is absolutely nothing when you factor in that the embargo has cost the country nearly $1 trillion dollars in trade, which is a pure fucking atrocity for an island country of only 11 million people.

"Vice Foreign Minister Abelardo Moreno said that at current prices a conservative estimate of economic damages to the island up until December 2010 would be more than $104 billion. However, he added, if you take into consideration the extreme devaluation of the dollar against the price of gold on the international financial market during 2010, they would add up to nearly a trillion dollars."
Actual damage in current prices is much lower. Even the UN in 2018 estimated it to be $130 billion only. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba ... SKBN1IA00T

Except it is,

Billions of dollars in trade with Spain, China and other countries doesn't dilute the embargo?

and that fact is internationally recognized by basically every country in the world (on account of the fact that they've kept telling the United States to fucking stop it for decades now) and most of the population of the United States itself.

I'm aware, however this doesn't detract from what I said: the embargo didn't stop other countries from trading with Cuba. Even Venezuela is one of Cuba's top trading partners, despite all the economic crisis and US sanctions there.

Yeah, it's weird how a small country besieged by an economic superpower suffers when its largest economic partner and the only other superpower at the time suddenly destroys itself.

You can't blame that on Cuba's own policies.

If you are conducting a siege and still allow your enemy's allies to trade and support them, I don't want you to be anywhere near military or economic affairs.

The inefficencies of Cuba's central planning system forced it to be dependent on Soviet aid for support, and when that aid vanished they had to carry out some limited market reforms and diversifications to avoid an economic collapse. Even so, it went to Venezuela as its lifesaver, and when Venezuela fell into an economic crisis, Cuba went into a recession as well, before the pandemic. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/opin ... onomy.html

Worth reading further: https://www.jstor.org/stable/656859

It's almost like the USSR and the USA and its allies were enemies, or something,

And so, how did the US embargo affect Cuba during the Cold War? Wasn't it propped up extensively by Soviet aid, which kinda undermines the embargo?

and the embargo was never meant to stop the Soviet Union, but its own allies.

Then that goal rather failed miserably in the Cold War with all the sweet Soviet money, didn't it?

A bunch of US-based Capitalist economists said that Cuba's more to blame for its suffering than one of the greatest acts of economic warfare being conducted against it since the middle of the 20th century? Wow! My opinion has completely changed.

I would trust well-known experts much more than some rando communist on an obscure forum with a preset worldview. They are not even a monolithic bloc, some of them hold progressive views as in the case of Emmanuel Saez who famously worked on income inequality with Piketty, the author of Capital in the 21st century.

Yeah, the nuances are that the whole world has told the USA repeatedly to fuck off and quit strangling Cuba, and the US has continually ignored that.

Irrelevant to what I'm saying. Trade data doesn't lie.

Y'know, blaming Cuba for the problems incurred by US foreign policy and making your very first source the fucking CIA doesn't make your rant as credible as you think it does.

Tankies and communists use CIA all the time when it supports their arguments, for example the (in)famous 1983 report on Soviet nutrition. Why exactly am I held to a different standard? Hypocrisy much?