Breaking News Protests across Cuba against the Cuban Regime

[Nilokeras]

For one thing, Mohammed ibn Salman, the guy who had the dissident journalist chopped up in the Turkish embassy, is actually going to be the person who shifts Saudi Arabia towards modernization, secularization, and human rights in the long-term if he succeeds in his current ongoing reforms.

if you believe all that I have shares in a 200 km long nonsensical city in the middle of the desert to sell you

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

To the Washington Resistance Army and all Persons: Then condemn them and condemn the US government and support western style democracy, with all its faults and merits, on your Posts in this thread for the People of Cuba and Pakistan, don't just imply it, state it?

I mean, I’m not against a western democracy in Cuba, but at this point, there being one anytime soon is pretty unrealistic. Personally, if I were President, I’d try to work with Cuba to get some parts of the embargo lifted in exchange for them lifting some restrictions (America lifts tourism restrictions, Cuba protects tourists and Cuban citizens from wrongful incarceration, etc.) so that eventually Cuba is more liberalized (not quite western democracy but close enough), while at the same time lifting the crippling embargo. Whether or not this is realistic is of course debatable, but this is just what I’d do

Trade. Tourists $, cultural and diplomatic relations with the oppressive, Cuban dictatorship regime of over 61 Years and counting? The same Policy of Democrat President Obama of the USA. The same Policy of Canada, the same policy of the EU and EU nations, the same policy of Australia and New Zealand. The same policy of Democrat Biden and the Democrats. The same policy of all the nations of the world and the oppressive, eternal Cuban dictatorship regime of over 61 Years and counting tells the them in their faces we will not change, we are the continuity of the eternal revolution?

I Rest My Case, I Rest Our Case?

I made a good Popular Poll but no Poll is Perfect. But I am thinking of recording the Poll options and votes on the OP introduction Post and creating a new Poll. I don't have at least 20 Poll options to work with. But there are Poll systems that allow at least 20 Poll options.

Right now I have new material Posts I can Post at any time I wish and I know I can keep this thread going for at least another month from now.

[Myrensis]

I mean, I’m not against a western democracy in Cuba, but at this point, there being one anytime soon is pretty unrealistic. Personally, if I were President, I’d try to work with Cuba to get some parts of the embargo lifted in exchange for them lifting some restrictions (America lifts tourism restrictions, Cuba protects tourists and Cuban citizens from wrongful incarceration, etc.) so that eventually Cuba is more liberalized (not quite western democracy but close enough), while at the same time lifting the crippling embargo. Whether or not this is realistic is of course debatable, but this is just what I’d do

Trade. Tourists $, cultural and diplomatic relations with the oppressive, Cuban dictatorship regime of over 61 Years and counting? The same Policy of Democrat President Obama of the USA. The same Policy of Canada, the same policy of the EU and EU nations, the same policy of Australia and New Zealand. The same policy of Democrat Biden and the Democrats. The same policy of all the nations of the world and the oppressive, eternal Cuban dictatorship regime of over 61 Years and counting tells the them in their faces we will not change, we are the continuity of the eternal revolution?

I Rest My Case, I Rest Our Case?

I made a good Popular Poll but no Poll is Perfect. But I am thinking of recording the Poll options and votes on the OP introduction Post and creating a new Poll. I don't have at least 20 Poll options to work with. But there are Poll systems that allow at least 20 Poll options.

Right now I have new material Posts I can Post at any time I wish and I know I can keep this thread going for at least another month from now.

Nah, sure, lets keep up the embargo, everyone knows that 63 is the magic number of years when an embargo stops achieving nothing and instantly transforms the target nation into a modern liberal capitalist democracy and gives all the angry people who left all their stuff back.

[The Lake-]

To the Washington Resistance Army and all Persons: Then condemn them and condemn the US government and support western style democracy, with all its faults and merits, on your Posts in this thread for the People of Cuba and Pakistan, don't just imply it, state it?

I mean, I’m not against a western democracy in Cuba, but at this point, there being one anytime soon is pretty unrealistic. Personally, if I were President, I’d try to work with Cuba to get some parts of the embargo lifted in exchange for them lifting some restrictions (America lifts tourism restrictions, Cuba protects tourists and Cuban citizens from wrongful incarceration, etc.) so that eventually Cuba is more liberalized (not quite western democracy but close enough), while at the same time lifting the crippling embargo. Whether or not this is realistic is of course debatable, but this is just what I’d do

this worked so well with china

[Torrocca]

Y'know, you'd think the big, moral United States would maybe, just maybe, not put Cuba under the stress and suffering of even more sanctions if it genuinely cared about the Cuban people and wasn't just trying to use unrest that it's the cause of to pull off another color revolution in this century.

[Pasong Tirad]

Y'know, you'd think the big, moral United States would maybe, just maybe, not put Cuba under the stress and suffering of even more sanctions if it genuinely cared about the Cuban people and wasn't just trying to use unrest that it's the cause of to pull off another color revolution in this century.

Can it be? Has the Queen returned?

[Torrocca]

Y'know, you'd think the big, moral United States would maybe, just maybe, not put Cuba under the stress and suffering of even more sanctions if it genuinely cared about the Cuban people and wasn't just trying to use unrest that it's the cause of to pull off another color revolution in this century.

Can it be? Has the Queen returned?

Yes.

[Kowani]

Can it be? Has the Queen returned?

Yes.

welcome back to hell

[Torrocca]

Yes.

welcome back to hell

Thanks! It's where I'm most comfortable.

alsoit'smarginallylesshellishthantwittersoi'lltakeitfornow

[South Reinkalistan]

welcome back to hell

Thanks! It's where I'm most comfortable.

alsoit'smarginallylesshellishthantwittersoi'lltakeitfornow

isnt nsg just a slightly more bearable form of twitter anyway

[Cosmic79]

Thanks! It's where I'm most comfortable.

alsoit'smarginallylesshellishthantwittersoi'lltakeitfornow

isnt nsg just a slightly more bearable form of twitter anyway

Twitter is actually relevant though

[South Reinkalistan]

isnt nsg just a slightly more bearable form of twitter anyway

Twitter is actually relevant though

the opinion of twitteroids has never been relevant, really, the only difference is that at least NSGers are aware of the blatant futility of their opinions

[Cosmic79]

Twitter is actually relevant though

the opinion of twitteroids has never been relevant, really, the only difference is that at least NSGers are aware of the blatant futility of their opinions

Are they?

[South Reinkalistan]

the opinion of twitteroids has never been relevant, really, the only difference is that at least NSGers are aware of the blatant futility of their opinions

Are they?

deep down, yes. twitterites are just deluded; however this is a threadjack so

[Punished UMN]

You admit the demands aren't right or fair, and that they are for pragmatic and cynical reasons, and then say they are moral demands?

"Don't torture political dissidents" is both a fair and just demand on its own. There's no reason we should conclude that it's immoral. It's hypocritical because it's not a demand made of American allies on a consistent basis. The thing is someone can be both a hypocrite and correct at the same time. And states tend to do that a lot based on which issues are salient to the political community.

That's just doublespeak. If it isn't right or far and is for pragmatic and cynical reasons, they by definition aren't moral.

Again, you're confusing the intrinsic nature of the demand with the motivations of the power making the demand. In the case of the United States, the moral error isn't that this demand is made of Cuba but, rather, that it isn't consistently made of, to employ your example, Saudi Arabia. A good many people in political office do want the same demand to be made of Saudi Arabia. It's contributed to the temporary derailing of military aid to Saudi Arabia in the middle of a proxy war with Iran, who also tortures and murders people. So it's not like others haven't noticed this.

Consequentialism is bunk, the intrinsic nature of a demand is entirely determined by its motivation.

[Ifreann]

You admit the demands aren't right or fair, and that they are for pragmatic and cynical reasons, and then say they are moral demands?

"Don't torture political dissidents" is both a fair and just demand on its own. There's no reason we should conclude that it's immoral. It's hypocritical because it's not a demand made of American allies on a consistent basis.

It's also hypocritical because America continues to operate an illegal torture camp in Cuba. In fact, I doubt there is anything the Cuban regime is accused of that the US government is not guilty of doing themselves.

[Torrocca]

"Don't torture political dissidents" is both a fair and just demand on its own. There's no reason we should conclude that it's immoral. It's hypocritical because it's not a demand made of American allies on a consistent basis.

It's also hypocritical because America continues to operate an illegal torture camp in Cuba. In fact, I doubt there is anything the Cuban regime is accused of that the US government is not guilty of doing themselves.

If nothing else, the US is a master of projection and atrocity propaganda.

[Genivaria]

"Don't torture political dissidents" is both a fair and just demand on its own. There's no reason we should conclude that it's immoral. It's hypocritical because it's not a demand made of American allies on a consistent basis. The thing is someone can be both a hypocrite and correct at the same time. And states tend to do that a lot based on which issues are salient to the political community.


Again, you're confusing the intrinsic nature of the demand with the motivations of the power making the demand. In the case of the United States, the moral error isn't that this demand is made of Cuba but, rather, that it isn't consistently made of, to employ your example, Saudi Arabia. A good many people in political office do want the same demand to be made of Saudi Arabia. It's contributed to the temporary derailing of military aid to Saudi Arabia in the middle of a proxy war with Iran, who also tortures and murders people. So it's not like others haven't noticed this.

Consequentialism is bunk, the intrinsic nature of a demand is entirely determined by its motivation.

I take it you've watched The Good Place?

[Fahran]

if you believe all that I have shares in a 200 km long nonsensical city in the middle of the desert to sell you

Silly pet projects like that spring from the same egomaniacal tendencies that have often been a driving force behind modernization and economic diversification in the region. Of course, one could argue that an Islamic republic would be more democratic while still remaining faithful to the political culture in place in Saudi Arabia.

[Fahran]

It's pretty comedic to claim Cuba is a big bad we need to clamp down on when we're pals with Pakistan who are directly responsible for killing more Americans than Cuba could ever dream of via their proxies in Afghanistan.

It's not so much that Cuba is a big bad as Cuba is a formerly hostile nation that has few bargaining chips on the table to keep the big neighboring power from demanding that they treat their own people less poorly. And that a sufficient caucus of those people are living in the big neighboring power. Again, the US isn't demanding that Cuba become a puppet at the moment - at least not outright. Countries tend to do what they can.

[Torrocca]

It's pretty comedic to claim Cuba is a big bad we need to clamp down on when we're pals with Pakistan who are directly responsible for killing more Americans than Cuba could ever dream of via their proxies in Afghanistan.

It's not so much that Cuba is a big bad as Cuba is a formerly hostile nation that has few bargaining chips on the table to keep the big neighboring power from demanding that they treat their own people less poorly. And that a sufficient caucus of those people are living in the big neighboring power. Again, the US isn't demanding that Cuba become a puppet at the moment - at least not outright. Countries tend to do what they can.

The simple problem here is that the accusations that Cuba is even treating its people poorly are based on the fact that Cuba's still to this day, sixty years after it began, strangled by the USA's act of economic warfare and are pretty much exclusively coming from the country that formerly ran Cuba as a country-wide slave plantation via proxy and is currently running a torture camp within its borders, as well as from the subsection of the Cuban diaspora that's made up of the exiled agents and soldiers of Batista's regime and their kids.

[Fahran]

The word “directly” is doing so much lifting in this sentence I fear it’s going to slip a disc

The funding for organizations like al-Qaeda is generally linked to private donors, not the Saudi state, as far as I'm aware. It's not Mohammed ibn Salman taking money from his personal coffers to hand over to Osama bin Laden. It's an Arab business magnate, religious leader, or minor emir playing philanthropist in that way. People like Adel Batterjee or Wa'el Hamza Julaidan. That's a marked difference from Iran who directly funds and trains Islamist militants as a matter of official state policy. Or Cuba who sent troops abroad to wage guerrilla campaigns against other governments as a means of fomenting global revolution.

[Fahran]

Consequentialism is bunk, the intrinsic nature of a demand is entirely determined by its motivation.

That's not a logical approach though. It's technically a non-sequitur.

[Galloism]

Or Cuba who sent troops abroad to wage guerrilla campaigns against other governments as a means of fomenting global revolution.

Wait, what? Is this a thing?

[Torrocca]

Or Cuba who sent troops abroad to wage guerrilla campaigns against other governments as a means of fomenting global revolution.

Wait, what? Is this a thing?

Yeah. They pretty much exclusively fought in countries that were decolonizing themselves and especially against Apartheid-era South Africa.