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American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is it no longer possible to collaborate with political opponents at this stage?

It is no longer possible.
232
36%
It is possible.
166
25%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar economic views.
47
7%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar cultural/social views.
106
16%
Why would I collaborate with anyone? Going monke is the best way forward.
102
16%
 
Total votes : 653

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Tarsonis
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:06 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564083-missouri-lawmakers-hold-hearing-on-teaching-about-racism-without

Missouri lawmakers hold hearing on teaching about racism without testimony from Black parents, teachers or scholars

Of course, they're only interested in what white racists think.


God it's fucking depressing watching a party I used to support circle the drain
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:08 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564083-missouri-lawmakers-hold-hearing-on-teaching-about-racism-without

Missouri lawmakers hold hearing on teaching about racism without testimony from Black parents, teachers or scholars

Of course, they're only interested in what white racists think.


And Republicans wonder why they do so poorly among the black community and refuse to vote for them despite outreach. This is a prime example.

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:10 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course, they're only interested in what white racists think.


And Republicans wonder why they do so poorly among the black community and refuse to vote for them despite outreach. This is a prime example.


Ironically Trump made more gains in the black vote than any other republican
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:11 am

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And Republicans wonder why they do so poorly among the black community and refuse to vote for them despite outreach. This is a prime example.


Ironically Trump made more gains in the black vote than any other republican


True but that could also be an incumbent effect.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:15 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course, they're only interested in what white racists think.


And Republicans wonder why they do so poorly among the black community and refuse to vote for them despite outreach. This is a prime example.

They don't wonder that at all. They know exactly what they are doing.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And Republicans wonder why they do so poorly among the black community and refuse to vote for them despite outreach. This is a prime example.

They don't wonder that at all. They know exactly what they are doing.


How does this help them? It only turns off urban/suburban voters even more.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:50 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:They don't wonder that at all. They know exactly what they are doing.


How does this help them? It only turns off urban/suburban voters even more.

It helps them by winning them the white racist vote, which is just enough for them to get into power when combined with gerrymandering and voter suppression.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:08 am

Alaska Assistant Attorney General Matthias Cicotte outed as Deseret Nationalist, called for people to be burned alive

The Guardian has identified an Alaska assistant attorney general as a supporter of the Mormon-derived extremist group the Deseret nationalists who has posted a series of racist, antisemitic and homophobic messages on social media.

The Guardian’s investigation has triggered a review in the Alaska department of law, where the lawyer works. Matthias Cicotte, whose job means he works as the chief corrections counsel for Alaska’s attorney general, has acted for the department of law in a number of civil rights cases.

But evidence from his Twitter output allowed Cicotte to be identified by anti-fascist researchers, whose evidence was confirmed and augmented by a Guardian investigation.

After the department was presented with the information last week, Alaska’s deputy attorney general, Cori Mills, wrote in a statement shared with the Guardian: “The department of law takes the allegations raised here seriously, and we uphold the dignity and respect of all individuals and ask that all of our employees do the same.” Mills added: “Having just learned about this late last week, we are gathering information and conducting a review. Since this involves personnel issues, we are very limited in our ability to comment further.”

Matthias Cicotte did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

Online, Cicotte, under the moniker J Reuben Clark and the Twitter handle @JReubenCIark, has expressed extreme positions on race, criminal justice and religion.

Since-deleted tweets archived by anti-fascists reveal that he advocated various extreme positions including the summary imprisonment of Black Lives Matter protesters; vigilante violence against leftwing groups; and a punishment of execution for acts including performing gender reassignment surgery.

The JReubenCIark account was also one of the earliest and most prominent accounts to promote Deseret nationalism on Twitter using hashtags like #DeseretNationalism and #DezNat.

Deseret nationalists or DezNats are a loose association of rightwing Mormons. Previously they have been noted for harassing perceived enemies online, such as progressive Mormons, LGBTQ Mormons, former Mormons and political progressives.

Some who identify with the movement wish to recreate Deseret, the region which is now much of the interior of the western United States, which Mormons sought to have admitted to the union, and effectively ruled between 1862 and 1870.

Some DezNats advocate the creation of a theocratic secessionist Mormon state, and some have proposed that this be a white ethnostate, a desire which is reminiscent of the proposals of some white nationalists for a white ethnostate in the Pacific north-west.

Many DezNats flirt with accelerationist neo-Nazi imagery, and pass around memes and catchphrases that are adaptations of imagery and verbiage associated with the “alt-right” movement.

The account is pseudonymous, but it left a trail of evidence regarding Cicotte’s identity which were archived by antifascist activists.

The moniker not only references a prominent 20th-century Mormon leader and attorney, but is the name of Brigham Young University’s law school, from which Cicotte graduated in 2008.

The account revealed a number of biographical details that match Cicotte’s, from the length of his marriage, to the identity of his criminal law professor, to his frequent moves, to the dates of his various stints in higher education, to his ownership of a Minivan, to the date of his house purchase.

There are other clues based on the course of his life or contemporaneous events. In August 2020, the account’s owner remarked that he had been overweight but lost a significant amount of weight, which matches a long chronological sequence of photographs obtained from his wife’s Facebook page.

The most compelling evidence comes from photographs posted by the account, presenting them as depictions of the interior of the owner’s house. One reveals a distinctive patterning on the brickwork, and another a similarly distinctive pattern on wood paneling in a kitchen.

The first matches a fireplace pictured in two photographs of Cicotte’s house posted to the realtor.com website; the second matches several pictures of Cicotte’s kitchen on the same site. The pictures of the kitchen also reveal a matching layout and countertops to the image posted to Twitter.

In a telephone conversation that took place after he had viewed the photographs posted to Twitter, Ellsworth Warner, who lived in the house until 2014 when it was sold to Cicotte, said, “Yep, it is the same house,” and identified the cabinets as having been installed by his mother, Renee Warner.

Another description of the disposition of his house on Twitter also matches satellite images.

Many of the tweets under the JReubenCIark moniker suggest antipathy towards Jews, who are the subject of hundreds of tweets that suggest that they are involved in conspiracies against white people, or that they already control the commanding heights of the economy, the media or education.

In 2016, the account sent a tweet evoking a past time when “real history was taught in school, angry yentas didn’t rule, white men didn’t play the fool”.

The tweet – which suggests the malign influence of Jewish women and the decline of white men as problems in the contemporary world – tagged in two then prominent alt-right accounts at a time when that movement was at the height of its influence on social media.

In February this year, JReubenCIark wrote in reference to the Republican Jewish Committee’s push for the expulsion of Marjorie Taylor Greene that he supported their efforts “to combat the conspiracy theory that Jews run everything by getting any member of Congress they don’t like expelled from Congress”.

The account also regularly denied the reality of anti-Black racism, attacked Black public figures and showed an extraordinary hostility towards anti-racist protesters associated with the Black Lives Matter movement. He also made casually racist remarks about other groups including Mexicans and Native Americans.

In a March tweet, JReubenCIark claimed that accusations of racism were “purely a tool to control people on the right”, going on to ask “try to think of example of an accusation of racism that helped the right, or Christians, or whites in the last 10 years”.

On 15 June last year, he riffed on a catchphrase of the so-called Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, tweeting: “The Civil Rights Act of 1964 and its Consequences Have Been a Disaster for the Human Race.”

The account also repeated familiar white nationalist talking points about the relationships between race, crime and IQ. He tweeted: “Is it ‘white supremacy’ to note that some racial groups have higher IQs than others based on IQ tests? I believe that and I am only a Deseret supremacist.”

JReubenCIark also evinced a dismissive animus towards Latinos. On 25 June last year he wrote: “I can’t believe there’s a faithful Latter-day Saint out there who can look at the collapse of birthrates among the Latter-day Saints and say, ‘Well, hey, at least lots of Catholic Mexicans are coming to the US.’”

On 30 June, as the protests in the wake of George Floyd’s murder were in full swing, the account told a Utah BLM supporter he was arguing with on Twitter: “You and all of your lying violent criminal friends belong in prison.” He later added: “#BlackLivesMatter is a criminal enterprise that murders people and destroys property. In a sane world you would all be in prison or worse.”

On 2 July, discussing an incident in Provo, Utah, in which a man appeared to drive his car into a crowd of BLM protesters, he remarked: “No one had a right to block his car. You all belong in jail.”

The account tweeted about violence against trans people.

On 17 October 2017, responding to news of a Drag Time Story Hour event in Long Beach, California, Cicotte wrote: “This demon should be burned to death and everyone responsible for that library event should be in prison.” On 16 August 2019, he tweeted: “People who encourage a kid to think he’s a different sex than what he is (including parents) go to jail for child abuse”, adding that “people who perform or abet sex change operations on kids get the death penalty.”

The account was more forgiving of accused murderers with rightwing political sympathies.

Discussing the case of Kyle Rittenhouse, accused of a double murder of protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last August, it wrote: “The justice system will fail. He’s not a cop, he’s gonna get screwed like James Fields.”

James Fields was convicted last year of the murder of Heather Heyer, who he killed in a car attack after marching with white supremacists at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017.

The account regularly advocated vigilante action against political opponents.

In June 2017, JReubenCIark concluded a thread on how best to respond to the left’s characterizations of conservatives with the remark: “If brute violence is the only way to be free of them, what do they expect us to do?”
Last edited by Kowani on Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Duvniask
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Postby Duvniask » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:14 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course, they're only interested in what white racists think.


God it's fucking depressing watching a party I used to support circle the drain

This sort of wanton disregard for human decency and the truth is not a new thing. The GOP is not circling the drain so much as it is already in the sewer.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:05 am

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... tion-audit

Texas Republicans propose audit of Democrat-heavy counties
Last edited by San Lumen on Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:47 am

Duvniask wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
God it's fucking depressing watching a party I used to support circle the drain

This sort of wanton disregard for human decency and the truth is not a new thing. The GOP is not circling the drain so much as it is already in the sewer.


It has been somewhat amusing, hearing this refrain from the handful of former Republicans who managed to pull their heads out of the kool-aid bowl, "This isn't the Republican Party I used to be part of!".

Yes, yes it is, this is 100% what the Republican Party has been about for at least the last half century or so, the only difference is that demographic and social changes are making them more desperate and brazen and prone to letting the mask slip.
Last edited by Myrensis on Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Fauzjhia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:53 am

San Lumen wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564074-texas-republican-introduces-bill-seeking-2020-election-audit

Texas Republicans propose audit of Democrat-heavy counties


Election conspiracy again.
I have the impression that republicans believe democrats can only to (voter fraud), so when ever a democrat win, (its voter fraud). Once again, I am not targeting anyone, this is my impression.

Duvniask wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
God it's fucking depressing watching a party I used to support circle the drain

This sort of wanton disregard for human decency and the truth is not a new thing. The GOP is not circling the drain so much as it is already in the sewer.


I don't believe in any sudden change. I don't believe the GOP suddenly transformed into what they are, thanks to Donald Trump. its probably a progressive transformation, with many (conservative networks) adding their own touch, to that (big wall). Also. I am convinced there are other (more conservative then you) people who are waiting for their turn to take the lead, if ever Trump leave the game.
I am very worried that we might see the rise of a 1 party system (conservative) in the near future... (probably lead by (trumpists))
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:07 am

Fauzjhia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564074-texas-republican-introduces-bill-seeking-2020-election-audit

Texas Republicans propose audit of Democrat-heavy counties


Election conspiracy again.
I have the impression that republicans believe democrats can only to (voter fraud), so when ever a democrat win, (its voter fraud). Once again, I am not targeting anyone, this is my impression.


This has been conservative dogma for a long time now yes. As with everything else Trump was was just throwing open the taps on the kool-aid the GOP has been spoon feeding its base for decades, not introducing anything new.

The current all out assault on democracy being carried out by the GOP is partly a result of needing to appease Trump's deranged cultists, and partly panic over the fact that Trump lost, including in previously safe red states, despite performing better than any Republican candidate in history.

And given the choice between jettisoning the lunatics and racists they've cultivated as the bedrock of their base, or going all in on voter suppression and subversion of the democratic process, the GOP has naturally opted for the latter.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:34 am

Myrensis wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:
Election conspiracy again.
I have the impression that republicans believe democrats can only to (voter fraud), so when ever a democrat win, (its voter fraud). Once again, I am not targeting anyone, this is my impression.


This has been conservative dogma for a long time now yes. As with everything else Trump was was just throwing open the taps on the kool-aid the GOP has been spoon feeding its base for decades, not introducing anything new.

The current all out assault on democracy being carried out by the GOP is partly a result of needing to appease Trump's deranged cultists, and partly panic over the fact that Trump lost, including in previously safe red states, despite performing better than any Republican candidate in history.

And given the choice between jettisoning the lunatics and racists they've cultivated as the bedrock of their base, or going all in on voter suppression and subversion of the democratic process, the GOP has naturally opted for the latter.


Embracing the far right and conspiracy theories is only going to get them so far as will voter suppression. I would not put it past them to overturn election results when they lose.

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Zapato
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Postby Zapato » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations and the United States, Gilad Erdan, sent letters to 35 governors whose states have laws against boycotting Israel asking that they consider speaking out against Ben & Jerry’s decision “and taking any other relevant steps, including in relation to your state laws and the commercial dealings between Ben & Jerry’s and your state.”


Wait, isn't boycotting protected speech under the first amendment? :eyebrow:

https://apnews.com/article/ben-jerrys-israel-west-bank-east-jerusalem-879a896549a304ba34223a95a593c391

Also, Republican Senator calling for the state of Oklahoma to... boycott Ben and Jerry?

We should immediately block the sale of all #Benandjerrys in the state and in any state-operated facility to align with our law.
Last edited by Zapato on Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:10 pm

Zapato wrote:
Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations and the United States, Gilad Erdan, sent letters to 35 governors whose states have laws against boycotting Israel asking that they consider speaking out against Ben & Jerry’s decision “and taking any other relevant steps, including in relation to your state laws and the commercial dealings between Ben & Jerry’s and your state.”


Wait, isn't boycotting protected speech under the first amendment? :eyebrow:

https://apnews.com/article/ben-jerrys-israel-west-bank-east-jerusalem-879a896549a304ba34223a95a593c391


But this is different because Israel is special, apparently.
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:43 pm

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... ransgender

A federal judge on Wednesday temporarily blocked the Arkansas law that bans gender-affirming care for transgender youth as part of the state’s legal battle with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

The ACLU requested a preliminary injunction from U.S. District Judge James Moody over the law, which punishes physicians for giving gender confirming treatment to minors and recommending other providers for such care.

Moody, an Obama appointee to the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas, announced his ruling in a bench decision, according to the organization.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:55 pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... er-raid-on

Rochester, New York mayor Lovely Warren and her husband plead not guilty to gun charges after raid on home.

Mayor Warren was defeated in the primary last month by Malik Evans who is almost certain to win the general election in this heavily democratic city.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:59 pm

Zapato wrote:
Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations and the United States, Gilad Erdan, sent letters to 35 governors whose states have laws against boycotting Israel asking that they consider speaking out against Ben & Jerry’s decision “and taking any other relevant steps, including in relation to your state laws and the commercial dealings between Ben & Jerry’s and your state.”


Wait, isn't boycotting protected speech under the first amendment? :eyebrow:

https://apnews.com/article/ben-jerrys-israel-west-bank-east-jerusalem-879a896549a304ba34223a95a593c391

Also, Republican Senator calling for the state of Oklahoma to... boycott Ben and Jerry?

We should immediately block the sale of all #Benandjerrys in the state and in any state-operated facility to align with our law.


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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:00 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Zapato wrote:
Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations and the United States, Gilad Erdan, sent letters to 35 governors whose states have laws against boycotting Israel asking that they consider speaking out against Ben & Jerry’s decision “and taking any other relevant steps, including in relation to your state laws and the commercial dealings between Ben & Jerry’s and your state.”


Wait, isn't boycotting protected speech under the first amendment? :eyebrow:

https://apnews.com/article/ben-jerrys-israel-west-bank-east-jerusalem-879a896549a304ba34223a95a593c391


But this is different because Israel is special, apparently.

So, they way they get away with it is thusly: it's not actually illegal to boycott Israel but the laws make it so that companies can be prevented from doing any business with the state government for doing so, which can harm various contracts with different workplaces. The government can do this because, while boycotts are protected speech, political activity, party membership, or political belief is not covered under most anti-discrimination statutes in the US.
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm

Ben and Jerry's is the latest combatant in the war for the middle east. I knew it, I did die in that bus accident.
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm

In a perfect world we'd be recalling any politician who wasted a moments time trying to force an ice cream company to sell ice cream to a specific country as a completely ridiculous person.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:24 pm

what a ride

mccarthy picked 5 republicans for the jan 6 committee, pelosi said no to jim jordan and jim banks (because they're far right nutcases dedicated to sabotaging the enterprise), mccarthy threw a temper tantrum, pulled all the republicans from the commission (though it seems liz cheney has stayed on), and they're also going to do their own investigation
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:29 pm

Kowani wrote:what a ride

mccarthy picked 5 republicans for the jan 6 committee, pelosi said no to jim jordan and jim banks (because they're far right nutcases dedicated to sabotaging the enterprise), mccarthy threw a temper tantrum, pulled all the republicans from the commission (though it seems liz cheney has stayed on), and they're also going to do their own investigation


Didn’t they also have a list of demands to which she granted?
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* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Cannot think of a name
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Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm

Kowani wrote:what a ride

mccarthy picked 5 republicans for the jan 6 committee, pelosi said no to jim jordan and jim banks (because they're far right nutcases dedicated to sabotaging the enterprise), mccarthy threw a temper tantrum, pulled all the republicans from the commission (though it seems liz cheney has stayed on), and they're also going to do their own investigation

Will their investigation have blackjack and hookers and you know what, forget the investigation?
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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