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American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is it no longer possible to collaborate with political opponents at this stage?

It is no longer possible.
143
38%
It is possible.
92
24%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar economic views.
25
7%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar cultural/social views.
58
15%
Why would I collaborate with anyone? Going monke is the best way forward.
58
15%
 
Total votes : 376

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:53 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:

Okay, so I was just scrolling through (also first time poster in these types of threads.) How exactly did you de - Trumpify Trump supporters?


Step 1. Get them to consider other points of views.

Step 2. They're closed minded.
Step 3. They're closed minded.

Most of them are. It's the few I snag that make me continue this nearly futile exercise in persuasion.

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Illu-chi
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Illu-chi » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:00 pm

Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:
Illu-chi wrote:I'm surprised people think climate change is actually a huge deal. I was taught in school that global warming isn't a thing, but climate change is. A meteorologist who one time came to my school( to talk about the profession of meteorology or something like that) also said that climate change will just be some changes in weather patterns and its not some apocalypse.

Ignoring the myriad of other effects in the future, we are already at a point where most of the minor Pacific island states are going underwater. That's 2.3 million people that will have to move away from their ancestral homelands in the coming decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-change

The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac

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Page
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Postby Page » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:02 pm

Illu-chi wrote:I'm surprised people think climate change is actually a huge deal. I was taught in school that global warming isn't a thing, but climate change is. A meteorologist who one time came to my school( to talk about the profession of meteorology or something like that) also said that climate change will just be some changes in weather patterns and its not some apocalypse.


Climate change isn't going to bring about human extinction (at least not the kind we're dealing with now, can make no promises about Snowpiercer-making human technologies of the future), but extinction is hardly the threshold for something being a huge deal. Coronavirus has killed 0.05% of the human population and global population growth is offsetting those losses by a huge margin. The global population grew every year of World War 2 despite tens of millions of deaths. Our species is persistent. The planet is persistent too, it survived asteroid impacts that lit every continent on fire and blocked out the sun for decades.

We're not talking about extinction of life on Earth, we're talking about things getting really shitty for a lot of people. More frequent and powerful hurricanes and typhoons, coastal cities being consumed by rising oceans, mass migration from unlivable places, and scarcity of resources, the latter two of which will cause wars, and if those wars involve nuclear powers, then it gets much, much worse.

How bad it is depends on your perspective. If you were some kind of Gaia life force of Earth, then climate change is basically a sneeze, but if you're one of the millions of climate refugees, it's a huge deal. And if you're living a comfortable life in the west, you might not feel the effects of nature, but you will feel the economic and political ramifications. Think. Just a few million refugees fleeing war zones to Europe has triggered a fascistic backlash all over the continent. What happens when 100 million people leaving uninhabitable Gulf States have to find a new home? Consequences are complicated but they are inevitable.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:03 pm

Illu-chi wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:Ignoring the myriad of other effects in the future, we are already at a point where most of the minor Pacific island states are going underwater. That's 2.3 million people that will have to move away from their ancestral homelands in the coming decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-change

The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac

Guardian is wrong on a lot of stuff. It's also correct on a lot of other stuff. I think you have to look from author to author.

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Page
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Postby Page » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:04 pm

Illu-chi wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:Ignoring the myriad of other effects in the future, we are already at a point where most of the minor Pacific island states are going underwater. That's 2.3 million people that will have to move away from their ancestral homelands in the coming decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-change

The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac


Russian Spetsnaz has fought against murderous Islamist extremists but if you read an article about them being less than angels, would you be so quick to dismiss it?
I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:05 pm

Page wrote:Just a few million refugees fleeing war zones to Europe has triggered a fascistic backlash all over the continent. What happens when 100 million people leaving uninhabitable Gulf States have to find a new home? Consequences are complicated but they are inevitable.

So, I fear that people will start shooting (and meaningfully so for real and in an institutional fashion) if that happens.

It's not unprecedented that mass migrations have been met with extreme violence by the residents of the place being migrated to. We haven't changed (as a species) as much as we'd like to think.
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The Jamesian Republic
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Postby The Jamesian Republic » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:06 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:

Okay, so I was just scrolling through (also first time poster in these types of threads.) How exactly did you de - Trumpify Trump supporters?

Typically by having casual chats, getting to know them and their circumstances. Ultimately you have to hammer down three things:
  • Trumpian class warfare
  • Trumpian hypocrisy
  • Trumpian status quo obfuscation
Because at the end of the day, most Trump supporters are not rich, or financially stable. They're in the big prole boat, like the rest of us. Where they differ is on cultural and social issues. As someone who once was, to put it mildly, far-right on such issues, I find myself desensitized to some of the more acerbic talking points Trump supporters tend to parrot. I am able to tolerate it because I wish to show them directly that Trump conned them. From there, I can use some common-ground talking points (most Trump supporters tend to be pro-gun. I'm a pro-gun leftist) to further position myself as someone who can help them towards an alternative socioeconomic worldview.

Also, welcome to NSG!


Interesting. Here is my story, Unpopular opinion but I did vote for Trump in 2016. I will be honest with you I wasn’t too keen on it, but I wasn’t too keen on Clinton either, don’t know why. I flipped a coin, heads for Trump tails for Clinton, It landed on heads so I just went with that. So the election came and went… you know the rest. At this point I decided that I would give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to see where he would go. I saw what happened but I still was on the fence. Then the Helsinki Summit happened in 2018. When he said he believed Vladimir Putin over our government that was when I decided “Nope. I have lost what little faith I have in you.” From then I voted blue. I voted for Biden in 2020. Here’s the difference with this decision. When I was watching the 2020 DNC convention I had this feeling of “I should vote for him. I want him to win.” I don’t know to call it my gut speaking or for the more religious out there the Holy Spirit talking to me. Then the election came. For those few days I felt very anxious. Then Biden won and I felt better, however seeing how Trump and his followers acted, I feel thankful for not feeding in and following my instinct. When January 6th happen which I will say I felt like something really bad would happen, but when Biden spoke about it I felt my worries leaving me. Sorry for the long story but I wanted to put this out there.
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:13 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Typically by having casual chats, getting to know them and their circumstances. Ultimately you have to hammer down three things:
  • Trumpian class warfare
  • Trumpian hypocrisy
  • Trumpian status quo obfuscation
Because at the end of the day, most Trump supporters are not rich, or financially stable. They're in the big prole boat, like the rest of us. Where they differ is on cultural and social issues. As someone who once was, to put it mildly, far-right on such issues, I find myself desensitized to some of the more acerbic talking points Trump supporters tend to parrot. I am able to tolerate it because I wish to show them directly that Trump conned them. From there, I can use some common-ground talking points (most Trump supporters tend to be pro-gun. I'm a pro-gun leftist) to further position myself as someone who can help them towards an alternative socioeconomic worldview.

Also, welcome to NSG!


Interesting. Here is my story, Unpopular opinion but I did vote for Trump in 2016. I will be honest with you I wasn’t too keen on it, but I wasn’t too keen on Clinton either, don’t know why. I flipped a coin, heads for Trump tails for Clinton, It landed on heads so I just went with that. So the election came and went… you know the rest. At this point I decided that I would give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to see where he would go. I saw what happened but I still was on the fence. Then the Helsinki Summit happened in 2018. When he said he believed Vladimir Putin over our government that was when I decided “Nope. I have lost what little faith I have in you.” From then I voted blue. I voted for Biden in 2020. Here’s the difference with this decision. When I was watching the 2020 DNC convention I had this feeling of “I should vote for him. I want him to win.” I don’t know to call it my gut speaking or for the more religious out there the Holy Spirit talking to me. Then the election came. For those few days I felt very anxious. Then Biden won and I felt better, however seeing how Trump and his followers acted, I feel thankful for not feeding in and following my instinct. When January 6th happen which I will say I felt like something really bad would happen, but when Biden spoke about it I felt my worries leaving me. Sorry for the long story but I wanted to put this out there.

I also leaned towards Trump in 2016 because I felt he'd be a real populist. Oh, how wrong I was. As for your support for Biden? Look, it's cool you're no longer in the Trump camp, but Biden's not exactly a good individual either. He's a blatant establishment crook. Gives me major Clinton vibes. His foreign policy, his takes on the justice system, his anti-gun rhetoric, and his coziness with the corporate elite in the United States are all reasons I find myself revulsed by him. While he may give off an impression of sincerity and frankness, just know that most of it is fake.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:14 pm

Illu-chi wrote:I'm surprised people think climate change is actually a huge deal. I was taught in school that global warming isn't a thing, but climate change is. A meteorologist who one time came to my school( to talk about the profession of meteorology or something like that) also said that climate change will just be some changes in weather patterns and its not some apocalypse.


The majority of animal life on the planet has died in the past 50 years.
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Illu-chi
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Postby Illu-chi » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Page wrote:
Illu-chi wrote:The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac


Russian Spetsnaz has fought against murderous Islamist extremists but if you read an article about them being less than angels, would you be so quick to dismiss it?

Probably not as quickly, though I would definitely check to see who made the article first.

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:20 pm

Illu-chi wrote:
Page wrote:
Russian Spetsnaz has fought against murderous Islamist extremists but if you read an article about them being less than angels, would you be so quick to dismiss it?

Probably not as quickly, though I would definitely check to see who made the article first.

Well, at least you're principled, to an extent.

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Illu-chi
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Illu-chi » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:30 pm

Page wrote:
Illu-chi wrote:I'm surprised people think climate change is actually a huge deal. I was taught in school that global warming isn't a thing, but climate change is. A meteorologist who one time came to my school( to talk about the profession of meteorology or something like that) also said that climate change will just be some changes in weather patterns and its not some apocalypse.


Climate change isn't going to bring about human extinction (at least not the kind we're dealing with now, can make no promises about Snowpiercer-making human technologies of the future), but extinction is hardly the threshold for something being a huge deal. Coronavirus has killed 0.05% of the human population and global population growth is offsetting those losses by a huge margin. The global population grew every year of World War 2 despite tens of millions of deaths. Our species is persistent. The planet is persistent too, it survived asteroid impacts that lit every continent on fire and blocked out the sun for decades.

We're not talking about extinction of life on Earth, we're talking about things getting really shitty for a lot of people. More frequent and powerful hurricanes and typhoons, coastal cities being consumed by rising oceans, mass migration from unlivable places, and scarcity of resources, the latter two of which will cause wars, and if those wars involve nuclear powers, then it gets much, much worse.

How bad it is depends on your perspective. If you were some kind of Gaia life force of Earth, then climate change is basically a sneeze, but if you're one of the millions of climate refugees, it's a huge deal. And if you're living a comfortable life in the west, you might not feel the effects of nature, but you will feel the economic and political ramifications. Think. Just a few million refugees fleeing war zones to Europe has triggered a fascistic backlash all over the continent. What happens when 100 million people leaving uninhabitable Gulf States have to find a new home? Consequences are complicated but they are inevitable.

Oh OK.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:42 pm

Page wrote:
Illu-chi wrote:I'm surprised people think climate change is actually a huge deal. I was taught in school that global warming isn't a thing, but climate change is. A meteorologist who one time came to my school( to talk about the profession of meteorology or something like that) also said that climate change will just be some changes in weather patterns and its not some apocalypse.


Climate change isn't going to bring about human extinction (at least not the kind we're dealing with now, can make no promises about Snowpiercer-making human technologies of the future), but extinction is hardly the threshold for something being a huge deal. Coronavirus has killed 0.05% of the human population and global population growth is offsetting those losses by a huge margin. The global population grew every year of World War 2 despite tens of millions of deaths. Our species is persistent. The planet is persistent too, it survived asteroid impacts that lit every continent on fire and blocked out the sun for decades.

We're not talking about extinction of life on Earth, we're talking about things getting really shitty for a lot of people. More frequent and powerful hurricanes and typhoons, coastal cities being consumed by rising oceans, mass migration from unlivable places, and scarcity of resources, the latter two of which will cause wars, and if those wars involve nuclear powers, then it gets much, much worse.

How bad it is depends on your perspective. If you were some kind of Gaia life force of Earth, then climate change is basically a sneeze, but if you're one of the millions of climate refugees, it's a huge deal. And if you're living a comfortable life in the west, you might not feel the effects of nature, but you will feel the economic and political ramifications. Think. Just a few million refugees fleeing war zones to Europe has triggered a fascistic backlash all over the continent. What happens when 100 million people leaving uninhabitable Gulf States have to find a new home? Consequences are complicated but they are inevitable.


The end of the world in a literal sense it is not. The end of the world we currently live in it is.
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Comerciante
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Postby Comerciante » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:07 pm

Ah, that new thread smell!

Great to be here! Also, Kowani may now be played so long as he is summoned before the thread makes it to the 10th page.

By summoning him this way, he gets +2 Attack and +1 Defense, but unfortunately, his "Play" effect is nerfed because he wasn't normally summoned.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:08 pm

https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news ... 259998.php

The city of Beaumont, Texas held its Mayoral runoff yesterday. Three-term former Ward IV Councilwoman Robin Mouton will be Beaumont’s next mayor and the only woman on the Beaumont City Council. She was elected with nearly 52% of the votes in a gain for Democrats.

The city is located on the coast near the Louisiana border.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Jamesian Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:15 pm

I also leaned towards Trump in 2016 because I felt he'd be a real populist. Oh, how wrong I was. As for your support for Biden? Look, it's cool you're no longer in the Trump camp, but Biden's not exactly a good individual either. He's a blatant establishment crook. Gives me major Clinton vibes. His foreign policy, his takes on the justice system, his anti-gun rhetoric, and his coziness with the corporate elite in the United States are all reasons I find myself revulsed by him. While he may give off an impression of sincerity and frankness, just know that most of it is fake.



I can also see it being fake as well. I know about his dealings in other countries and his time in the senate. I also think that it also comes down to the lesser of two evils. In reality all politicians are like that. I think when it comes to things like this, you got people who make it very obvious of their misdeeds or corruption and you got some who manage to brush it off or overall are more slick about it.
The Jamesian Republic is an allegory for the United States of America. It has 48 states like the USA did from 1912-1959 and the Stars and Stripes mean the same thing like they do in Real Life.
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Postauthoritarian America
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Postby Postauthoritarian America » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:23 pm

Another example if one were needed of why collaboration with Big Lie advocates and insurrectionists is no longer possible.

US: OK Ukraine, here's $275 million in aid. Russia, if you don't back down we'll give them another $100 million.

Russia: OK, we back down.

US: OK, we'll hold up the extra $100 million.

Republicans: BIDEN HELD UP AID TO UKRAINE! BAD BIDEN!
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Illu-chi wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:Ignoring the myriad of other effects in the future, we are already at a point where most of the minor Pacific island states are going underwater. That's 2.3 million people that will have to move away from their ancestral homelands in the coming decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-change

The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac

I haven't read the article (yet), but on the face of it, your description of Bortac sounds plausible to me. Having been deployed in Afghanistan is no guarantee that you're suitable for crowd control in Portland - rather, it suggests the opposite. So why is the article, in your opinion, a poor news article? What's wrong or untruthful?
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:33 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Illu-chi wrote:The guardian is the same news site that tried to make the same people who fought against cartels and have operated in Afghanistan sound like crazy murderous lunatics with no morals. Not the best news source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... and-bortac

I haven't read the article (yet), but on the face of it, your description of Bortac sounds plausible to me. Having been deployed in Afghanistan is no guarantee that you're suitable for crowd control in Portland - rather, it suggests the opposite. So why is the article, in your opinion, a poor news article? What's wrong or untruthful?

Could they really fuck it up more than the Portland PD though? Let’s be realistic here.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:35 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
I also leaned towards Trump in 2016 because I felt he'd be a real populist. Oh, how wrong I was. As for your support for Biden? Look, it's cool you're no longer in the Trump camp, but Biden's not exactly a good individual either. He's a blatant establishment crook. Gives me major Clinton vibes. His foreign policy, his takes on the justice system, his anti-gun rhetoric, and his coziness with the corporate elite in the United States are all reasons I find myself revulsed by him. While he may give off an impression of sincerity and frankness, just know that most of it is fake.



I can also see it being fake as well. I know about his dealings in other countries and his time in the senate. I also think that it also comes down to the lesser of two evils. In reality all politicians are like that. I think when it comes to things like this, you got people who make it very obvious of their misdeeds or corruption and you got some who manage to brush it off or overall are more slick about it.


Trump is unable to not show is dark side. He's the kind of guy to meet a kid with cancer and ask him if he's sad about all the things he won't get to do cause he's gonna die from Leukemia.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:48 pm

Galloism wrote:
Gravlen wrote:I haven't read the article (yet), but on the face of it, your description of Bortac sounds plausible to me. Having been deployed in Afghanistan is no guarantee that you're suitable for crowd control in Portland - rather, it suggests the opposite. So why is the article, in your opinion, a poor news article? What's wrong or untruthful?

Could they really fuck it up more than the Portland PD though? Let’s be realistic here.

The introductory paragraph worries me and makes me think the answer might be yes.

Another leading CBP figure remarked that border agents were not required to adhere to the same constitutional restraints on the use of force as other law enforcers. “We are not cops,” he said.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:54 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Aggicificicerous wrote:
I'm starting to suspect he's got Biden's blessing. Very convenient to always have someone 'sabotaging' the government so it never has to do anything.


I wouldn't be surprised. That tends to be how our government operates.

There's always another option though.

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I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66191
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:55 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You literally don't wanna fight global warming because gas fumes can get you high? What?


Tbf I love the smell of gas stations, he isn't alone lol

I prefer Diesel gas smell to regular gas.
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7800
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:57 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tbf I love the smell of gas stations, he isn't alone lol

I prefer Diesel gas smell to regular gas.

I prefer the mountain air gas smell to both :P

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70000
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:58 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Could they really fuck it up more than the Portland PD though? Let’s be realistic here.

The introductory paragraph worries me and makes me think the answer might be yes.

Another leading CBP figure remarked that border agents were not required to adhere to the same constitutional restraints on the use of force as other law enforcers. “We are not cops,” he said.

I was making a joke, and you had to get all serious on me.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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