American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I know that for COVID it was legal for the governor of Maine to close down the borders of the state.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any covid related border closures end up considered by SCOTUS. The constitutionality of restricting American citizens from moving about the country as they please (absent criminal circumstances) seems highly sus to me.

Indeed I would say the way half of US governors were issuing edicts like kings in the early days of the pandemic should have definitely been challenged more.

The big issue too is this is a federal border. I don't think Texas can have its own border policy apart from that of the US Government.

[Page]

Kowani

I saw your post, so in reality they don’t like him due to any policy it like you said boils down to:

1.”Liberals am I right?”
2.“God sent him to be our president.” (Although any Christian who knows better would tell you, Jesus was the only person sent by God to do any type of leading but I don’t want to get too religious here.) Also I live in Alabama and Sen. Tommy Tubberville in one of his first ads he said that.
3.Conspiracy Theories

If anything, there is good scriptural justification for Christians to be anarchists. Not in an active, revolutionary way but in the sense that they should reject the authority of earthly governments as illegitimate.

[Galloism]

Kowani

I saw your post, so in reality they don’t like him due to any policy it like you said boils down to:

1.”Liberals am I right?”
2.“God sent him to be our president.” (Although any Christian who knows better would tell you, Jesus was the only person sent by God to do any type of leading but I don’t want to get too religious here.) Also I live in Alabama and Sen. Tommy Tubberville in one of his first ads he said that.
3.Conspiracy Theories

If anything, there is good scriptural justification for Christians to be anarchists. Not in an active, revolutionary way but in the sense that they should reject the authority of earthly governments as illegitimate.

Um, not at all really.

There's basically two scriptures on the subject - where Jesus refers to paying Caesar's things to Caesar, and God's things to God - which is essentially that you should obey the law, but obey God more.

Then there's the scripture about the superior authorities and that you should obey them.

[Immortan Khan]

Kowani

I saw your post, so in reality they don’t like him due to any policy it like you said boils down to:

1.”Liberals am I right?”
2.“God sent him to be our president.” (Although any Christian who knows better would tell you, Jesus was the only person sent by God to do any type of leading but I don’t want to get too religious here.) Also I live in Alabama and Sen. Tommy Tubberville in one of his first ads he said that.
3.Conspiracy Theories

If anything, there is good scriptural justification for Christians to be anarchists. Not in an active, revolutionary way but in the sense that they should reject the authority of earthly governments as illegitimate.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13: 1-10

[The Jamesian Republic]

If anything, there is good scriptural justification for Christians to be anarchists. Not in an active, revolutionary way but in the sense that they should reject the authority of earthly governments as illegitimate.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13: 1-10

It has been some time since I had read the Bible. Thanks for bringing that up let me edit that post.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

If anything, there is good scriptural justification for Christians to be anarchists. Not in an active, revolutionary way but in the sense that they should reject the authority of earthly governments as illegitimate.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13: 1-10

Strange how God appointed people who actively persecute Christians.

[Muboshi]

I wish we can all just get along.... I hate fighting and it doesn't do anything besides create a bigger issue. However I will argue back if need be to show facts and truth

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I wish we can all just get along.... I hate fighting and it doesn't do anything besides create a bigger issue. However I will argue back if need be to show facts and truth

Despite my cocky personality, I'd actually like it if there was less conflict. It's annoying at best and scary at worst.

[Meretica]

I think that if we can have John Kasich voting and publicly supporting Joe Biden, and if we can have several Republican senators votes to take down the most dangerous president in American history, there is a chance for compromise. However, compromise would be easier and more attainable in a multi-party system rather than the current two-party system. I think that we can put Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski to use-- have them work with Warner and Warren to develop good compromises that will help people. As an independent liberal Christian, I believe that it is the duty of the government to find common ground that most of us can agree to support, even if we don't get everything we want.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I think that if we can have John Kasich voting and publicly supporting Joe Biden, and if we can have several Republican senators votes to take down the most dangerous president in American history, there is a chance for compromise. However, compromise would be easier and more attainable in a multi-party system rather than the current two-party system. I think that we can put Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski to use-- have them work with Warner and Warren to develop good compromises that will help people. As an independent liberal Christian, I believe that it is the duty of the government to find common ground that most of us can agree to support, even if we don't get everything we want.

Only if we get everything we need.

[Immortan Khan]

Romans 13: 1-10

Strange how God appointed people who actively persecute Christians.

This is why you don't practice sola scriptura. While people have abused this part of Romans to justify every abuse under the sun imaginable, many theologians have argued (such as Aquinas) that it is still contract based and that Christians can resist if the authorities are that unjust and despotic. However the argument is more about how governance, authorities, etc are something God has intended to help mankind.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Strange how God appointed people who actively persecute Christians.

This is why you don't practice sola scriptura. While people have abused this part of Romans to justify every abuse under the sun imaginable, many theologians have argued (such as Aquinas) that it is still contract based and that Christians can resist if the authorities are that unjust and despotic. However the argument is more about how governance, authorities, etc are something God has intended to help mankind.

I mean yeah that makes sense. You gotta have a governing authority of some kind in an area.

[Meretica]

I think that if we can have John Kasich voting and publicly supporting Joe Biden, and if we can have several Republican senators votes to take down the most dangerous president in American history, there is a chance for compromise. However, compromise would be easier and more attainable in a multi-party system rather than the current two-party system. I think that we can put Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski to use-- have them work with Warner and Warren to develop good compromises that will help people. As an independent liberal Christian, I believe that the government must find common ground that most of us can agree to support, even if we don't get everything we want.

Only if we get everything we need.

That depends on what you mean by "need," really. The basics must be given to all people-- food, water, shelter, basic education-- that is a need. Things like free college, high taxes on the 2%, and Medicare for All are wants. Don't get me wrong-- those are things that I support. But, they are wants.

[Kilobugya]

Strange how God appointed people who actively persecute Christians.

Well, that points to two critical issues about the Bible or any scripture-based religion.

The first is that even if we admit the core premise that there is a God and Jesus was the Son of God and... even then, at best, the Bible was written by a mortal man (Paul for that part), decades after Jesus. So taking a face value this text not only means accepting that Jesus was giving God's message, but also that Paul did fully understand it, that in 20 years he didn't forget or "taint" his understanding, that when he wrote it he wasn't having any secondary objective or wasn't pressured or threatened, that the successive translations didn't alter too much the message, ... that's quite a stretch. It's not "the Bible is the word of God" but "the Bible is what a mortal man claims 20 years later he remembers from what was told to him". We know that witness in criminal trials are often not very accurate, especially 20 years after the "crime".

The second is that it doesn't tell much about that message being context-specific or not. If a parent says to a kid "don't eat the candy !" it can be that the parent doesn't want the child ever eating a candy, or the child already had too many today, or that this specific candy is for someone else or rotten, or that the kid shouldn't eat a candy at this time of the day, or that the child misbehaved and "no candy" is the punishment, or ... the same goes with every kind of interdict given by a God to humans (admitting there is one, which I don't) : how much is it specific to the time and place (political system, state of knowledge, technology available, climate of the place, ...) and how much is it valid in general ? Without the core justification (which is rarely given) it's hard to know, and trying to blindly apply a text 2000 years afterwards is just silly.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just watched a video where some old Cuban man said "If you knew what communism was all about, you wouldn't want it in the US," in reference to Biden.

Lol if he knew what communism was about, he'd understand Biden isn't even a democratic socialist but he's drank too much Kool Aid and his brain is off.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Only if we get everything we need.

That depends on what you mean by "need," really. The basics must be given to all people-- food, water, shelter, basic education-- that is a need. Things like free college, high taxes on the 2%, and Medicare for All are wants. Don't get me wrong-- those are things that I support. But, they are wants.

I want a moped. I can compromise and give that up but I need to survive.

[Lady Victory]

Just watched a video where some old Cuban man said "If you knew what communism was all about, you wouldn't want it in the US," in reference to Biden.

Lol if he knew what communism was about, he'd understand Biden isn't even a democratic socialist but he's drank too much Kool Aid and his brain is off.

It's really sad how many Cuban-Americans have such an irrational hatred for Communism they view everything Left of Reagan as Marxism.

McCarthyism is a helluva drug.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just watched a video where some old Cuban man said "If you knew what communism was all about, you wouldn't want it in the US," in reference to Biden.

Lol if he knew what communism was about, he'd understand Biden isn't even a democratic socialist but he's drank too much Kool Aid and his brain is off.

It's really sad how many Cuban-Americans have such an irrational hatred for Communism they view everything Left of Reagan as Marxism.

McCarthyism is a helluva drug.

They voted for a guy who hung out with Epstein to stop imaginary communism.

[Necroghastia]

It's really sad how many Cuban-Americans have such an irrational hatred for Communism they view everything Left of Reagan as Marxism.

McCarthyism is a helluva drug.

They voted for a guy who hung out with Epstein to stop imaginary communism.

And for the guy that hung out with Epstein to take down a secret pedophile cult.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

They voted for a guy who hung out with Epstein to stop imaginary communism.

And for the guy that hung out with Epstein to take down a secret pedophile cult.

Hmm, I wonder why I'm not trying to compromise with the Trump fans.

[Lady Victory]

And for the guy that hung out with Epstein to take down a secret pedophile cult.

Hmm, I wonder why I'm not trying to compromise with the Trump fans.

Imagine if someone in 1936 told the Jews they just needed to compromise with the Nazis and find common ground lmao.

[Atheris]

I know that for COVID it was legal for the governor of Maine to close down the borders of the state.

I'm not seeing anything about the Maine governor closing the borders with other states. I've seen some articles about there were checkpoints to check vehicles for drugs and how the US-Canadian border in Maine was closed. I see one article where it says "people coming to Maine via Massachusetts must quarantine for 14 days or show proof of negative infection of COVID-19."

I'm not saying it didn't happen but I'm just not seeing articles about it.

I don't know if it happened or not, just that it was legal.

[Ifreann]

Just watched a video where some old Cuban man said "If you knew what communism was all about, you wouldn't want it in the US," in reference to Biden.

Lol if he knew what communism was about, he'd understand Biden isn't even a democratic socialist but he's drank too much Kool Aid and his brain is off.

It's really sad how many Cuban-Americans have such an irrational hatred for Communism they view everything Left of Reagan as Marxism.

McCarthyism is a helluva drug.

"The communists took everything from my family. Our farms, our slaves, even our mansions."

[Lady Victory]

It's really sad how many Cuban-Americans have such an irrational hatred for Communism they view everything Left of Reagan as Marxism.

McCarthyism is a helluva drug.

"The communists took everything from my family. Our farms, our slaves, even our mansions."

Slaves should have been the last thing. Punchline works better that way.

[Kilobugya]

"The communists took everything from my family. Our farms, our slaves, even our mansions."

Well, actually, that's pretty much the story of Bacardi. The Bacardi family made their fortune on slave labor, so the Cuban revolution (rightfully) considering it was ill-gained fortune expropriated them, so they moved to Miami, supported the blockade and sponsored terrorism against Cuban civilians.