Should there be a caliphate?

[Disagreer]

Maybe if Egypt got saucy they could swing a North African Caliphate. The only way any Caliphate could be achieved is through massive bloodshed though. The established rulers in each country aren't going to give up power willingly, even if the Prophet himself (peace be upon him) declared that it should be so. A few half-baked scholars aren't going to convince anyone.

[Grenartia]

I personally think there should be 1. because I think a true caliphate is the best form of government possible since the death of the Seal of the Prophets (Peace be Upon Him).

2.Here’s a video on the subject:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMhqbtJ02RI

1. That's not a real reason. There's no substance to it. Its utterly meaningless. Why do you think this would convince anyone who isn't already you?

2. If this video contains the same garbage tier justification as you just tried, no thanks.

[Muzehnaya]

Honestly speaking, this is not the right time to even think about establishing khilafat. This video gives some imaginary ideal which is not even remotely achievable in the present day. And how do you even think we would go about establishing one? That we would all grab guns and start a revolution in some country? That's an absurd idea.

[Darqas]

Absolutely.

[Muzehnaya]

Absolutely.

I would seriously like to know how you even plan on doing that.

[Zhan Dynasty]

If Muslims want one then okay, but the arguments made in the video are pretty poor. The idea that medieval Muslim societies treated minorities well is debateable, let alone meaningless in the discussion of a modern caliphate. I am sure you are well aware of how the last group that proclaimed a caliphate treated minorities.

"Armenian Genocide? What Armenian Genocide?"

I had been thinking of ISIS, but the Ottomans I suppose were the last "universally recognised" Caliphate.

[Middle Barael]

Only if it is limited to Mecca.

^^^This

I think I’d be ok with it if it had similar power to the Vatican, in that it controlled barely any territory and is mostly symbolic with little control over political dealings or the behavior of Muslims around the world. That way they could not force anyone to follow their religious dogmas, but they could still have a de jure “caliphate” and own (but not really rule, since they would barely have any real power) the big holy sites

[Darqas]

Absolutely.

I would seriously like to know how you even plan on doing that.

I don't.

[Muzehnaya]

I would seriously like to know how you even plan on doing that.

I don't.

... What did you mean by "absolutely" then, lol?

[Ideal Britain]

Abrahamic theocracies are kinda cringe.

Theocracy in general is cringe.

Why did God (May he be praised and exalted) establish a theocracy under Moses, David and Solomon (peace be upon them all)?

Both our religions teach that, right?

[Resilient Acceleration]

No.

[Darqas]

I don't.

... What did you mean by "absolutely" then, lol?

"There should be a Caliphate," not "the establishment of a Caliphate is plausible under extant circumstances."

[Roegerland]

No, and if one should pop up it should end up like the last one.

The idea that medieval Muslim societies treated minorities well is debateable.

It's laughable is what it is.

[Punished UMN]

Honestly speaking, this is not the right time to even think about establishing khilafat. This video gives some imaginary ideal which is not even remotely achievable in the present day. And how do you even think we would go about establishing one? That we would all grab guns and start a revolution in some country? That's an absurd idea.

This tbh. I'm not a Muslim, so I'm not especially for having one, but there are some merits it has, the issue is of course that I don't think political Islam or the Islamic world in the middle east has quite recovered from the ideological shock accumulated from the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Sykes-Picot agreement, the Arab-Israeli Wars, the Persian Gulf Wars, and the Arab Spring, and it's unlikely any effort to produce a functional form of political Islam would be either successful or desirable at the moment. When we talk about a Caliphate, OP, we're talking about a large state with hundreds of millions of inhabitants, varying religious sects, different nationalities, and more ideologies than you or I can count. Such a political project would require immense effort and investment, and right now there's so much ideological chaos that the Islamic world has not really recovered from enough to put together a coherent successor to the Caliphates of old.

[Ideal Britain]

Absolutely.

I would seriously like to know how you even plan on doing that.

Well you’d need to get the support of a handful of Muslim countries (say, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Indonesia and Turkey).
Jordan might support it because a Hashemite would probably be chosen as Caliph.
Lebanon, Malaysia, Indonesia and Turkey don’t have unaccountable rulers so if a caliphate was a popular idea a politician could be elected on that platform.

Also between them the nations I’ve mentioned have enough power to put encourage other nations to be in the caliphate with semi-independent states for defence and economic cooperation (like how the USA started)

Each nation that supports the caliphate would be another domino till eventually it covers all Muslim-majority countries
(As well as countries like Bosnia where they would be a majority if it wasn’t for genocide/settlers).

[Ideal Britain]

Honestly speaking, this is not the right time to even think about establishing khilafat. This video gives some imaginary ideal which is not even remotely achievable in the present day. And how do you even think we would go about establishing one? That we would all grab guns and start a revolution in some country? That's an absurd idea.

Well it would start with democracies and a few monarchies.

Eventually if any Muslim-majority nation refused to join they could boycott it’s trade and refuse to send military support.

Combined with an Islamic revival, that makes military service for such a divisive, arrogant government unpopular amongst young men and women and eventually they’d join the caliphate just to be protected by it’s army.

[Fatimida]

By the will of God, there will be again. When, I can't say, but it'll rise again. And it'd be the greatest day of my life if I lived to see it rise.

[The Archregimancy]

Is there any real difference between a Caliphate, a Khanate, and a Sheikhdom?

Very much so.

A Caliph is a ruler that's typically been conceptualised in theory (though rarely in practice since the early Abbasids) as being a pan-Islamic office combining both head of state and head of religion, and held by a worthy successor of the Prophet (PBUH).

A Khan is a ruler with origins in the Central Asian steppes. It's not an Islamic title in origin; not all khans are Muslims, and some of the more prominent khans weren't even monotheists (see Genghis Khan & Kublai Khan).

A sheikh is merely an honorific Arabic title, one often given to members of a ruling family or senior religious leaders, but not necessarily indicating a ruler. A ruler can be a sheikh, but not all sheikhs are rulers.

[Roegerland]

By the will of God, there will be again. When, I can't say, but it'll rise again. And it'd be the greatest day of my life if I lived to see it rise.

Because the last one worked out really well for them didn't it lol

[Fatimida]

By the will of God, there will be again. When, I can't say, but it'll rise again. And it'd be the greatest day of my life if I lived to see it rise.

Because the last one worked out really well for them didn't it lol

What was the "last one"?
The Rashidun, Abbasids?
Or do you mean ISIS? In which case, they aren't Muslims by any measure. They're apostates and they deserved what they got.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Absolutely not.

[Immortan Khan]

Because the last one worked out really well for them didn't it lol

What was the "last one"?
The Rashidun, Abbasids?

The last recognized one were the Ottomans. The last attempt was ISIS.

[The Huskar Social Union]

By the will of God, there will be again. When, I can't say, but it'll rise again. And it'd be the greatest day of my life if I lived to see it rise.

Because the last one worked out really well for them didn't it lol

Is the Ottoman Empire not technically classed as the last Caliphate?

[Immortan Khan]

Because the last one worked out really well for them didn't it lol

Is the Ottoman Empire not technically classed as the last Caliphate?

Still didn't work out in the end.

[Fatimida]

What was the "last one"?
The Rashidun, Abbasids?

The last recognized one were the Ottomans. The last attempt was ISIS.

The Ottomans conquered the entire Islamic world and went even farther than that. It worked out pretty well if you ask me, the only reason it fell being incompetence at the top and the fact it was a monarchy and not a meritocracy.