American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[Salandriagado]

Because it lets you get rid of people who are blatantly failing to do what you elected them to do.



If this is the case, then (a) it should be done by someone who isn't elected (or at least, who isn't able to run for election at any point in the future), because elected officials are unavoidably and permanently incapable of doing so, with or without recall petitions; and (b) it should have consequences, so that people don't do it without good reason.



Just for reference, this is the only anti-democratic thing that's been said in this discussion: it's nothing more or less than a direct denial of the central concept of democracy. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, but you really shouldn't be going around using "anti-democratic" as an insult while also disagreeing with democracy as a concept.

It’s not always possible to get exactly what you want or what you want done. People don’t always agree.

It’s not un Democratic it’s the truth.

The core thesis of democracy is that what is popular is what should be done.

[Ifreann]

Ah, MMP-RCV. Not bad.

I'm a radical in my own right-- unicameralism with MMP-RCV is virtually unheard of in America.

Americans love TLAs, combining two should be very popular.

[Shrillland]

We're all radicals in a way here, not especially representative of our respective countries, which is actually good on a variety of levels tbh.

It is to a point, yeah, until you call your representative XD

I've never done so myself, my district's been safely Red since World War I.

[Meretica]

It is to a point, yeah, until you call your representative XD

I've never done so myself, my district's been safely Red since World War I.

Ours has been red since the 1980 Census. I'm stuck with an idiot by the name of Mark Green, and he has learned that his office out to block my number, but he can't do that because then he'd be in trouble. I interned on the campaign against him in '20, we got 27.3% of the vote, which was up from the last Dem that ran there. My senators are Bill Haggerty and Marsha Blackburn-- they are insolent idiots. I said to a friend the other day that I'm going to have to start calling their offices more often just to drive them crazy. We'd have won if Green had agreed to debate.

[Shrillland]

I've never done so myself, my district's been safely Red since World War I.

Ours has been red since the 1980 Census. I'm stuck with an idiot by the name of Mark Green, and he has learned that his office out to block my number, but he can't do that because then he'd be in trouble. I interned on the campaign against him in '20, we got 27.3% of the vote, which was up from the last Dem that ran there. My senators are Bill Haggerty and Marsha Blackburn-- they are insolent idiots. I said to a friend the other day that I'm going to have to start calling their offices more often just to drive them crazy. We'd have won if Green had agreed to debate.

I'm unluckier still, I've got one of those unofficial hereditary seats. Darin LaHood's my guy, far more extreme than his Dad was when he was in the House.

Anyway, back to the news: Colorado has come out with their 2022 Congressional map, the first redistricted map after the census

[The Temple of the Computer]

Ours has been red since the 1980 Census. I'm stuck with an idiot by the name of Mark Green, and he has learned that his office out to block my number, but he can't do that because then he'd be in trouble. I interned on the campaign against him in '20, we got 27.3% of the vote, which was up from the last Dem that ran there. My senators are Bill Haggerty and Marsha Blackburn-- they are insolent idiots. I said to a friend the other day that I'm going to have to start calling their offices more often just to drive them crazy. We'd have won if Green had agreed to debate.

I'm unluckier still, I've got one of those unofficial hereditary seats. Darin LaHood's my guy, far more extreme than his Dad was when he was in the House.

Anyway, back to the news: Colorado has come out with their 2022 Congressional map, the first redistricted map after the census

I like it, nothing insane like some other congressional maps which is good, so it is good enough.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Ours has been red since the 1980 Census. I'm stuck with an idiot by the name of Mark Green, and he has learned that his office out to block my number, but he can't do that because then he'd be in trouble. I interned on the campaign against him in '20, we got 27.3% of the vote, which was up from the last Dem that ran there. My senators are Bill Haggerty and Marsha Blackburn-- they are insolent idiots. I said to a friend the other day that I'm going to have to start calling their offices more often just to drive them crazy. We'd have won if Green had agreed to debate.

I'm unluckier still, I've got one of those unofficial hereditary seats. Darin LaHood's my guy, far more extreme than his Dad was when he was in the House.

Anyway, back to the news: Colorado has come out with their 2022 Congressional map, the first redistricted map after the census

All look good except the 1st congressional district, and maybe the 8th one, which looks like a dragon.

[Lady Victory]

There already is bloodshed and death. You cannot avoid it, it is happening now. If you do not want to deal with it then you want to allow it to continue, and it will, until one day you find that it has come for you.

This is the extremism to be found on both the left and the right.

People on both sides make it an either/or issue.

THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

THERE

IS

MORAL

AMBIGUITY

E V E R Y W H E R E!

This very debate is morally ambiguous! We can end the bloodshed by using non-violence. Remember Indian Independence! The Mongolian evolution! The Bulldozer, Rose, Orange, and Armenian Velvet Revolutions! Non-violence can be the way of the world so long as enough people embrace it. Radicalization does not need to be the law of the land!

This is dangerously naive. I'm afraid you're very misinformed about the state of American politics right now.

Republicans literally tried to coup the government in January, and when they failed they turned to widespread voter suppression. The GOP has dropped all pretenses. They are the anti-democracy party; a fifth column.

It's not "extreme" to recognize this fact. It's informed. If we get one more Red president, House, and Senate we can kiss America goodbye.

[Myrensis]

Before them, yes, but not now. We have one thing that they didn't have hindering the idea of bipartisanship: Ideological mass media and social media creating separate realities for left and right in this country. In this way only could hostile beliefs like QAnon become a thing to be taken so seriously by so many people. When you've been told for decades not to trust traditional news, not to trust education, not to trust any voices that don't agree with what a small handful of people say is the truth, and when the only way to keep them with you is to ramp up the fear factor periodically until you have millions believing in satanic paedophilic cults ruling America that can only be stopped by mass arrests and executions, then working together becomes all but impossible.

The idea of America is not dead, but it is gravely ill and on life support. It needs massive surgery to be able to live again, and the two parties have neither the desire nor the foresight to accept what has to be done.

The entire GOP does not believe in QAnon, though I will admit many do-- or at least pretend to.

Trump is old. I think it's safe to say that he's on his last legs. I don't wish death on him, but I think he'll be dead soon-- he's not looking too great. I think that with Trump's death, many (though not all) will come to understand that they've been duped. And I think those people will be angrier than a rooster fighting a fox in the hen house. America may be on life support, but we have surgeons on the way. We just need to make sure no one signs the DNR.

Yeah, no, this operates on the supposition that Trump was actually some sort of outlier, as opposed to being the culmination of decades of conservative propaganda promoting an alternate reality where politics is a life and death struggle for the survival of civilization and all non conservatives are fundamentally evil and illegitimate and an existential threat to everything they hold dear.

Trump will probably end up thrown posthumously under the bus with most of his erstwhile supporters insisting that they had never really supported him, but it will only be because they've found a new (ideally more coherent and disciplined) Messiah who is going to save them from the Satanic Cannibal Pedophile Globalist Cabal that has been just one election away from enacting white genocide and the outlawing of Christianity for 40 years now.

See: Ron DeSantis positioning himself as the smarter version of Trump for 2024 and demanding State Universities submit to government mandated ideological purity testing, and attempting to impose a curriculum teaching that all forms of government and society other than Oceania's Americas are inferior and wrong.

[Picairn]

New York Suspends Giuliani’s Law License

A New York appellate court suspended Rudolph W. Giuliani’s law license on Thursday after a disciplinary panel found that he made “demonstrably false and misleading” statements about the 2020 election as Donald J. Trump’s personal attorney.

The court wrote in a 33-page decision that Mr. Giuliani’s conduct threatened “the public interest and warrants interim suspension from the practice of law.”

Mr. Giuliani helped lead Mr. Trump’s legal challenge to the election results, arguing without merit that the vote had been rife with fraud and that voting machines had been rigged.

“We conclude that there is uncontroverted evidence that respondent communicated demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large in his capacity as lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump and the Trump campaign in connection with Trump’s failed effort at reelection in 2020,” the decision read.

A lawyer for Mr. Giuliani could not be immediately reached for comment.

Mr. Giuliani, who was admitted to the state bar in New York in 1969, once had a prominent legal career. He worked in the Justice Department during the Reagan administration, and was named the United States Attorney in Manhattan in 1983.

He was mayor of New York City for eight years, rising to national prominence as he steered the city through the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Say bye bye to your law career, Giuliani!

[Kilobugya]

:lol2: Say bye bye to your law career, Giuliani!

Sacrificing your career to defend a "client" that is known for not paying his contractors was not very wise... but then he was not very active anymore, he's way past retirement age.

[Meretica]

This is the extremism to be found on both the left and the right.

People on both sides make it an either/or issue.

THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

THERE

IS

MORAL

AMBIGUITY

E V E R Y W H E R E!

This very debate is morally ambiguous! We can end the bloodshed by using non-violence. Remember Indian Independence! The Mongolian evolution! The Bulldozer, Rose, Orange, and Armenian Velvet Revolutions! Non-violence can be the way of the world so long as enough people embrace it. Radicalization does not need to be the law of the land!

This is dangerously naive. I'm afraid you're very misinformed about the state of American politics right now.

Republicans tried to coup the government in January, and when they failed they turned to widespread voter suppression. The GOP has dropped all pretenses. They are the anti-democracy party; a fifth column.

It's not "extreme" to recognize this fact. It's informed. If we get one more Red president, House, and Senate we can kiss America goodbye.

I am not uninformed. I am completely aware of the attempted coup by one man and a portion of the population-- not even half of the GOP supports him anymore. Steps are being taken to make polls from within the GOP that aren't favorable towards him disappear. It is naive to believe that a red House, Senate, and Presidency will be the final straw-- there are too many variables in place to say that across the board. It is extreme to say that the entire GOP is anti-democracy. Or did you not watch the second impeachment?

[Meretica]

The entire GOP does not believe in QAnon, though I will admit many do-- or at least pretend to.

Trump is old. I think it's safe to say that he's on his last legs. I don't wish death on him, but I think he'll be dead soon-- he's not looking too great. I think that with Trump's death, many (though not all) will come to understand that they've been duped. And I think those people will be angrier than a rooster fighting a fox in the hen house. America may be on life support, but we have surgeons on the way. We just need to make sure no one signs the DNR.

Yeah, no, this operates on the supposition that Trump was some sort of outlier, as opposed to being the culmination of decades of conservative propaganda promoting an alternate reality where politics is a life and death struggle for the survival of civilization and all non-conservatives are fundamentally evil and illegitimate and an existential threat to everything they hold dear.

Trump will probably end up thrown posthumously under the bus with most of his erstwhile supporters insisting that they had never really supported him, but it will only be because they've found a new (ideally more coherent and disciplined) Messiah who is going to save them from the Satanic Cannibal Pedophile Globalist Cabal that has been just one election away from enacting white genocide and the outlawing of Christianity for 40 years now.

See: Ron DeSantis positioning himself as the smarter version of Trump for 2024 and demanding State Universities submit to government-mandated ideological purity testing, and attempting to impose a curriculum teaching that all forms of government and society other than Oceania's Americas are inferior and wrong.

I think that Trump belongs to one wing of a larger party and that he was, in fact, an outlier as he didn't even gain 50% of the party's approval in 2016. Had the GOP gone through the same process as the Democrats, they would have had a brokered convention. Most of the superdelegates likely would have voted to say goodbye to Trump, and Hillary likely would have won as a result.

Not all Republicans are Trump supporters. Otherwise, you would be throwing Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and others under the bus.

[Necroghastia]

This is dangerously naive. I'm afraid you're very misinformed about the state of American politics right now.

Republicans tried to coup the government in January, and when they failed they turned to widespread voter suppression. The GOP has dropped all pretenses. They are the anti-democracy party; a fifth column.

It's not "extreme" to recognize this fact. It's informed. If we get one more Red president, House, and Senate we can kiss America goodbye.

I am not uninformed. I am completely aware of the attempted coup by one man and a portion of the population-- not even half of the GOP supports him anymore. Steps are being taken to make polls from within the GOP that aren't favorable towards him disappear.

Do you have sources for those statements?

It is naive to believe that a red House, Senate, and Presidency will be the final straw-- there are too many variables in place to say that across the board. It is extreme to say that the entire GOP is anti-democracy. Or did you not watch the second impeachment?

You mean the second impeachment that failed because the vast majority of the GOP declined to punish the man who goaded on a coup attempt?

[Myrensis]

Yeah, no, this operates on the supposition that Trump was some sort of outlier, as opposed to being the culmination of decades of conservative propaganda promoting an alternate reality where politics is a life and death struggle for the survival of civilization and all non-conservatives are fundamentally evil and illegitimate and an existential threat to everything they hold dear.

Trump will probably end up thrown posthumously under the bus with most of his erstwhile supporters insisting that they had never really supported him, but it will only be because they've found a new (ideally more coherent and disciplined) Messiah who is going to save them from the Satanic Cannibal Pedophile Globalist Cabal that has been just one election away from enacting white genocide and the outlawing of Christianity for 40 years now.

See: Ron DeSantis positioning himself as the smarter version of Trump for 2024 and demanding State Universities submit to government-mandated ideological purity testing, and attempting to impose a curriculum teaching that all forms of government and society other than Oceania's Americas are inferior and wrong.

I think that Trump belongs to one wing of a larger party and that he was, in fact, an outlier as he didn't even gain 50% of the party's approval in 2016. Had the GOP gone through the same process as the Democrats, they would have had a brokered convention. Most of the superdelegates likely would have voted to say goodbye to Trump, and Hillary likely would have won as a result.

Not all Republicans are Trump supporters. Otherwise, you would be throwing Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and others under the bus.

Not all, but the majority, and of those that remain most are perfectly willing to tolerate and empower the lunatics for the sake of political gain.

And even Cheney and Romney and Co are still fundamentally party shills and spent their entire careers encouraging the proto-Trumpists, they just have standards and Trump was such a dumpster fire that they had to take a public stand specifically against him. You'll note that none of them broke ranks on the election reform bill, because it would have interfered with their parties nationwide efforts to push through voter suppression and undermine democratic protections that are getting in their way, efforts that are being justified with Trumps constant lies about the 'stolen' election and all the massive voter fraud that they were all ready forced to admit doesn't happen, but it doesn't matter because their base overwhelmingly believes it.

[Meretica]

I am not uninformed. I am completely aware of the attempted coup by one man and a portion of the population-- not even half of the GOP supports him anymore. Steps are being taken to make polls from within the GOP that aren't favorable towards him disappear.

Do you have sources for those statements?

It is naive to believe that a red House, Senate, and Presidency will be the final straw-- there are too many variables in place to say that across the board. It is extreme to say that the entire GOP is anti-democracy. Or did you not watch the second impeachment?

You mean the second impeachment that failed because the vast majority of the GOP declined to punish the man who goaded on a coup attempt?

Sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/12/opinions ... index.html
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-popularity ... 34057.html

Yes, the impeachment failed. But it showed that there were still Republicans willing to stand up for democracy and turn against Trump.

[Meretica]

I think that Trump belongs to one wing of a larger party and that he was, in fact, an outlier as he didn't even gain 50% of the party's approval in 2016. Had the GOP gone through the same process as the Democrats, they would have had a brokered convention. Most of the superdelegates likely would have voted to say goodbye to Trump, and Hillary likely would have won as a result.

Not all Republicans are Trump supporters. Otherwise, you would be throwing Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, and others under the bus.

Not all, but the majority, and of those that remain most are perfectly willing to tolerate and empower the lunatics for the sake of political gain.

And even Cheney and Romney and Co are still fundamentally party shills and spent their entire careers encouraging the proto-Trumpists, they just have standards and Trump was such a dumpster fire that they had to take a public stand specifically against him. You'll note that none of them broke ranks on the election reform bill, because it would have interfered with their parties nationwide efforts to push through voter suppression and undermine democratic protections that are getting in their way.

One must also take into account that Romney & Co's standards have been essential to protecting various laws, such as the Affordable Care Act. Romney and some others opposed the FTPA because of states' rights issues, which I understand to a point. See this article in Deseret News that explains it far better than I could. These are issues that should have been addressed before it was brought to the floor.

[Kowani]

Nancy Pelosi announces that she's launching a select committee to investigate the January 6th attack

[Page]

Nancy Pelosi announces that she's launching a select committee to investigate the January 6th attack

"Order! The January 6 Commission is now in session! Our first order of business is to determine if the Q Shaman was a real buffalo or in fact just a guy in a buffalo hat."

[Immortan Khan]

Secretary Halaand orders a review and investigation into America's residential schools, with a focus on uncovering unmarked and/or mass graves.

[The Black Forrest]

Nancy Pelosi announces that she's launching a select committee to investigate the January 6th attack

"Order! The January 6 Commission is now in session! Our first order of business is to determine if the Q Shaman was a real buffalo or in fact just a guy in a buffalo hat."

Move to strike as it’s obvious he is not a buffalo as the buffalo can’t only eat an organic diet.

[Cannot think of a name]

Nancy Pelosi announces that she's launching a select committee to investigate the January 6th attack

I feel like this is the fourth or fifth time that's been announced.

[Dillemba]

Secretary Halaand orders a review and investigation into America's residential schools, with a focus on uncovering unmarked and/or mass graves.

Can't believe this is even a headline.

[Kowani]

Love how several people here are clamoring for war. Y'all would be dead within weeks if an actual civil war broke out. No joke, the Yugoslav wars were deadly and rife with genocide, now apply that to a country equivalent to continental Europe. Bodies would spread from the Grand Canyon to the Chesapeake Bay. Perhaps cool our heads for a bit and go back to discussing rational solutions? Biden needs to pass that infrastructure bill asap.

It seems like we will get one. A deal appears to have been reached and has 60 votes.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/politics ... index.html

firstly, it doesn't have 60 votes
it has maybe 20

---

anyway
Pelosi on the plan for moving an infrastructure bill:

"We will not take up a bill in the House until the Senate passes the bipartisan bill and a reconciliation bill. If there is no bipartisan bill then we'll just go when the Senate passes a reconciliation bill." "Plain and simple. In fact, I used the word 'ain't.' There ain't gonna be an infrastructure bill until we have a reconciliation bill."

[Dillemba]

https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/ ... 7379621890

Biden says that American citizens need, uh, fighter jets and nuclear weapons to take on the government

"If you wanna...well ya know....the blood of patriots... freedom wasnt won by the blood of Patriots"

Can't believe people voted for this guy.