American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[San Lumen]

https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local ... r-governor

Hawaiʻi’s former First Lady Vicky Cayetano has announced she will run for Governor next year. Her husband served as governor from 1994 to 2002.

Only three first spouses of US states have been elected governor. Nellie Tayloe Ross (Wyoming 1925-1927) the first female governor in US history and only woman to date to serve as Governor of Wyoming , Miriam "Ma" Ferguson of Texas who served two non consecutive terms from 1925 to 1927 and 1933 to 1935.

Lurleen Wallace of Alabama was the third. She served from January 1967 to May 1968 and is the only female governor in US history to die in office.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Btw, what has happened with Ruddy and Sidney Powell? Are they up for prosecution or what has happened with that?

[Ifreann]

Btw, what has happened with Ruddy and Sidney Powell? Are they up for prosecution or what has happened with that?

I think Rudy melted.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Btw, what has happened with Ruddy and Sidney Powell? Are they up for prosecution or what has happened with that?

I think Rudy melted.

And Sidney was eaten by the Kraken?

[Tarsonis]

people aren't entitled to jack shit, beyond life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Why, because some old paper written by some dead old elites says so?

No. Poverty is the natural state of man. You're not owed anything. You're not entitled to anything. Nobody has to give you anything.

You don't work, you don't eat. That's a fundamental reality.

[Tarsonis]

That's not libertarianism, that's reality.

Under capitalism yes, the reality that libertarians defend.

No, that's the natural state of exististence.

[Kilobugya]

Under capitalism yes, the reality that libertarians defend.

No, that's the natural state of exististence.

Capitalism is completely artificial - it requires the very artificial concept of property, especially of property of means of production, and a state to enforce it. "Natural", hunter-gatherer societies are mostly collectivists, sharing their limited wealth inside the tribe.

But anyway "natural" doesn't mean "good". Humans have the ability to artificially alter their environment, for good or for bad, and we definitely should use it for the better, like by granting everyone decent means of living, and working together to improve everyone's living conditions. All the opposite of capitalism.

[Merrill]

"Deserves got nothin to do with it".

If 4 men rob a businessman of $1000, take $200 each, and give $200 to a homeless person, have they committed a moral act? No! They stole, and a just Judge would sentence them the same as any other theft. If it is wrong for 4 guys to do it, what makes it right for the government to do the same?

This is the exact premise of Robin Hood.

The hero.

Nope! The modern perversion of Robin Hood has him “stealing from capitalists”. In the original, he stole from the Lords and the Church; ie, the only ones who were “Rich”! They got rich by confiscation. They took from everyone by force. The few merchants in the stories supported Robin.

The people were overtaxed by the false representatives of God, and by the bullies ruling them. Robin was simply issuing tax refunds!

[Vassenor]

This is the exact premise of Robin Hood.

The hero.

Nope! The modern perversion of Robin Hood has him “stealing from capitalists”. In the original, he stole from the Lords and the Church; ie, the only ones who were “Rich”! They got rich by confiscation. They took from everyone by force. The few merchants in the stories supported Robin.

The people were overtaxed by the false representatives of God, and by the bullies ruling them. Robin was simply issuing tax refunds!

And how does that make Trickle-Down Economics not bullshit?

Also "robbed the rich to feed the poor" doesn't appear in the legends of Robin Hood until a good century after the first appearance of the character, but go off.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Why, because some old paper written by some dead old elites says so?

No. Poverty is the natural state of man. You're not owed anything. You're not entitled to anything. Nobody has to give you anything.

You don't work, you don't eat. That's a fundamental reality.

And why is that?

[Michel Meilleur]

Why, because some old paper written by some dead old elites says so?

No. Poverty is the natural state of man. You're not owed anything. You're not entitled to anything. Nobody has to give you anything.

You don't work, you don't eat. That's a fundamental reality.

You're entitled to a bit more than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You're entitled to just treatment, to equal representation, to (to some extent) safety among, many, many other things.

Poverty is indeed the natural state of man, however, love is his natural drive and as a result of it, so is his desire to help and protect his neighbor like himself.

[Tarsonis]

No. Poverty is the natural state of man. You're not owed anything. You're not entitled to anything. Nobody has to give you anything.

You don't work, you don't eat. That's a fundamental reality.

And why is that?

Physics

[Tarsonis]

No. Poverty is the natural state of man. You're not owed anything. You're not entitled to anything. Nobody has to give you anything.

You don't work, you don't eat. That's a fundamental reality.

You're entitled to a bit more than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You're entitled to just treatment, to equal representation, to (to some extent) safety among, many, many other things.

You're entitled to just treatment but that's an extension of liberty. The rest are contrivances. Walk out into nature and see just how entitled to safety you are.

Poverty is indeed the natural state of man, however, love is his natural drive and as a result of it, so is his
desire to help and protect his neighbor like himself.

Sure, but a drive to do something =/= being entitled to receive it.

[Michel Meilleur]

You're entitled to just treatment but that's an extension of liberty. The rest are contrivances. Walk out into nature and see just how entitled to safety you are.

You missed on the "to some extent". You're entitled to safety from your fellow man, not from nature, and that is indeed a natural impulse of man toward his neighbors to both help them and protect both him and them from each other.

Sure, but a drive to do something =/= being entitled to receive it.

It is tho. You're entitled to help and to receive help. It's part of being made in the image of God.

[Proctopeo]

That's not libertarianism, that's reality.

Under capitalism yes, the reality that libertarians defend.

Under communism, too. Basically every economic system, really, ignoring the fantastical bullshit that exists only on paper and in fantasy.

as the GOP meltdown continues, Rep. Madison Cawthorn files bill to "gut OSHA"


they fucking hate to be on the losing side of a culture war issue this ill-placed holy shit

i mean i'd be mad too if it wasn't saving hundreds of thousands of lives but still

Seems like a bit of an overreaction, given that the proposed rule change is very likely to get ripped apart in the courts. Still, a reassessment of the extent and enforcement of OSHA's rules could be in order.

Something funny I found in the recommendations. Can we at least get back the media freakout every time the President says anything? It was obnoxious, but I'm starting to see the upsides.

[Grave_n_idle]

Can we at least get back the media freakout every time the President says anything? It was obnoxious, but I'm starting to see the upsides.

That still happens.

Do you mean can we get back to the sorts of freakouts we were seeing under the last administration? Because there's a reason that level of fervor has died down...

[Proctopeo]

Can we at least get back the media freakout every time the President says anything? It was obnoxious, but I'm starting to see the upsides.

That still happens.

Do you mean can we get back to the sorts of freakouts we were seeing under the last administration? Because there's a reason that level of fervor has died down...

There is indeed. The President has the "correct" letter next to his name, so most of the corporate media outlets refrain from criticizing him.

[Grave_n_idle]

There is indeed. The President has the "correct" letter next to his name...

No. That's not it - Trump is, after all, famously also a Democrat.

[Corrian]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-10/democrats-motivated-poll-finds-gavin-newsom-might-easily-survive-california-recall

new California recall poll has remain leading 60-38. We could very well know the outcome on Tuesday night. NSG decision desk with me and Shrilland will have full coverage along with the Boston and Cleveland primaries and the two state legislative special in Iowa and Tennessee.

I noticed Democrats seemed to start taking the thing seriously. The polling never should have been that close in California of all places.

[Proctopeo]

There is indeed. The President has the "correct" letter next to his name...

No. That's not it - Trump is, after all, famously also a Democrat.

He wasn't at the time, however. If you look at his party membership history, he's generally been a member of the party opposite the one currently in charge.

To circle back to my point, if Trump were a Democrat, but his policies were largely unchanged, MSNBC and the like would've treated him like FOX did in OTL.

[Neutraligon]

And why is that?

Physics

Physics says nothing about the natural state of man.

[San Lumen]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-10/democrats-motivated-poll-finds-gavin-newsom-might-easily-survive-california-recall

new California recall poll has remain leading 60-38. We could very well know the outcome on Tuesday night. NSG decision desk with me and Shrilland will have full coverage along with the Boston and Cleveland primaries and the two state legislative special in Iowa and Tennessee.

I noticed Democrats seemed to start taking the thing seriously. The polling never should have been that close in California of all places.

Democrats need to start taking every election seriously. That includes municipal and special elections.

[Genivaria]

Under capitalism yes, the reality that libertarians defend.

No, that's the natural state of exististence.

The natural state of existence is working for a wage? Don't be ridiculous.
We produce far more with our modern technology than our ancestors could've dreamed of and yet we throw away more food every year in the United States than we consume simply because it's not profitable to give it to the hungry.
We don't NEED the profit motive, in fact we are being restrained by it.

[Punished UMN]

No, that's the natural state of exististence.

The natural state of existence is working for a wage? Don't be ridiculous.
We produce far more with our modern technology than our ancestors could've dreamed of and yet we throw away more food every year in the United States than we consume simply because it's not profitable to give it to the hungry.
We don't NEED the profit motive, in fact we are being restrained by it.

No, but the natural state of our existence is to work. The problem with wage labor is that it is exploitative, but labor will exist under communism.

[Page]

So? People who aren’t veterans also deserve a life too ya know

"Deserves got nothin to do with it".

If 4 men rob a businessman of $1000, take $200 each, and give $200 to a homeless person, have they committed a moral act? No! They stole, and a just Judge would sentence them the same as any other theft. If it is wrong for 4 guys to do it, what makes it right for the government to do the same?

Depends on how rich the businessman is and depends what business he is in.

Personally if I committed such a robbery, which I would not do but mainly for reasons of self preservation rather than moral hang ups, I would give half to the homeless and I would spend the rest doing something with people I care about that makes them happy.