American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[Merrill]

The N-95 was singled out early on because the supply was low at the time and they were urging people to save the N-95 for hospital staff and first responders. Yes, there was like a month where Fauci and others were telling people not to mask up because healthcare workers needed them and the supply chain hadn't caught up yet. But for anyone who's looked at the news since May of last year, the supply chain has caught up and they quickly changed their stance now that they were readily accessible to everyone.

Hell there where a stack of 50 boxes of 10 N-95 masks each at Lowe’s the other day. Thats 500 masks just sitting in a store

Those aren't N-95 masks. Their just normal paper masks. Just because it looks like a medical grade mask doesn't mean that it is.

[Senkaku]

the lesson is that wanting him to have any kind of relevant skill or experience (more than a birth certificate, an address, and a pulse) is not "classism"

Experience is how you get career politicians.

are you trying to say Madison Cawthorn isn't a career politician LMAOOO

I feel the same way about Fox, but if they published something with literally dozens of people from AOC's alma mater on the record saying she was a sexual predator, my instinct would not be to assume that it's pure fabrication just because I don't like them

no you wouldn't

everyone, come marvel at this incisive conservative critique

is this supposed to be a defense of her godlike skills as a political operator and messager, or a defense of the substantive validity of comparing masking against COVID to the pre-Holocaust persecution, or both? because I don't think it's really doing either

If out of the three supposed beliefs, only one of them can be verified to be half-true, then I think there's an issue.

the only issue, as I think Duvniask literally just showed, is with your mysterious inability to "verify" things you don't want to think about even when they're spoonfed to you

[Antipatros]

Hell there where a stack of 50 boxes of 10 N-95 masks each at Lowe’s the other day. Thats 500 masks just sitting in a store

Those aren't N-95 masks. Their just normal paper masks. Just because it looks like a medical grade mask doesn't mean that it is.

Here's the list of NIOSH approved N95 masks: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/N95list1.html

Here's Lowe's respiratory protection product list: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Respiratory-protection-Safety/721068286897

You can cross-compare these two lists to figure out what's what.

[Duvniask]

Well, this one is more about Parkland, but it is something she actually thinks.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did ... ry-1564992

And we circle back to Media Matters, alongside a screenshot taken by someone from Huffington Post. CNN's investigation found that she was hostile to the TLAs, which comes off as being more based than anything.

Ah yes, screenshots - they truly have nothing on her!

Did she ever renounce what she is alleged to have said?

[North Washington Republic]

Those aren't N-95 masks. Their just normal paper masks. Just because it looks like a medical grade mask doesn't mean that it is.

Here's the list of NIOSH approved N95 masks: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/N95list1.html

Here's Lowe's respiratory protection product list: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Respiratory-protection-Safety/721068286897

You can cross-compare these two lists to figure out what's what.

I’ve been wearing KN95 masks in order to save N95s for medical workers.

[Merrill]

Facts don't change. That's the definition of a fact. If politicians are going to make policy based on "The Science", they have a responsibility to actually understand it, and communicate it accurately. When the poster boy for politized science lies to the Senate, why should American citizens obey him?

Our understanding of the facts does change over time, though. How else is science supposed to work?

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

[Merrill]

Profit has nothing to do with it. Food is thrown away because government regulations forbid it from being given to soup kitchens, etc. In a prior career, I managed fast food restaurants. We tried VERY hard not to have unsold food, because it HAD to be trashed.

Isn't it more of a concern over liability? From what I understand, Congress has specifically passed a law in an attempt to address this (the Good Samaritan Act).

That doesn't mean that local politys acually changed their rules and enforcements.

[Duvniask]

Our understanding of the facts does change over time, though. How else is science supposed to work?

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

Policy changes according to newfound knowledge about developments in the real world. How novel.

Gotta wonder what those unproductive public sector employees will come up with next, huh? It's crazy.

[Antipatros]

Experience is how you get career politicians.

I really don't think I'm asking for a lot here. I'm not asking for him to have a degree in political science or economics from Princeton, or extensive experience in other levels of government.

I'm asking for a certain level of life experience. It doesn't matter to me if that comes from work, school, or military service.

[Senkaku]

Our understanding of the facts does change over time, though. How else is science supposed to work?

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

yes god forbid you ever make any kind of sacrifice to help your countrymen; I can't even imagine the tantrum we'd get if you ever got drafted

[Merrill]

Facts don't change. That's the definition of a fact.

Fact: the Moon is a tumbling disc of condensed fiery aether, suspended from the dome of heaven about ten thousand cubits above the highest peaks of the Carpathian Mountains (and anyone who says otherwise is lying to you! nothing can change our scientific certainty of this!)

That wasn't a fact, since it was incorrect.

Now, if you want the American public to trust "The Science" again, then a good first start would be for Fauci, and the head of the CDC to hold a press conference, resign their positions, apologize for everything they got wrong over the last 18 months +, and apologize for lying to the Senate.

Ritual suicide would be even better, but scientists working for the government aren't that honorable.

[Antipatros]

Our understanding of the facts does change over time, though. How else is science supposed to work?

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

Our understanding of how SARS-CoV-2 spreads and affects human health has definitely changed over time. There are lots of people who have worked very hard to gather data and publish studies for many months now. The information we get from those studies gets aggregated and synthesized by public health authorities in order to make policy recommendations.

[Galloism]

Let's not reinvent history.

Fauci recommended against masks because the average person fiddling with and touching them would likely have a greater risk of infection than if they weren't wearing masks at all. Now that's ridiculous, but it was what was said at the time.

That was Azar who said that. Even in your article it mentions it and Fauci directing people to the CDC. 45 was more interested in politics and the pandemic.

Directly from the article:

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, an immunologist and a public face of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, on CBS’ “60 Minutes” earlier this month. He, like the others, suggested that masks could put users at risk by causing them to touch their face more often.

Let’s not just randomly assert things contradicting the source article without evidence, shall we?

Notably, it links to a cbs news article as a Source:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing ... 020-03-08/

It’s entitled:

March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

And it says:

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

So again, I’d like to ask people to stop reinventing history.

[Senkaku]

Fact: the Moon is a tumbling disc of condensed fiery aether, suspended from the dome of heaven about ten thousand cubits above the highest peaks of the Carpathian Mountains (and anyone who says otherwise is lying to you! nothing can change our scientific certainty of this!)

That wasn't a fact, since it was incorrect.

Says you! As far as we know from measurements taken at the megalithic sundials in Syene, Antioch, Gades, and Panticapaeum, this measurement is accurate to within the length of two goats! I don't think anyone will ever be able to undertake a more exhaustive investigation and uncover anything new here.

Now, if you want the American public to trust "The Science" again, then a good first start would be for Fauci, and the head of the CDC to hold a press conference, resign their positions, apologize for everything they got wrong over the last 18 months +, and apologize for lying to the Senate.

If I wanted the American public to trust science "again", the only step would be to kill most of the American public

Ritual suicide would be even better, but scientists working for the government aren't that honorable.

now that would spice up the C-SPAN viewing experience a bit

[Merrill]

Facts don't change. That's the definition of a fact. If politicians are going to make policy based on "The Science", they have a responsibility to actually understand it, and communicate it accurately. When the poster boy for politized science lies to the Senate, why should American citizens obey him?

True, facts don't change, but as we learn more facts about something new, and lest we forget, COVID is something new, we're going to stumble and self-correct and receive new advice as we learn more about how to face this virus.

Based on the #s from the US government (just to give you a source YOU trust), the death rate for Covid-19 is now 0.0019. That means it is less that point 2 percent lethal. You may be willing to bully someone into giving up their bodily integrity for something that is so minimally dangerous. I am not.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm 643,858 deaths so far,
out of 332,731,490 https://www.census.gov/popclock/

Being compelled to put a substance into your body or lose your job? That's not oppression?

In this instance, it is not. By refusing to do what's necessary to keep this virus away, we put those who do follow the rules at risk, especially with Delta in the US and MU just arriving in California over the last week or so. By maintaining one's freedom not to get a vaccine, they are endangering the freedoms of others to live without debilitating conditions like long COVID or long-term lung damage, and indeed, taking away the freedoms of others to live.

[San Lumen]

Experience is how you get career politicians.

I really don't think I'm asking for a lot here. I'm not asking for him to have a degree in political science or economics from Princeton, or extensive experience in other levels of government.

I'm asking for a certain level of life experience. It doesn't matter to me if that comes from work, school, or military service.

No. Age , residency and citizenship requirements should be all you need to run for office.

[Merrill]

Those aren't N-95 masks. Their just normal paper masks. Just because it looks like a medical grade mask doesn't mean that it is.

Here's the list of NIOSH approved N95 masks: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/N95list1.html

Here's Lowe's respiratory protection product list: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Respiratory-protection-Safety/721068286897

You can cross-compare these two lists to figure out what's what.

Okay. $2.00 per mask is still a little pricey, but nice to see they are actually available to the public now. Thanks for the information.

However, my issue is much more with the politicians than the scientists. Since the masks that work are available, why are the bullshit cloth ones still acceptable under the mandates? If the government is going to infringe on liberty, shouldn't it be for something that works? This is why to so many of us it's just theatre. We have all these infringements that don't actually help, to combat a "pandemic" that's now down to a POINT 2 PERCENT death rate. That's right, not 2%, 0.2%!!!

[Shrillland]

Here's the list of NIOSH approved N95 masks: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/N95list1.html

Here's Lowe's respiratory protection product list: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Respiratory-protection-Safety/721068286897

You can cross-compare these two lists to figure out what's what.

Okay. $2.00 per mask is still a little pricey, but nice to see they are actually available to the public now. Thanks for the information.

However, my issue is much more with the politicians than the scientists. Since the masks that work are available, why are the bullshit cloth ones still acceptable under the mandates? If the government is going to infringe on liberty, shouldn't it be for something that works? This is why to so many of us it's just theatre. We have all these infringements that don't actually help, to combat a "pandemic" that's now down to a POINT 2 PERCENT death rate. That's right, not 2%, 0.2%!!!

Polio has a 0.1% death rate, yet we still treat it deadly serious.

[Senkaku]

We have all these infringements that don't actually help, to combat a "pandemic" that's now down to a POINT 2 PERCENT death rate. That's right, not 2%, 0.2%!!!

what's 0.2% of ~330 million

[Merrill]

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

Policy changes according to newfound knowledge about developments in the real world. How novel.

Gotta wonder what those unproductive public sector employees will come up with next, huh? It's crazy.

Did you read what I wrote? They KNEW who was at risk! They could have told THOSE persons to lockdown, and targeted relief to help them, while everyone else lived normally. Instead, EVERYONE had to act as if we were all at risk, when we weren't.

[Shrillland]

We have all these infringements that don't actually help, to combat a "pandemic" that's now down to a POINT 2 PERCENT death rate. That's right, not 2%, 0.2%!!!

what's 0.2% of ~330 million

660,000.

[Merrill]

"

F***ing infectious disease protocols have NOT changed in this pandemic. Everything that actually works has been known for decades. The information that changed was how serious Covid-19 is. We were told "Two weeks to flaten the curve". Six weeks later we were allowed to partially open up with massive restrictions.
However, in that same six weeks the data went from "OMG, we're all going to die!", to "We actually know who is at risk, but we are going to completely upend normal life for everyone".

yes god forbid you ever make any kind of sacrifice to help your countrymen; I can't even imagine the tantrum we'd get if you ever got drafted

Depends, is it an actual war with a real threat?

[Galloism]

what's 0.2% of ~330 million

660,000.

So world war 2.

[Antipatros]

I really don't think I'm asking for a lot here. I'm not asking for him to have a degree in political science or economics from Princeton, or extensive experience in other levels of government.

I'm asking for a certain level of life experience. It doesn't matter to me if that comes from work, school, or military service.

No. Age , residency and citizenship requirements should be all you need to run for office.

You can run as a 24 year old with no life experience (as he did). I'm not voting for you, though. I don't think other people should vote for you either, but if they want to do that I guess you're on your way to crafting the rules that all of us must obey.

[Shrillland]

Policy changes according to newfound knowledge about developments in the real world. How novel.

Gotta wonder what those unproductive public sector employees will come up with next, huh? It's crazy.

Did you read what I wrote? They KNEW who was at risk! They could have told THOSE persons to lockdown, and targeted relief to help them, while everyone else lived normally. Instead, EVERYONE had to act as if we were all at risk, when we weren't.

Even those who weren't at high risk for death were and still are at risk for Long COVID due to the lung damage it causes. I've had COVID, I got it in late February 2020, and I still have a harder time with seasonal allergies than before because my lungs can't handle phlegm like they could before the disease. We may not all be at risk of death, but with Delta now affecting children, we are all at risk for long-term damage.